Okay, sounds like this requires a professional installer. I really can't tinker with this as I live in Kitchener and my Mom lives in Hamilton.

Okay, sounds like this requires a professional installer. I really can't tinker with this as I live in Kitchener and my Mom lives in Hamilton.
Keep in mind that an installer is not going to be so willing to spend much time getting familar with the reception possibilitys [using trial & error techniques] for your location as you would,... and only you know what stations you really want to capture.

Screen your installer before you hire him. If your installer does not know what tvfool is,... then that would likley be a good indication that he is not a professional installer and he is likely to be unwilling to take the time to provide you with the best possible reception capability. Do not use any installer that charges hourly rates.

I don't think tvfool will help. It doesn't take into account local buildings.

Here is a view from down the street of my mom's place to see what I'm dealing with.

http://datalore.ca/sandbox/ZZ2265A7CC.jpg

Tried a yagi antenna about 22ft off the ground. I could get some Buffalo stations, but the Toronto stations are in direct line of some big steel factory plants that are made out of metal. I think it's creating a reception void - sort of like having a mountain in front of you.

No digital channels from the CN Tower - just CBC 5.1/20. And all the analog channels had lots of snow in them.

I think the only way to get TO is to erect a tall tower to get height necessary to clear the steel factory blocking the signals.

You definitely need to get higher than the house next to you- need tower.

Alternatively, you could try changing your position from different sides of the house- back, side, front, etc. and see if it makes a difference.

Others have also had success with tilting the antenna slightly up.



Nice to see you get digital CBC- Leaf games on Saturday night (and NHL playoffs) are in beautiful HD.

Anyone here on Sanford South in Hamilton near Delaware, I saw a yagi and others on the roof and I wonder what kind of reception your getting.

John

Hi folks- I'm new here to the forum, and have been doing plenty of research here...lots of great info. to be had here.

I'm planning on turfing (or downgrading my cable)and setting up an OTA system (I have limited experience in a deep fringe area at our cottage).

I've read what some others in the area have...and here is what I'm considering.

Two ganged DB4's or CM4221HD's (hacked), roof mounted (j pole with 10' extension). One pointed N/NE(toronto/hamilton) and the other south (Buffalo)with tweaking of course. Pre-amp - (CM7778 , CM7778 or Ant Direct PA-18, with a Winegard 7780 coupler. Will want to feed 3 TV's (one is HDTV), so I don't want to use a rotator (so we can watch from more than 1 TV at a time). Still need to figure out the to box set-ups.
I don't see much on the DB4's (or DB8's) here...most of the info. is on the CM products.
Any comments/advice are much appreciated.

Here's my TV fool info...
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dbc271021544010

Thanks/Regards...Greg

Welcome:

tmodem is from Brantford and has had some OTA success- see earlier posts in this thread- see what he is getting for TO and BUF/ERIE.

As you may already know- you will be somewhat limited with a roof-top set-up- the higher the better.

I would go with a DB-8 or 91XG- these are the heavy hitters for deepest fringe. The 4221HD has great beam width, but lacks the pull of the big guys. Alternatively, you could try a VHF/UHF combo since it looks like you could pull in Erie 12- which I believe has 2 sub-channels. The CM 7777 is the highest gain pre-amp you can get and is rock solid, and which you will probably need since you will be splitting the signal 3-ways.

Sorry if this is not a straightforward answer- but it depends on what channels you want to get, where you are located, and how much time/$$ you want to put into it.

Thanks Goforit,
I reviewed some of tmodems posts, with his HD4221 application. I'm trying to stay away from a uni direction ant., becase we could have several people watching different channels at the same time. From what I've read, the CM4228HD and DB-8 have greater gain, but a smaller beam width than the DB-4 or CM4221HD. I'm only basing this on comments I've read, as I haven't come accross any spec/gain charts, etc (as of yet). Any idea if there is some actual test data comparing the CM4228HD to the DB-8 or the CM4221HD to the DB-4. I've seen the hack posts, but not much in the way of comparison test data.

Thanks again...

The DB-8 has higher gain than the unmodified 4228HD and the 4221HD. And I think I little wider beam than the 4228HD. You could have one DB-8 aimed for TO and one aimed for BUF. The 4228HD (unmodified) is terrrible for high UHF (see TO stations). Gain charts of all these antennas are somewhere in this forum.

Yep, you can look up the gain comparisons here:

UHF Antenna Gain Comparison Charts (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=100058)

and you can see Ken Nist's great comparison analyses at the hdtvprimer.com site. For your situation in Brantford you are likely going to need 2 antennas, or maybe a third one on a rotor for DXing if you get that hobby bug. ;)

Hi gbswiercz!! Everyone on this forum has been a great help to me. Goforit gave me a ton of advice.

Whereabouts in Brantford are you?

Lately, Ive been having very good luck with my CM 4221HD, CM7778 and a rotor. Most Buffalo stations come in just fine. On rare occasions CW, WKBW and WGRZ are weak, but tweakable with the rotor...FOX and WNED are near impossible!! Erie is only on Tropo days (and I was using the 4228 at the time). CBC is about all I can get from TO (sometimes CITY), though I do pick up Global, CTV, TVO etc in ANALOGUE...YECCH!!@.

Right now I'm doing the mod on my 4228 HD. I may try ganging the two. Point the 4228 on Buffalo and leave the 4221 on the rotor. Not sure it will work, but I've got both antennas, so I might as well try. Hoping that when the 2 are pointed at Buffalo, I will pick up some extra gain. If I were to start over I probably would have started out with the 91XG

Overall, I'd say I'm about 90% successful in watching the shows, I want to watch.

Hi tmodem,

I agree, lots of great advice and posts here....

I'm in Echo Place (moved back here to "the hood" after years in the north end). I've read your posts on the 4221's. Hacked, this seems like a good antenna (same with the 4228HD - when hacked). I'm looking to gang a couple of antennas, as I don't want to use a rotor, and the 4221HD seems to be better suited for this than the 4228HD (although with less gain).
Puzzling about the TO stations. I would figure that we should be able to rec. them here (even with the 4221HD), but I guess there's not enough gain there. I've been trying to get a better read on the DB-8 and DB4, as they don't seem to be as popular/respected as the CM products (the new DB8 is a "wreck", like the 4228HD, though it can't be fixed according to Ken Nist. I wanted to support a North American manufacturer (Antennas Direct)and there are great deals for the DB-4 online, but if it's really inferior to the 4221HD it's not worth it. Gain charts show that the HD4221 kills the DB-4. The DB8 seems to directional for what I'm planning (no rotator)

I have a lot to learn....cheers...Greg

Thanks for the link Stampeder....

If you are going to go with the 91XG, you will definitely need a rotor- it's very directional, but awesome gain.

If you are going to go with the 91XG, you will definitely need a rotor- it's very directional, but awesome gain.
I'm looking at the 91XG for our cottage up north (whenever the change to Digital occurs for the stations up North), but I have ruled it out for home as a rotator isn't in the works in Brantford (multiple TV's/family members). The DB-8 looks to me to be the best to possibly pick up the high freq. Toronto stations (per your post and the gain charts), unless the hacked 4228HD is better. For the Buffalo channels, the 4228HD looks better. I'll need two of each (again as you suggested), one for Toronto/Hamilton, one for Buffalo, unless it possible to gang two dissimilar antennas (say a 4228hd and a DB-8) in order to have the antenna with the best gain in a given frequency range pointed in a different direction (ie - the DB-8 for Toronto, the 4228HD for Buffalo). This doesn't seem to be accepted practise, even with enough sufficient "seperation" of the antennas.

I have to study a lot more in the thread archives to sort this out.

Thanks....

If you are going to go with the 91XG, you will definitely need a rotor- it's very directionalFor Brantford or your cottage up north it would have to be a very good quality (ham radio perhaps) rotor since today's typical TV antenna rotors are probably a bit too vague in their braking for such a directionally sensitive antenna to perfectly aim every time over such a great distance. You can research them here, gbswiercz: ROTORS: Channel Master, Nexxtech/Archer, Yaesu, Hy-Gain, Zenith, Others (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=41103)

Hi Greg, Welcome aboard (even if you are from the "gritty" end of town :-) Just kidding. Great to see someone from the city!

I don't have any experience with the AntennaDirect stuff, but everything, everyone has said about the un-modded CM stuff is true. I found the CM4228HD about equal, or slightly worse, than the 4221 for Buffalo, but much better for picking up Erie. I was not able to pick up anything from Toronto except CBC. CITY comes in better with the 4221.

Stampeder pointed out to me that DTV from Toronto is pretty much impossible here in Brantford, no matter what gear you use. They are just way too LOW powered for the distance. Tropo days only for stations like Global and Omni..at least until the switchover in 2011. Concentrate on maximizing Buffalo for now. CHCH and Sun are 100% no matter where you point.

YOU WILL NEED A PRE-AMP!! I'm using the 7778 right now. The 7777 may be better because of the extra 3db. I also had pretty good results with a GE distro amp.

Lots of old towers in Brantford, so hopefully you have one, as I think the higher the better for this area. There's a guy on North Park/Charing Cross with a 4228 on a 60ft tower. He probably gets really good reception

I've tried stacking 2 4221's but it actually was worse than a single 4221. I'm modding my 4228 right now, so I'm hoping to try it ganged with the 4221 this weekend.

I haven't found the silver bullet yet (for 100% reception, 100% of the time), but I'm pretty happy with the performance of the 4221HD so far.

Keep your head up tmodem- it took my a very long time (8 months) to get a set-up that I was satisfied with, and I'm still tweaking. I recently got a 3-way splitter for a third TV- I was very worried that signal strength would fall, but it didn't. Next, I might try a CM drop amp or a Kitztech amp to get WNYO and ION more consistently.

Cheers!

:cool:

I'm just in the early stages of putting together a system and am wondering what plan of attack would be best. On a good day I can see the CN Tower from the shore of Lake Ontario which is about 2 miles from here. About 100 degrees off of that is where I'll need to be aimed to pick up Buffalo. I can pull Toronto in with a mocked up 4 bay bowtie at ground level at about 40 miles away. Buffalo is about 55 miles and will need some height to get it done. I've been reading mclapp's bowtie thread and will probably end up working with his designs to build at least one 8 bay horizontal bowtie which will be on top of a 40' tower.

I'd prefer to use fixed antennas and some sort of signal combiner rather than a rotor (I'm lazy, so shoot me). And then there's the Bigger, Better and Badder bug we all know and love. If I put two fixed antennas up there I know darned well that pesky bug is gonna get me. So, I'm seriously considering one fixed antenna aimed at Toronto and perhaps putting the other on a rotor just so I can get at the stuff I think I don't care about now, and know darned well that I will see as a challenge down the road. heh heh.

And now the questions. What would be the best way to put multiple antennas up on a tower without them interfering with each other? Is it doable? I have no issues with hanging an antenna off of the side of the tower with stand-offs. Perhaps more than 2 antennas may be in order? One fixed antenna and another on a rotor? Opinions anyone?

I like the one fixed and one on a rotor plan. The fixed one pointed at buffalo, at the hardest to get stations. The rotor one above that can get toronto but can be moved to get stronger signal from buffalo when you need it for bad weather etc. Make sure they are in Phase.
I would use matching DB-8's if it were my choice, but if you're planning on building, make sure they match.