Yes, you could try stacking two 4221HDs- they can be very close together. This is what I did and get most BUF reliably.

If it was a 4228 HD and and 4221HD you need to space them 25" apart or more.

4.1 CBS is dropping out, goes to about 80 90 then down to 0. Any answers suggestions or fixes would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds like you have a strong enough signal for 4.1, but the problem may be that a delayed 4.1 signal is also being bounced or reflected from another source such as a nearby building or some other object in your area. Multipath of a broadcast will hamper the tuner's ability to deal with that signal. Try to , re-aim the antenna, raise height, lower height or try tilting the antenna slightly upward to avoid the source of the reflected/multipath signal.

Has anyone noticed that 9.1 is not broadcasting in the evenings. For the last few days I have had no problems with 9.1 during the day but after 7 or so I get no signal. 9.1 is one of my strongest signals, I still get the difficult Toronto stations like 41.1, 57.3 and 66.1.

John

Goforit, thanks for the advice and info. I like the setup you have and I think this might work for my situation in North Brantford.

On the weekend, I put the 4221 on the chimney, mounted to an 8' piece of emt. It's now roughly 30' in the air. Buffalo is coming in much better, almost 100% at night, but really drops off during the day. 40% to 0. Managed to get WUTV, Syracuse and Rochester a few times. Overall it's better, but not quite where I want it.

I'm thinking of stacking another 4221 below. Do you invert it from the top one (like a mirror image) or do you leave it straight up?

I currently have a distribution amp about 75ft down the coax. It helps considerabley, but would a pre-amp be better? If so, 7777 or 7778?

Also, I'm thinking of a 4228 for grabbing Toronto or would a rotor be better for just turning the stacked 4221's? Anything worth grabbing from Cambridge, Kitchener, London? Cost is about the same. I'm leaning towards a rotor.

Thanks again

Videoproducer...

Check out the sticky "OTA Station Status: Toronto, Hamilton"

CFTO has been on and off for the past few days.

Gobal and CTV= Cheapo
Would you expect anything different from them?

Cheers:

Bob

Goforit, thanks for the advice and info. I like the setup you have and I think this might work for my situation in North Brantford.

On the weekend, I put the 4221 on the chimney, mounted to an 8' piece of emt. It's now roughly 30' in the air. Buffalo is coming in much better, almost 100% at night, but really drops off during the day. 40% to 0. Managed to get WUTV, Syracuse and Rochester a few times. Overall it's better, but not quite where I want it.

I'm thinking of stacking another 4221 below. Do you invert it from the top one (like a mirror image) or do you leave it straight up?

I currently have a distribution amp about 75ft down the coax. It helps considerabley, but would a pre-amp be better? If so, 7777 or 7778?

Also, I'm thinking of a 4228 for grabbing Toronto or would a rotor be better for just turning the stacked 4221's? Anything worth grabbing from Cambridge, Kitchener, London? Cost is about the same. I'm leaning towards a rotor.

Thanks again
Depends on what channels you want to get. Many TO stations are on high UHF, and the 4221HD fares better than the 4228HD. If you have a 4221HD already- I would try to see what you can get from TO reliably with it. Then you can decide on a possible second antenna. Good UHF antennas for BUF would be the AD DB8 or the 91 XG.

Pre-amps are much better than distribution amps, 7777 is the more powerful than the 7778, if your cable length is not very long, about a 100 feet, I'd go with the 7778.

Thanks, I will try that. I read your thread on the 91xg and it seems like it really is the way to go, for reliable Buffalo viewing, from this area. CH seems to have a negative effect and you really need an antenna that focuses. Goal for me... is as many Buffalo stations, as reliably as possible. Toronto is gravy

Couple last questions, how did you stack your 4221's? Is the top one right side up and the bottom reversed or right side up? Does it matter? Probably not, as the pattern of the bow ties looks the same.

Is there a "buy and sell" on this forum? It would make it a lot more affordable for experimentation. Certain things might work better in some areas and we could all learn from our mistakes, while saving some dough. Just a thought.

Here's a pic of the 4221hdp://www.4shared.com/file/134667769/5759b000/Picture_100.html[/url]
http://www.4shared.com/file/134697832/34f04d21/Picture_102.html

:cool:

No trick in stacking the 4221HD- some do as close as possible, some do equal spacing of bow ties. Nothing reversed. Bear in mind it has worked for some while others saw no difference. I didn't find a huge improvement, just more stability.

I might have a 7778 kicking around you could tryout/buy.

Cheers!

Cool! I usually get my electronics from a store in Burlington. It's close to work and their prices are pretty good. A 7778 pre-amp is 89.95 plus tax, brand new, so let me know what you want for it and I'll take it off your hands.

[QUOTE=tmodem;986869]Couple last questions, how did you stack your 4221's? Is the top one right side up and the bottom reversed or right side up? Does it matter? Probably not, as the pattern of the bow ties looks the same.[QUOTE]

putting one antenna up-side-down is a really bad idea.

Thanks Tom! I won't try that :D

It has been very rare that I don't get 2.x, 4.1 and 7.1, usually consistent. ION on the other hand is never consistent.
What do you guys think if I put another 4221HD on the taller Buffalo mast?
Therefore, 2 stacked at Buffalo (left), 1 at Toronto (right, no change)?

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2570/img0971q.jpg

Ancaster, I just added a 4221 to my existing 4221 and I don't see any appreciable gain, on any of my Buffalo channels. You're a little closer so maybe that will help you.

I'm quite disappointed actually. WGRZ 2.x seems to be worse than when it was just a single 4221. Maybe I'm not doing something right. I've got equal length coax going to a combiner and the antennas are aligned. I had to lengthen the mast by 6 inches so the lower antenna could clear the top of the chimney. Maybe that's it.

Bottom line, is that the 56.49 investment wasn't worth it. I'm going to leave it for now and see if a 7778 pre-amp helps.

I have never been a fan of antenna stacking. I have read with interest those who've attempted it--but their results don't appear to be worth the effort or cost.

Sorry to hear that some stacks have not worked out well. A lot (all?) of what we do is trial and error, and what works in one location may not work in another. It took me many set-ups to get what I wanted. For some issues, it's just a little tweaking that makes a big difference, e.g., slight aiming, tilting, and raising/lowering the antenna, adding attenuators, notch filters, etc. Eventually you become the expert of your location.

That is very true Goforit! I finally got a break in the weather today and removed my 2nd 4221 from the mast. What a difference. Everything improved about 20%. The magic was not there for a vertically stacked array in North Brantford. Who knows why?..Maybe it was the cheap combiner, tropo, or the fact that I raised the antenna 6 inches. Was it worth it?

Probably!

Right now ...my best setup has been a 4221 mounted on an 8 ft mast, 35 feet in the air, with a GE CDN Tire Distro amp. All Buffalo stations come in at night... in a watchable fashion.

BTW I took the second 4221 to the other side of the house and I now have OTA TV on the basement TV :-)

anyone know exact azimuth to orient 2 uhf antennas one for Canadian and one for american stations.

looking at a map, Toronto should be roughly NE and buffalo should be roughly ESE

anyone know exact numbers

I am in stoney creek

ota_fan, follow the instructions in Post #10 of the OTA FAQ to generate your personal TVFool report so that you can see on a chart how to find the stations you want. Please post your TVFool report here so we can comment.

anyone know exact azimuth to orient 2 uhf antennas one for Canadian and one for american stations.

looking at a map, Toronto should be roughly NE and buffalo should be roughly ESE

anyone know exact numbers

I am in stoney creek
Using GoogleEarth and the arrow option (POI your house and the towers, draw a line), I was able to see my detailed roof in relation to my immediate neighbour's, running the arrow straight through to the CN Tower/First Canadian Place.
It's not as straightforward for NY because the towers are scattered. You could point somewhere between the NBC and ABC towers while somebody else checks the signal strengths on your TV. Pointing right at ION grabs the spread for me and it's my sensible option because ION is also the furthest I can receive.