TORONTO — A 4-year-old is wounded in a drive-by shooting. A teenager is shot to death at the funeral of a friend, also a victim of gunfire. A gunbattle between rival gangs kills a 15-year-old bystander and wounds six others in the heart of the downtown shopping district. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-01-02-toronto-guns_x.htm)

You can't blame this on guns coming from the US. That's a cop out. We need more police, more charges, and more jail time. I believe in the broken window approach to crime.

I have never thought of myself as the slightest bit racist but if I see a bunch of black teens with baggy pants etc coming towards me on a Toronto street I would cross the street to avoid them. That is sad.

More Liberal spin... not based in reality...but seems to work with Ontario voter's so what they hay...

PUBLICATION: GLOBE AND MAIL
DATELINE: Ottawa ONT

Prime Minister Paul Martin incorrectly blamed the United States for gun crime in Canada by using an unsubstantiated figure to assert that 50 per cent of this country’s gun crimes involve smuggled firearms, U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins said yesterday.

Mr. Wilkins said that Canadian officials admitted in meetings with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice this week “that that figure was just grabbed out of thin air.” He insisted the Canadian government should focus on joint efforts to combat gun-running rather than pointing fingers.

The figure, which others have used previously, is not based on any statistical study that could be traced by The Globe and Mail, and police forces and other authorities said yesterday it is not verifiable.

Many police experts say a substantial number of guns from the United States are used in crimes, but many cannot be traced. Weapons are often stolen or smuggled, but the RCMP, Justice Canada, and Statistics Canada’s Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics said they have no figures for their origins.

Aside from the differences of opinion over what constitutes a “crime gun,” serial numbers are usually rubbed out on guns seized, making them untraceable, he said.

You can't blame this on guns coming from the US. That's a cop out. We need more police, more charges, and more jail time. I believe in the broken window approach to crime.

I have never thought of myself as the slightest bit racist but if I see a bunch of black teens with baggy pants etc coming towards me on a Toronto street I would cross the street to avoid them. That is sad.

I don't like the word "racist" to describe the suspicion one has when confronted with certain types of groups, as I think it has more to do with a cultural bias than a racial one. For example, would you still feel the need to cross the street if it was a group of clean-cut, briefcase carrying, three-piece suit wearing black males approaching you? How about a bunch of shouting, unruly and obviously drunk white kids?

My in-laws are all black, but I would still be wary of confronting the same type of gang you described, which is admittedly sad. But we are all victims of the same headlines and fears. We make several assumptions about people based on appearance and how they present themselves in public, and unfortunately the gangbanger image is one that we have come to associate with criminality. Just like when I see a white guy in a wife-beater with a mullet haircut I assume he is a country music-lovin', monster truck pull watchin', WWE-subscribin', sister-lovin' sh*tkicker. Is it right to do so? Probably not, but we do it anyway.

The problem comes when we start to blend our fears of a certain, headline-grabbing part of a culture (and it is very important to remember that the vast majority of black people are decent, law-abiding citizens who deplore this violence as much as everyone else, perhaps even more so since they know the backlash will affect them as well) into a generalized bias against the entire group.

Sure, some of those guys in the baggy pants are bad-asses. But some are just good kids copying a particular style of fashion that appeals to them. A few bad apples...yadda, yadda, yadda.

You can't blame this on guns coming from the US. That's a cop out. We need more police, more charges, and more jail time. I believe in the broken window approach to crime.

And the broken window approach to crime has no empirical evidence to prove it works.

There is however a lot of evidence that suggests more guns means more suicides and more murders. Why? Because guns, unlike many other weapons, are lethal on the first strike.

Finally, ALL those things you say we need would require a HUGE increase in spending and people simply don't want to pay higher taxes.

I laugh at politicians who promise more cops and longer jail terms and then turn around and promise drastically lower taxes. You can't have it both ways. If you want more patrolman, less backlogs in the courts and more people incarcerated for longer periods of time, you have to be prepared to spend more money.

I laugh at politicians who promise more cops and longer jail terms and then turn around and promise drastically lower taxes. You can't have it both ways. If you want more patrolman, less backlogs in the courts and more people incarcerated for longer periods of time, you have to be prepared to spend more money.

What you say is true but I can't agree. Odd? Well if the tax money was spent...wait for it...PROPERLY!!! There's enough to go around ;)

Yes you can spend more money on law and order. You just can't afford gun registries, adscams, corporate welfare, bloated civil service and bureacracies, sticking your nose into provincial constitutional responsibilities, etc. Its all about priorities.

The vast majority of the murdered and murderers have been of Jamaican background where there is a culture of violence and usually a lack of family commitment by the "fathers". Fathers because one woman will often have several children by several men, who rarely stick around.

This is Jamaican culture and they are exporting it here. We need to figure out how to deal with this situation.

Not all murderers are Jamaican and not all Jamaicans are murderers, obviously, however, those of Jamaican heritage are very disproportionately represented in gang culture and the murders commited.

This is not racist or racial profiling, it is simply a fact. We need to deal with all impoverished, disgruntled people, but let's pick the low hanging fruit.

I hope that positive leadership, big brothers and community centres help.

Various "third world" cultures have begun to educate and free women, and this has helped tremendously. Something similar needs to happen to change the culture, otherwise this problem will persist. This will take some time.

Jamaica has roughly the same population as the city of Toronto, yet the murder rate is roughly 20 times Toronto's and rising fast (it's 50% higher than only a few years ago). If you took the murders commited by those of Jamaican heritage out of the Toronto stats, the result would be closer to 50 times Toronto's. This statistic cannot and must not be ignored.

http://story.jamaicantimes.com/p.x/ct/9/id/0c4f64ed631967f0/cid/8fdef8065235cb7f

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1737306.stm

In the meantime people who commit crimes with guns need to be kept off the streets a lot longer than they currently are. The first murder of 2006 was a young man who shot someone else in the head only 3 years ago. Many other murders were commited by people on bail or parole for gun crimes. This is ludicrous.

There is no reason for anyone outside law enforcement to own a handgun, but there are already quite a few handguns around and keeping handguns away from those who want them will be difficult indeed.

One more thing must happen. The witnesses to the gang crimes must learn to come forward for their own and for society's benefit. The "nobody seen nuthin' " attitude must change.

I agree that a lot of the problems stem from the culture. A lot of people have been talking about addressing the "root causes" and I agree that this should be done in principle. However, identifying and addressing "root causes" is an extremely long and costly endeavour, and not always successful. In the mean time, we have a large population at risk, and more people will be hurt/killed while we "address the root causes".

So, I say lock up the perpetrators and throw away the keys while we explore the "root causes", so that at least the population can be safe from repeat offenders for a long time. When we have found what works, we may then start to treat those in prison and perhaps let them out. Until then, LOCK 'EM UP!!

If any of you have travelled to Asian countries, you will know they have something called a "rotan". A few strokes of the rotan plus a lengthy non-country club jail term (no drugs, no TV, no steaks, plenty of hard labour) and the result is very few repeat offenders.

There also seems to be more and more young people comitting violent crimes. Even here in Halifax, a so-called "quiet" and safe city, a 17 year old kid stabbed a cab driver to death on Xmas day. The same kid had been arrested before for stabbing a cab driver -- when he was 14.

The other week a convenience store clerk was savagely beaten by 2 or 3 teenaged punks who came in brandishing pipes.

And we also had the sad death of Theresa McEvoy, who was killed by a 16 year old kid driving a stolen car while smacked out on drugs. The kid had been released from youth court only two days before, despite there being an outstanding warrant for his arrest on 26 charges (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20041104/NS_carcrashinquiry_20041104?s_name=&no_ads=).

Over the summer and fall we had several swarmings, where a bunch of youths would attack someone for no reason. Sometimes they would rob them, but usually it was just to stomp on someone's head.

This is unacceptable. We have a justice system that bends over backwards making concessions for criminals, allowing convicted murderers and child molesters like Lawrence Pretty to have weekend visits with their wives to "rebuild" relationships (he sexually molested four girls while out on parole for murder -- gee, what a good risk for another release).

We've known about the problems with youth crime and the old Young Offenders Act for years now, and still nothing of consequence has been done. Still we have victims of crime paying far harsher penalties than any of the offenders. The entire justice system of this country needs an enema...

...so do the parents.

...so do the parents.

I agree......the parents (or lack there of) is where it all starts.

There is a good article on crime in TO in the Citizen today. The statistics in the article show that crime is actually down in TO....by quite a large amount. The exception is of course gun related violence which is way up.

An interesting read....

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=97bf29f6-2a2b-4185-a2e1-7e6387170e61

We've known about the problems with youth crime and the old Young Offenders Act for years now, and still nothing of consequence has been done.

I whole-heartedly agree on this point. The YCJA is a joke. A much harder line has to be taken on youth crime. . . . otherwise there are no punishments to fit the crimes. This is just as applicable in Saskatoon with youth gangs as it is in TO.

This mornings news (Toronto) reports that a mother of a 17 yr old , found a gun in his bedroom under his pillow, she turned him and the gun in...

it was not a little hand gun but an AK-47 assault riffle


http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20060104/assault_rifle_home_060104/20060104?hub=TorontoHome


A Toronto woman discovered an AK-47 assault rifle in her son's bedroom and immediately made sure the 17-year-old was put behind bars.

"I was in shock," the mother told CTV News.

She found the weapon in her son's bed, along with an unknown number of ammunition rounds. The mother called police and turned the weapon, and her son, over to officers.

Police arrested the boy. He and the mother cannot be identified due to the Youth Criminal Justice Act.



In my own opinion- it is absolutely horrifying to see how easy it is for our youth to just take out another human so easily... this indicates to me they have absolutely no understanding of the value and worth of another human being... shame on us adults!



can’t twist the truth, it knows no regulation.
Handful of senators don’t pass legislation
And marches alone can’t bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin’
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin’

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

this song might have more relevance than first realised

This mornings news (Toronto) reports that a mother of a 17 yr old , found a gun in his bedroom under his pillow, she turned him and the gun in...

it was not a little hand gun but an AK-47 assault riffle


http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20060104/assault_rifle_home_060104/20060104?hub=TorontoHome


A Toronto woman discovered an AK-47 assault rifle in her son's bedroom and immediately made sure the 17-year-old was put behind bars.

Let's hope the Tories get in and implement their newly announced anti-crime measures. It was interesting that CTV aired a segment this morning in which David Akin said the Tories were developing the anti-crime platform during their convention meeting last year, and that it was a fortuitous circumstance that allowed them to announce it now, when gun violence is in the forefront. Very much unlike the Libs who are just getting the message now.

"Hate your next-door neighbor, but don’t forget to say grace"

"Hate your next-door neighbor, but don’t forget to say grace"

Good sung huh? :-)

I agree......the parents (or lack there of) is where it all starts.

the gun is just a symptom of a more serious problem of which those parents are also effected with

Where it all starts is.... lack of respect, and understanding of the value and worth of another human being.. maybe if we understood the value and worth of one another , held each other in a higher esteem then these kids wouldn't be so quick to take a life...., or the drunk driver wouldn't be so quick to fight his addiction and get behind the wheel... or the spousal abuses etc etc etc

Good sung huh? :-)Definitely! :)

Hmmm...another promising young life (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1139439013211&call_pageid=968256289824&col=968342212737) snatched away due to gun violence and barely a peep from the national or international media.

Nor have I heard any statements from politicians about this tragedy, as compared to the outrage expressed over the Boxing Day shooting.

I guess it has a lot to do with where you're from and where the shooting takes place. And whether or not you are a middle-class suburban white person.