That's interesting Tom. I have the opposite set-up- fixed antenna (4228HD) for TO and rotored antenna for BUF (stacked 4221HDs). I rarely use the rotor for BUF since it's peaked for FOX 29 which is one of the most weakest.

It also depends what stations you want to get and how close you are to the CHCH tower. If want to get the more difficult BUF stations (WNYO and ION), you'll have to go with the beast- the 91XG, but maybe the DB-8 would be fine.

I think two DB-8s would be fine, but maybe a little overkill for TO- maybe just a CM 4221HD for TO- it's a very good medium sized antenna (less weight on tower too) and it is easier to hack then the 4228HD. I don't think you'll have a ganging problem with different antennas, just make sure they are 3 feet or more apart- I've done it successfully.

Sorry if this is not straightforward, but there are many things you could do.

What is your closest intersection and how does your TV fool report look?

Thanks guys. Goforit - I'm just to the east of the Queenston traffic circle. At the moment I'm leaning towards the idea of using a fixed db4 aimed at T.O. and a fixed db8 for Buffalo just to get the ball rolling. Whether or not I put a rotor up now or wait and do it in the spring remains to be decided.

I have yet to even break the ground to put the tower up, so I do have options and a fair bit of thinking to do yet. Since each side of a tower is offset by 120 degrees, I'm assuming that if I can get the orientation of it right I should be pretty much able to mount fixed antennas to the side of the tower to handle Toronto and Buffalo. No?

Of course doing something goofy like this could present tower installation issues since it's a bracketed tower. I have a welder and I'm a fairly creative sort, so I can't forsee anything I can't deal with. My goal is to try and get it as close to right the first time around, rather than wasting a bunch of cash and time. So I'm all ears.

Here's the TV Fool for here. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dbc27436bca1510

Dead Short,

Just my opinion,..

If your trying to avoid wasting a bunch of cash, I would recommend buying Channel Master antennas right up front instead of wasting the time and expense on trial & error of what has already been proven. I have tried many things with many antennas and I can say as a matter of fact that db's are junk.

Mounting the antenna directly on the side of the tower may throw a big unpredictable wrench into the mix. The side of the tower may act as an untuned vertical reflector. You'd be much further ahead to use a mast atop the tower as, height is generally the biggest reception advantage.

Another thing to remember is that the chch tower is only about 2 miles away from you at 155deg SSE and most of the New York stations are 40+ miles beyond the CHCH tower are in the same general SSE direction. In your case using a pre-amp will be a tuner overload factor.

Thanks for the input OTA Canuck. I'm actually using the term DB-whatever rather loosely as I intend to use home brewed antennas. I figure I may as well roll my own since using the currently available CM4221 and 4228's will require modding anyway to achieve optimum performance.

I was wondering about the effect that the tower may have on things. If I do mount to the side of the tower, I had been planning to use some sort of standoffs to put some distance between the tower and antenna(s).

I definitely don't want to stick two antennas of this design up on a mast, in fear of a failure. I seem to remember reading that the CM4228 has a surface area of 1.5 sq ft which would put me right on the borderline of what I'm willing to expect the tower to handle if I put two of them up there. I've experienced a mast failure once before (many moons ago) due to my own ignorance and it wasn't a pretty sight. I'll have 20' of tower above the house bracket as it is and the thoughts of a tower failure, well that's just sickening. :eek:

I'd never thought of the CHCH transmitters being between me and Buffalo. Thanks for that (I think). I guess that answers any questions in respect to using preamps.

Anybody else got a monkey wrench they'd care to toss into the equation?

Dead Short: I looked at you TV Fool report and it's not too bad- Fox 29 looks receivable. I'm 2.5 miles from the CHCH tower and had my experiences with overload. I would go with a YAGI to avoid the tower as much as possible- it's a laser beam- the 91XG is the best one for about 75 plus tax. The CM 4228HD is not good unless you hack it. I think the 4-bay (CM or AD) will do for TO. For pre-amps, first start without one, and then if you are going to use one, it might be the CM 7778 or the Winegard HDP-269. I have also heard very good things about the Kitztech amp and pre-amp. But before this, I would use a UVSJ splitter to attentuate the CHCH analog signal, this should help lessen the possibility for overload. Alternatively, you could try a drop amp, which I will soon use and report my findings, with and without the UVSJ splitter.

Dead Short: I looked at you TV Fool report and it's not too bad- Fox 29 looks receivable. After taking the time to have a good look at it Buffalo isn't where I thought it was in relation to Toronto either, closer to 90 degrees apart rather than the 120 I had figured previously. Buffalo looks to be 10 or so degrees to the east of the CHCH towers so hopefully I'll manage to squeek by. It'd be nice to think that a preamp will be an option I can get by without but if need be I may just consider a notch filter to deal with CHCH on the Buffalo side and use the T.O. side for CHCH instead. At least it sounds good anyway. heh heh.

I intend to use home brewed antennasI'd go with an SBGH with NARODS for Toronto VHF & UHF stations and a DBGH for Buffalo UHFs. The Hamilton stations will come in on both/either of those antennas through the back or side lobes.

After taking the time to have a good look at it Buffalo isn't where I thought it was in relation to Toronto either, closer to 90 degrees apart rather than the 120 I had figured previously. Buffalo looks to be 10 or so degrees to the east of the CHCH towers so hopefully I'll manage to squeek by. It'd be nice to think that a preamp will be an option I can get by without but if need be I may just consider a notch filter to deal with CHCH on the Buffalo side and use the T.O. side for CHCH instead. At least it sounds good anyway. heh heh.
In my current set-up, I am NOT using a pre-amp and get all Buffalo, except WNYO which comes in every other night, and ION which comes once in a while.

Just bought a anntennas direct c2 ,trying to get buffalo hd stations. I live on top of the mountain.

Which direction do I point for the best results?
Thank you

I'd go with an SBGH with NARODS for Toronto VHF & UHF stations and a DBGH for Buffalo UHFs. The Hamilton stations will come in on both/either of those antennas through the back or side lobes. Ya, I'm considering a DBGH. Still in the tinkering stage and a xBGH is next on the list. Anything in the direction of the CHCH transmission towers is just blasting down here but at 70 miles with the escarpment in the way, Buffalo is proving to be a challenge. Much to my surprise I was even pulling 2 channels out of Kitchener today with my test bed M4.

Patches - Head over to TVFool and do yourself up a map. Buffalo should be somewhere to the south and somewhat east of you but I can't tell you for sure without knowing your exact coordinates..

Patches - I just had a look at the C2 you bought. Buffalo is 70 miles from here, give or take a couple. With the C2's advertised range of 50 miles, you may be disappointed with it's overall performance.

Patches - I just had a look at the C2 you bought. Buffalo is 70 miles from here, give or take a couple. With the C2's advertised range of 50 miles, you may be disappointed with it's overall performance.
I've installed the C2 before, it works a little better than the 4221hd which is advertised for 45 mile range and people regularly use it for 90+ miles with a pre-amp.

Patches, follow the step-by-step instructions in Post #10 of the OTA FAQ and then post the link to your TVFool results here in this thread.

Tom - At Rymal and Upper James, the CHCH transmitter isn't that far off compass from Buffalo and no more than 5 or so miles away. Wouldn't a pre-amp just make CHCH an even bigger obstacle to overcome?

Stampeder - Is there any merit in plugging various antenna heights into TV Fool in an effort to try and come up with a theoretically ideal antenna height? Or in your opinion would it just be a waste of time and best to use the age old trial and error method to find the right mix?

Depends on what pre-amp- CM7777 probably overload, HDP-269 less overload chances. Got to try the antenna first w/o the amp- higher always better. Good Luck!

any merit in plugging various antenna heights into TV FoolIts always worth a try, except that TVFool cannot account for very local multipath or obstruction loss-contributors like large trees, the neighbour's aluminum siding, etc. Even so, a difference of 10 feet might show up as a benefit in the NM fields of the desired stations.

This thread is full of great TVFool tips and gotchas:

TVFool Canadian Discussion (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=103476)

Just bought a anntennas direct c2 ,trying to get buffalo hd stations. I live on top of the mountain.

Which direction do I point for the best results?
Thank you
Patches, I'm at Upper James and Stone Church. Getting 23 HD channels in total with an HD4221 pointed at Buffalo and an HD4220 pointed towards Toronto.

To get the Buffalo channels you need to point south-east from your home. This would be pointing in the same general direction as the Linc east.

The aim to get Buffalo signals is not all the same direction- FOX, PBS, CW, and ION are more easterly, while ABC, NBC, CBS are more south-east, MyTV (WNYO) is between these two areas. WNYB (religious channels 26.1, 26.2) is more south. Many of these signals are very strong so aiming is not a big issue- just aim east, but during poor atmospheric conditions, you might need to re-aim the antenna to get max signal. Also, FOX, WNYO, and ION can be very finicky- I would "peak" your antenna for FOX 29 WUTV (RF 14.1), which is just below Niagara Falls, and the other BUF stations should come in.