Goforit: I'd be curious to know where on the East Mountain you're located, and which stations you're able to receive with just the CM4228?

I live near Upper Gage/Brucedale and currently have a 4228 setup in my spare bedroom, but I'm planning to get it onto the roof soon. From indoors I'm able receive most of the Toronto stuff, but nothing from Buffalo. I'm hoping that once the antenna is on the roof that I'll be able to point it towards Buffalo still get the Toronto stations without a rotor/preamp. Do you think this will be possible? I have the old-school 4228 without the plastic edges. TIA!
I wasn't able to get both wutv and wnyo to lock w/o the preamp. You'll get better reception once outside and higher is always better. Every location can be different- it will take some experimenting- hopefully you won't need the pre-amp with the 4228. I can't get all TO stations when aimed at BUF- some are very weak eg. GLOBAL 41.1.

Hello all.
I finally installed my antenna on my roof with the preamp. The height is approx. 40ft with the tripod and mast. The cable run is just under 90ft.
I receive all Toronto stations as well as all the Buffalo offerings. Signals range from high 70's to high 90's with the exception of Fox at around 60%. Iam finally off the HD grid. Thanks to my neighbour for helping me with the install. He is an OTA'er as well. Thanks to all on the forum for the great advice.:cool:

Thanks for the report backnblackgt and congratulations. Think of the money you'll be saving as well! Enjoy.

I wasn't able to get both wutv and wnyo to lock w/o the preamp. You'll get better reception once outside and higher is always better. Every location can be different- it will take some experimenting- hopefully you won't need the pre-amp with the 4228. I can't get all TO stations when aimed at BUF- some are very weak eg. GLOBAL 41.1.
Thanks for the info! I managed to strap my 4228 to the chimney last night and am now pulling in:

2.1 NBC BUffalo
5.1 CBC Toronto
7 ABC Buffalo (analogue)
9.1 CTV Toronto
11.1 E! Hamilton
15.1 SUN Toronto
17.1 PBS Buffalo
17.3 THINK
23.1 CW Buffalo
36.1 CTS Hamilton
41 GLOLBAL (analogue)
44.1 OMNI 2 Toronto
47 OMNI 1 (analogue)
57 City (analogue)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3658/3404446444_3709b3ef56_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3403635771_bd65206b8b_b.jpg

The antenna is currently pointed east, and as you can see it's actually mounted with the screen pressed against the chimney, so once I get another set of hands I should be able to get it up above the top of the chimney (too windy last night to try for any more alititude by myself :)).

I'm going to see if I can exchange my 3' tripod for a cm7777 at nutech today, so with any luck I'll get the rest of the digital channels without having to move the antenna any higher. I actually kind of like it where it is now though since it's very secure and doesn't get affected much by the wind...

Nice pics and results!

It's always great to see OTA gear and an original 4228 to boot!.

The pre-amp should help quite a bit.

You'll have to figure out where you will put the pre-amp, off chimney, in the attic, etc.

Experimenting with the aim could bring in more digital channels.

Higher is better, and you might see different reception results when your trees fill in.

Option- you could attach a ten foot mast off the chimney...

Where did you get your 4228?

Thanks for the compliment, it's great to know that some people still appreciate the beauty of a nice antenna. :)

I managed to do some more testing last night and had some very strange results. First I moved the antenna as high as I could with the current mounting position, and tried to point it towards the ABC/CBS broadcast tower indicated on TVFOOL. I've also realized that I should have bought a 10' mast, but since I've been doing this all on my own I went with a 5' so it would be easier to manouver on the roof...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3603/3406182977_268fb4f617_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3589/3406510791_8bb9a3fa33_b.jpg

With that change I was able to receive:

2.1 33.1 WGRZ-DT NBC Buffalo, NY
2.2 33.2 WGRZ-DT WTHR+ Buffalo, NY
4.1 39.1 WIBV-DT CBS Buffalo, NY
5.1 20.1 CBLT-DT CBC Toronto, ON
7.1 38.1 WKBW-DT ABC Buffalo, NY
11.1 18.1 CHCH-DT E! Hamilton, ON
15.1 15.1 CKXT-DT SUN Hamilton, ON
17.1 43.1 WNED-DT PBS-HD Buffalo, NY
17.2 43.2 WNED-DT PBS-SD Buffalo, NY
17.3 43.3 WNED-DT THINK Buffalo, NY
23.1 32.1 WNLO-DT CW Buffalo, NY
36.1 35.1 CITS-DT CTS Hamilton, ON
44.1 44.1 CJMT-DT OMNI2 Toronto, ON

The repositioning also caused me to lose CTV 9.1

I was very encouraged by these results, but I was still only getting 2-3 bars on ABC/CBS so then I tried installing the cm7777. I climbed the roof, disconnected my long run of RG6 from the balun, attached a 6' RG6 patch cable from the balun to the 'UHF or COMBINED' input on the cm7777, connected the long RG6 to the 'Output/Power' post, then went in side and made the final connections at the power supply and tuner. With fingers crossed I powered everything on and...

All my Buffalo channels dropped to 0 bars.

I wasn't sure if the preamp was working, so I tuned to CBC and cycled the power a few times and I did see a difference in signal strength, so I'm pretty sure the preamp was doing something. Just to make sure my patch cables weren't causing the problem I went back up to the roof, removed the preamp, and spliced the 6' RG6 to my long run with a female/female connecter I had. Then I checked the tuner again, and with the preamp power supply still inline (unplugged) the Buffalo stations all came back with about 2 bars...

Now I've heard that a preamp can potentially cause problems with receiving local channels (overload), but I'm not sure why it seems to be negatively affecting my reception of the long range signals?

BTW, how many different antenna positions do you need to use to pick up all of the broadcasts? Do you just have one position for Toronto and then it spins to another position to pick up everything from Buffalo? Or do you also need to adjust it to pick up the different Buffalo stations? (i.e. one position for CBS/ABC & different position for FOX?)

Oh, and I believe I bought the OG CM4228 from JohnnyG on this forum a few years ago, but I was living in a condo at the time so this is the first oppourtunity I've had to mount it outside.

I had really good results when I set up the 7777. Pre-amp 5-10 feet below antenna and then power injector 5 feet before TV. If the antenna is pointed towards abc, nbc,cbs area (south buffalo) all these stations should come in and some TO, butall Ham stations- could have been some dxing going on that caused some of your results- I noticed some of my channels were acting funny lately.

TV Fool is really good at pinpointing your location and showing the signal strength of each station, eg wkbw.

I did use TVFOOL to check the signal strength from each broadcaster at my location, and they all show similar results, so since I'm able to get ABC with my current setup I must be on the right track. I'm just not sure why I'm getting better reception of the Buffalo stations without the cm7777...

Is it possible I don't have the amp connected/configured correctly?

When I looked at the instructions last night there seemed to be a discrepency about how the device is set from the factory, so I'm worried it might not be functioning properly. I'm pretty sure the text on the amp itself says it's set as VHF/UHF combined from the factory, but in the instruction booklet I think it says that the amp is set 'VHF separate' from the factory...

It was getting dark by the time I got into troubleshooting mode, and I was already getting ABC for LOST last night so I didn't bother to actually open up the preamp and check how it's set.

Do I want it set as 'Combined' and then plug into the 'VHF/UHF' combined input?

Thanks for the advice goforit. Any pics of your setup? :)

Yah, I need to post some pics. I will soon be purchasing a second pre-amp to go with my second antenna system- two 4221HDs.

Try different inputs/setups and see what happens.

Nutech might be able to help.

I'll try and check my pre-amp and see what we did.

Well I just tried every preamp configuration I could think of and the results aren't good at all.

Measured on my Samsung DTB-H260F

No Preamp:
2.1 - 1/2 bars
2.2 - 1/2 bars
4.1 - 4 bars
5.1 - 4 bars
7.1 - 1/2 bars
11.1 - 10 bars (100%)
15.1 - 10 bars
17.1 - 5/6 bars
17.3 - 5/6 bars
23.1 - 7 bars
36.1 - 10 bars

Preamp switch to separate and cable on UHF post:
11.1 - 8/10 bars
15.1 - 10 bars
17.1 - 0/2 bars
17.3 - 0/2 bars
36.1 - 7 bars
everything else 0

preamp set to combined, cable on UHF post
5.1 - 4 bars
11.1 - 4/5 bars
15.1 - 4/5 bars
36.1 - 0/1 bar
everything else 0

preamp set to combined, cable on UHF post, 2 way splitter between preamp power supply and tuner:
11.1 - 7 bars
15.1 - 7 bars
everything else 0

The results look very odd to me, but if anyone has any suggestions about what's going on then please let me know. If I can't get this sorted out then I might have a new CM7777 available for cheap. :)

EDIT:
I just reviewed my results and it seems that maybe I'm getting overloaded? If that's the case then I guess my money would be better spent on a taller mast and a rotor, which should allow me to receive everything except FOX.

I don't believe that you are overloading.

If your using multiple [stacked or ganged] antennas, your anntennas may be phased in opposition to each other. If that is the case just simply reverse the balun wire connections on one of the antennas.

Otherwise, it looks like your power supply unit is not getting any voltage up to the preamp. If there is no power getting to the preamp, then the 7777hardware will attentuate rather than boost your overall signal from the antennas.

First test the power supply unit to see if it's putting out 18volts.

If there is no power getting to the preamp end of your cable, then check your cable termination connectors to make sure that the shield has continuity in order to carry the voltage from the power supply unit to the preamp at the antenna.

7777 Preamp configuration : Combined switch on, fm filter out, and then connect the antenna lead into the combined/uhf input.

Thanks for the tips.

I'm using a CM4228 which I guess could be considered stacked 4221s? I didn't realize that the balun could be connected backwards, but if the rain lets up this weekend then maybe I'll try reversing the connection.

The power supply seemd to at least be supplying some voltage, as I did notice different results when plugging/unplugging it while checking my signal strength.

I'll also try checking the output voltage. I did have the power supply plugged into a power bar, so maybe that was causing a problem.

I think the cm7777 factory set with FM TRAP 'IN' which I beileve means that it will filter out FM signals, but I'll give it another shot with the FM TRAP in the 'OUT' position and see what happens.

Thanks again guys, and it should also be interesting to see how today's rain will affect my reception...

In your particular case I don't believe there should be any concern of phase mismatch since you're not combining your CM4228 with any other antenna, right?I'm using a CM4228 which I guess could be considered stacked 4221s?The CM4228 uses a side-by-side ganging of 2 4221s for higher gain in a more concentrated reception pattern. That ganging makes it effectively one antenna, and the CM design itself prevents them from being out of phase, so again if you're not combining any other antenna with your CM4228 you have no worries and can go on to other debugging of your system.

BTW if you are using 2 antennas and you are trying to match their phasing here's a CM balun trick: it will say CHINA on one side and the other side will be blank - that's an important bit of info to keeping yourself from trying the same balun phase connection over and over again. ;)

Great Results! And that's with a 4221.

THIS is dead (for now).
CTV should be digital 9.1.

TVO won't probably go digital until they have to- 2011.

In your particular case I don't believe there should be any concern of phase mismatch since you're not combining your CM4228 with any other antenna, right?The CM4228 uses a side-by-side ganging of 2 4221s for higher gain in a more concentrated reception pattern. That ganging makes it effectively one antenna, and the CM design itself prevents them from being out of phase, so again if you're not combining any other antenna with your CM4228 you have no worries and can go on to other debugging of your system.

BTW if you are using 2 antennas and you are trying to match their phasing here's a CM balun trick: it will say CHINA on one side and the other side will be blank - that's an important bit of info to keeping yourself from trying the same balun phase connection over and over again. ;)
Nope, no other antennas. All I have is the single 4228, so thanks for ruling out that as a potential problem!

StreetPreacher do you have a digital DC volt meter? If so set it for the highest DC setting not AC since the power booster output only puts out DC voltage on the one side and not the other output. Stick in a paper clip with red lead on it and black on the side of where u tighten the wire too. You should see 18-22 volts dc if not try the other output one side will have voltage from the power supply only. U don't need to test the amp. I think you might have a dead power supply issue.

Hello all.
Now that I have my permanent setup completed, I would like to add a second set to my feed. What splitter/ distro amp if any or combination would I need to install after the preamp amplifier?
Your thoughts are always appreciated.
:D

backnblackgt, my advice is that before you try any reamplification just run a high quality splitter connection to the second TV using as little coax cable as possible in order to see if your preamp alone will do the trick. You'll know after that whether you need to look at other options. :)

My RG6 cable enters the house, then is split, one side going to my HD tuner (Older HD TV without tuner) the other goes to the the same TV to provide analog then out from there and goes to a 4 way splitter and provides signal to three other older TV's in the house. One of them having a digital converter box on.
We don't notice any problems providing my antenna is pointing in the correct direction and even then I am surprised that we can pull in strong channels from Toronto and Hamilton while pointing to Buffalo.

I never concerned myself about the length of cable runs and some of the cable isnt RG6 going the the other TV's in the bedrooms

Thsi is a great site! Hoiwever I am a bit lost and very NEW!
I am going to set up an 8 bay bowtie antenna on my bungalows roof in Ancaster, ON. I hope to receive Toronto and Buffalo signals but will have to wait and see! Can you direct me to info regarding hooking the OTA feed through my PC? Can you display and search through online channel guides lik Zap2it on the TV screen? If so How do I set this up?