Ok.. then the entire population of Canada barely equals the population of the state of California..

http://www.50states.com/californ.htm 33,871,648

Like I said..... erm :rolleyes:

Pronut,

For your post # 6, are you trying to impress us with a philosophical report on the state of HD in Canada? Do you have an agenda?



LOL, my post count should dictate my tone ..... not !

When you've finally made the move and have resolved all the expensive interfacing boxes and wiring and installation and setups to get a very limited HD service from a provider. And you get your favorite channel (and your wifes...) pulled with no advance warning...... Can't I have just a bit of ranting space :eek: ... hey maybe we should all shut up right

.... Unless you don't have to work hard for your money and you love paying all these taxes :rolleyes:

Merry Christmas :cool:


Oh yeah... Michel is right about the signal level bait and switch... The signal level demotions (audio 5.1 to 2.0 and video bit rates...etc..) is the most ridiculous thing I've ever witnessed. You initially buy a high performance engine and six months later your in a sputtering Lada ROFL. Another fine scam !

LOL, my post count should dictate my tone ..... not !

Over the years I've witnessed, in many different Forums, instances of new posters with aggressive initial posts who just happen to be a banned member returning under a different member name. It appears that in your case, I was wrong and am sorry that have annoyed you with my remark.


Oh yeah... Michel is right about the signal level bait and switch... The signal level demotions (audio 5.1 to 2.0 and video bit rates...etc..) is the most ridiculous thing I've ever witnessed. You initially buy a high performance engine and six months later your in a sputtering Lada ROFL. Another fine scam !

I'm not here to defend Videotron.

I was the first to acknowledge that we had lost the DiscoveryHD signal and the first to not only email the Videotron Marketing manager of my displeasure but I also emailed Discovery.ca to express my concerned in their demands that caused the withdrawal. And to this moment, I still believe that members should be more inclined to contact Discovery.ca than the CRTC in this matter.

Concerning audio signals, both ABCHD and NBCHD from Buffalo are incapable of transmitting 5.1. With NBCHD, it's not only because of their equipment but the audio bitrate of 192 Kbps is insufficient. The requirement for 5.1 audio is 384 Kbps. In both cases the Video bitrate is inadequate and for months now many have expressed their displeasure to Videotron for having switched from Detroit to Buffalo for US channels (PBSHD uses Spokane WA as a feed). The Videotron position is that they are using Rogers/Toronto as feed sources for US channels. Why? Costs? infrastructure, such as lack of fiber optic cable from Detroit to Montreal?

On the plus side, on November 2, Videotron has reorganized the HD channels from 3 per QAM to 2 per QAM thus improving the picture quality on all HD channels, even those with a low amount of Bitrate from the source. All Canadian HD channels are of top Video quality and can even rival with an OTA image. We have 16.6 and 16.9 Mbps respectively for CBCHD and SRCHD vs 18 Mbps final incoming Bitrate from the initial 19.4 Mbps OTA image. It takes expert eyes to see the difference.

On the plus side, our PVRs, whether SA8000HD or SA8300HD, have software versions in the 1.88.xx.x and are more advanced and fault free than the present software supplied to Rogers clients for the same PVRs.

There are issues with all providers including satellite (see the appropriate forums). You say scam... I say work in progress.

There is allot of bad blood between these 2 companies.... they hate each other with passion.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/11/07/videotron-051107.html

There is allot of bad blood between these 2 companies.... they hate each other with passion.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/11/07/videotron-051107.html

...and as we know, Discovery.ca belongs to Bell Globemedia ! Doesn't take much more now to cause a shootout at the OK corral. The question is who got killed or are they both injured?

Oh!, here is a very pleasant card for Xmas:

http://www.reuters.hu/card_dom/index_content.html

And to this moment, I still believe that members should be more inclined to contact Discovery.ca than the CRTC in this matter.
MFABIEN, any complaint will help. However in this case I think they should be directed to the CRTC/Videotron. Why?

If this move was intentional by Disc/BCE then a few e-mails to them won't make a difference and be ignored. They'll just re-direct you to your provider and make them look like the bad guy. A deliberate act like this leads me to believe that this is a strategic move where BEV will lose some revenue initially but in the hopes that subscribers migrate to them from Videotron in the long run.

Secondly, we deal directly with Videotron. They have to answer to their customers, not BEV or BCE. Disc only deals with providers (although a few e-mails to them showing our displeasure doesn't hurt). Complaints to Videotron will only result in finger-pointing and the standard canned replies some members have posted here.

That leaves us with our only recourse, the dreaded CRTC.

Maybe it is Disc being greedy; or BCE trying to p*ss off Quebecor. We don't really know the whole story behind this and who's at fault so let's use the system in place as a start. The CRTC should step in and find out what's going on and stand up for the consumer it is mandated to serve.

hi mfabien,

...as canadian taxpayers of supposedly equal priviliges, why should Videotron subscribers not enjoy the same viewing opportunities as Bell ExpressVue.

The CRTC licenses are NOT granted for gaining a marketing edge over one's competition.

We should at least have the option to pay for it if available.

And how about the degradation of HD and sound quality since the Buffalo switch...if the feed is crap and you receive crap at 16mb/s it still remains crap...

Thus, the CRTC should be implicated, as nonchalant as they might be.

btw, geat Christmas card :p

Here we go again...them nasty CRTC people. :o

I don't think CRTC has anything to do in Videotron not showing Discovery HD or not. In the end, it's all in the negotiations. Just like why does BEV have WGNHD but ROGERS doesn't? It is approved by CRTC but it's up to the providers to have it or not. How many customers BEV have versus Videotron might have a big outcome as far as how much $$$ it costs to have it on their systems (the providers). I know Discovery belongs to BCE who owns BEV but that out of the way, it always comes down to money. Plain and simple. Can't always blame CRTC for everything....although I sure would love to ring their necks most of the time :)

Here we go again...them nasty CRTC people. :o

I don't think CRTC has anything to do in Videotron not showing Discovery HD or not...snip....Can't always blame CRTC for everything...snip

hi Danster,

...uhmm, who's blaming the CRTC or who's saying it's their fault?

....of course they have nothing to do with it...:rolleyes:

....all we're seeking is some kinna help from the big boys who play with our taxpayers bucks...and don't say they can't help...let them do the talking....

...DiscoveryHD was on air after a lenghty hype campaign then suddenly and savagly pulled out...obsiously there's more bullshit under the rug that meets the eye...and that certainly deserves some kind of attention from the feds...:mad:

I just started reading the thread. This may all be BCE's way of getting a competitive edge. I am from Shaw land, Shaw communications, ( Shaw Cable and Star Choice), have not been able to get an agreement with discovery either. Is this just coincidence? Or is this BCEs way of drumming up business for BEV.

hi Danster,

...uhmm, who's blaming the CRTC or who's saying it's their fault?

....of course they have nothing to do with it...:rolleyes:

....all we're seeking is some kinna help from the big boys who play with our taxpayers bucks...and don't say they can't help...let them do the talking....

...DiscoveryHD was on air after a lenghty hype campaign then suddenly and savagly pulled out...obsiously there's more bullshit under the rug that meets the eye...and that certainly deserves some kind of attention from the feds...:mad:

Assuming you accept that the event of the disappearance of Discovery HD from the Videotron HD service is not subject to a CRTC rule,

it would be useful to understand that civil servants do not take it upon themselves to make representations to superiors or to elected officials that an event, which does not contravene the Broadcasting & Telecommunication act or the rules administered by the CRTC, nevertheless merits special attention by the Minister or by legislators. In fact you can bet your bottom dollar that the immediate superior of such an enterprising civil servant would reprimand the person in no uncertain terms. Idealism is not permissible in the civil service. That is the domain of politicians.

Here we go again...them nasty CRTC people. :o


I blame them for approving the channel, rather than the real version of this channel, which is the subject for another thread.

If Bell didn't own this channel, this thread wouldn't exist and I blame the CRTC for this.

...snip...Idealism is not permissible in the civil service...snip...

hi mfabien,


Agree, but this is not idealism...these civil servants get numerous complaints and it's their duty to scrutinize the situation.

This event marks the beginning of a very nasty trend that may become "business as usual" if we stay silent...

Any responsible, taxdollar paid civil servant who cares should certainly spark some curiosity from higher level...

My sister-in-law is a civil servant and no one gets reprimanded for looking a little further from their noses...actually, if done smartly, you may get a promotion...:cool:

I'm new here and I just read this entire thread (except for the bashing between members). It seems that many have called Videotron and got different versions/stories of the reasons behind the removal of DiscHD.

I know someone who was present at the meeting when this decision was made. The reason is very simple, it is in fact because DiscHD now wants 2.00$/month per subscriber. This is more than 4 times the average price for HD stations which, I believe, is around 47 cents.

At 5.99$/month, DiscHD's demand would take off 40% of Videotron's retail price which would probably make the whole HD broadcasting no longer profitable.

Now I don't know much about the CRTC regulations but I think their authorization would be required for Videotron to sell DiscHD separately or bundle it with something else.

My guess is that it's gonna come back sooner or later, on way or another and WE are just gonna pay 2.25$ or 2.50$ a month for it. Most of us will buy it when it comes back and, if this is really a trick from BCE, they're gonna manage to screw us again because they ARE gonna take our money, either directly or through Videotron.

Like I said in my post, it all comes down to the mighty $$$.

Michel,

I know that St-Hilaire is without power due to the ice storm in your area.

Not a very nice way to spend the day after Christmas. Many need to go to a shelter because of lack of heat. Was it your case?

Thinking about you and hope all is well.

Still no power for Michel... read story in the following:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/12/26/storm051226.html

My guess is that it's gonna come back sooner or later, on way or another and WE are just gonna pay 2.25$ or 2.50$ a month for it.
I fully agree with your assessment. And I'm one of those suckers who'll end up paying.

I don't care who's to blame...the CRTC, the politicians, or BCE but there's something wrong with a system that allows a carrier to own a channel and dictate how much its competitors pay for it. It wouldn't bother me if this was a free, open market but it is not and obviously favours one over the others.

If this tactic continues I can see a future where there is only one national satellite carrier and one cable carrier across the nation. How could a regional cable provider compete against a carrier with a subscriber base from B.C. to the Maritimes?

MFABIEN, any complaint will help............etc.....

Totally express my point of view 100% but said in a far better way that I could have....By the way, not only did I file a complaint to the CRTC which role is, as you say so rightfully, to stand up for the canadian consumers, protect their interest, and certainly is NOT provide licences to use as a weapon of competition....but I also wrote to Discovery themselves to which I got no reply so far and frankly, I do not expect one. If they do, they will probably as you say , again so rightfully, throw back the ball at videotron....Personally, after investing so much money in my HD system, I will neglect no avenues whatsoever to get offered what I should be able to get as a consumer and I see the CRTC as the guardian fo that. Not long ago, Radio Canada had two programs regarding HD televison: "5 sur 5" and a program called "Découverte" which is the french word for discovery oddly enough....Also, La Presse, a major french newspaper in Montreal had a whole section discussing HD television. I may even write to all those journalist to make them aware of that situation. I am so pissed off with it that I will stir as much sh*t as I can on this issue.... It is not a question of blaming the CRTC for that situation at all, it is a question of letting them know what is happening and our displeasure with it... If we let this thing go, what is to say it won't be the same every time a new HD station comes out, such as National Geographic soon.....Let us not forget that cable companies have exclusive territories and as long as it will be like that, yes, a government agency should regulate their action to a degree.....in order to protect our rights.....If no one tells them and we rely on the suppliers of service to solve that, not only we will be getting the run around (all the BS answers) that we are presently getting, but I have little hope it can be solved. I also wrote to videotron to complain and interestingly enough, the answers given to complainers do vary. From the excuse that the signal were cut from them, to they decide to cut it themselves because it wasn't in their customer's interest and so many other "excuses"....Let's face it, we do not know the real reason that happened and we can't count on neither companies to tell us....This is why I wrote to the CRTC, not to blame them but to check in to that situation and maybe let them know that their licence may be used not for the purpose it was granted but rather as a edge for competition for a company versus another....and that is wrong....plain and simple...as CaptQuebec said...

hi mfabien,

...as canadian taxpayers of supposedly equal priviliges, why should Videotron subscribers not enjoy the same viewing opportunities as Bell ExpressVue.

The CRTC licenses are NOT granted for gaining a marketing edge over one's competition.

We should at least have the option to pay for it if available.

And how about the degradation of HD and sound quality since the Buffalo switch...if the feed is crap and you receive crap at 16mb/s it still remains crap...

Thus, the CRTC should be implicated, as nonchalant as they might be.

Couldn't have said it better.... Reflects my point of view entirely

I know someone who was present at the meeting when this decision was made. The reason is very simple, it is in fact because DiscHD now wants 2.00$/month per subscriber. This is more than 4 times the average price for HD stations which, I believe, is around 47 cents.

At 5.99$/month, DiscHD's demand would take off 40% of Videotron's retail price which would probably make the whole HD broadcasting no longer profitable.

Then, it is a question to check if the price asked to Videotron by them is the same as the one asked to other providers such as Rogers since Rogers offers that station as we speak. If not, it is not fair play and it doesn't serve canadian consumer's interest (which is one of the roles as I see it for the CRTC)....If not, it also means that they specifically asked for conditions to Videotron so unreasonable that the purpose is obviously not "kosher". Is it related to the war in basic phone lines and/or the court case between Bell and Videotron regarding the ease of pirating satellite TV ??? Your post certainly raises a few questions in my mind... I have to presume that Videotron knew about the price asked prior to putting Discovery on air....as any business man would do that before "retailing" any product and setting a price for it. You have to know your cost before you start selling, not after.....I have difficulties understanding why this doesn't seem to be the case here...Did Discovery change their price after an agreement, in the last minute or Videotron miscalculated their true cost before offering it in a package ??? Either way, it seems quite stupid to me. Why is it that Rogers finds it profitable and Videotron not profitable if the "per subscriber price" is the same (presuming it is) ??? Many points are not clear to me.....

Anyway, I couldn't care less if they charhe $3.00 extra ( a nice 33% profit) to make it available to me because frankly the rest of the HD package is crap to me anyway and I don't need it. The way I see it, I'd save myself $2.95 a month should they decide to go that route....since they charge $5.95 a month for their package I don't want anyway...

My two cents worth :-)


P.S. : I am glad to see that "mfabien" apologized to "pronut" but I have yet to see an apology from him for making fun of my posting sarcastically and with a great deal of patronizing to an opinion that I was entitled to have, that ought to be respected very much the same way I respect everyone's opinion . Furthermore my opinion seems to be shared by many as I see it....so If my opinion deserved such an sarcastic answer, the ones that shared it deserved it....