: HD Radio (Ibiquity IBOC) in Canada


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stampeder
2005-12-14, 02:57 PM
Are there any HD Radio Stations available within the Toronto listening area?No, it has not been commonly adopted in Canada but it has been rolled out in the U.S. already.I've never listened to "HD Radio". Is it like satellite radio?Think of HD Radio as typical terrestrial FM Stereo Radio on steroids. For those new to digital HD Radio there is a ton of info about it in these threads:

General situation in U.S.: HD Radio situation on U.S. FM and AM bands (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=111984)

Popularity of HD Radio in U.S.: HD Radio Multicasts Booming in U.S. (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=104306)

Inexpensive but amazing tuner: Sony XDR-F1HD Tuner for HD Radio (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=94361)

rob50312
2005-12-18, 08:44 PM
Most Buffalo stations are converting now.Star 102.5 says operational in early 2006.They have the strongest signal from Buffalo and are easily received in T.O..

markb
2005-12-18, 10:16 PM
What is HD radio? Whats the difference between HD radio and normal radio?

BillMinRegina
2005-12-19, 12:40 AM
HD Radio is the brand name for a kind of Digital Radio called IBOC (In Band On Channel) which piggybacks digital signals on existing analog radio signals. In Canada a system called Eureka 147 was approved a few stations went on air but so far it's been a flop. Given the popularity of satellite radio, expect IBOC to be a simular flop.

minidiscfreak
2005-12-19, 03:08 PM
Hd radio is the way to go, you don't have to pay any fees, unlike xm or sirius. Some car radio's are hd ready too. As far as i am concerned i will be waiting for hd radio to be adopted here in Canada, I am not gonna pay $15 bucks a month, i get two good stations in my car Fm 96 from london and Edge 102 from Toronto.

Bakerboy
2005-12-20, 12:07 PM
HD Radio will not be adopted in Canada; it is an American standard for digital radio. Canada, like most of the world, has adopted the Eureka 147 DAB digital standard for radio. The Americans have adopted their standard because the L-band in the USA is assigned for exclusive military use. I have seen it explained that the American system is simply cramming more stuff into the narrow radio channels, while the Canada/World system allows for 'full channels' from the start.

Furthermore, digital radio in Canada is not going to be replaced by satellite radio. There are many people, me included, who 1) don't want to pay for radio, and/or 2) really like the local nature of radio.

All radio stations will eventually switch to digital, no matter the standard. US stations will go digital while using the same frequency allotment. Canadian stations will go digital, but using the international standard in a different frequency allotment. Stations in Canada will have to hand back their licences to the traditional FM channels when they receive their licences for the L-band channel (and once Industry Canada gives the order to shut down the analogue system).

While some may see the current state of digital radio in Canada as a 'flop', I suspect the situation is due to Industry Canada not setting a hard deadline to shut off the analogue system. I would guess we would be seeing a lot more digital radio, and promotion of digital, if broadcasters knew they had to surrender their FM licences by a certain date (such as is occurring in the UK).

Arthur Dent
2005-12-20, 01:29 PM
While some may see the current state of digital radio in Canada as a 'flop', I suspect the situation is due to Industry Canada not setting a hard deadline to shut off the analogue system. I would guess we would be seeing a lot more digital radio, and promotion of digital, if broadcasters knew they had to surrender their FM licences by a certain date (such as is occurring in the UK).

I don't think FM broadcasters will ever have to give up analog FM. It would be nice to have some sort of enforcement of digital radio, but there won't be. The CRTC (you are saying Industry Canada - which is it?) did not mandate a deadline for digital TV, unlike the FCC in the US - how can you expect them to mandate the adoption of a digital radio standard, which on top of that is different than in the US?
Eureka is a no-go in Canada, IMHO. It has no support from anywhere - no radios, no broadcasters (OK, a few of them in Toronto, with a total of 2 listeners), and no government body pushing for digital radio. I think that in 5-10 years, when HD Radio becomes popular in the US, and there will still be no digital radio broadcast in Canada, pressure may come from electronics and probably car manufacturers, as well as broadcasters, for the CRTC to mandate HD Radio in Canada and drop Eureka. Similar to what happened with XM and Sirius.

Mingy
2006-01-19, 11:21 AM
HD Radio is the brand name for a kind of Digital Radio called IBOC (In Band On Channel) which piggybacks digital signals on existing analog radio signals. In Canada a system called Eureka 147 was approved a few stations went on air but so far it's been a flop. Given the popularity of satellite radio, expect IBOC to be a simular flop.


Its a little early to predict the popularity of satellite radio, given the amount of money being spent on its promotion, no? When it costs you more to gain a subscriber than the subscriber is ever likely to pay you in fees you can get a lot of subscribers. The financial viability of satellite radio remains uncertain, despite the hype and hysteria (all bought and paid for, by the way).

Eureka is DAB, which has caught on in Europe and elswhere. Because the idiots in Ottawa went DAB (which is not going to be adopted in the US) it is an bastard standard for North America and was doomed here from the start.

HD radio provides high quality audio piggybacked on the FM channel (or AM) as noted above. In the US, if you have a broadcast license you can easily modify that license for HD. The consumer can tune to an HD radio station with an analog radio and it sounds fine. With an HD reciever, the quality is better. Plus I believe there is a possibility to provide sub-channels, traffic info, etc., etc..

It remains to be seen whether consumers care, though: despite the hype over satellite radio, the real threat to commercial radio is the ipod & like devices.

www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=15358&hed=Radio+Responds+in+High+Def

HornHonker
2006-01-19, 04:00 PM
I think the sub channels will be IBOC's undoing. The stations are greedily eyeing multiple content streams and are willing to forget the so called HD value of better sound quality. DAB has gone the same low-fi direction in most of Europe.

Here is a snip from a European Forum...

I think overall, FM is alot better sound quality than DAB, for me, DAB is fine for listening whilst in bed, which saves me having the Hi-Fi on, but overall i'd choose FM as to listen to most of the time.
I think what we need is New Multiplec's to be handed out, that way companies van invest in them and span the stations out, but as it always is; "Quantity, not quality" I'm affraid.

rob50312
2006-11-15, 09:02 PM
Many Buffalo fm stations now transmitting HD and HD2.Many are receivable in Toronto.Thinking of getting an car hd tuner to use at home.JVC unit about 200 bucks on ebay.

rob50312
2006-12-15, 07:36 PM
Seems our CRTC is allowing IBOC if Canadian FM stations want to use it and still have DAB.Its listed in todays CRTC releases.Will this spill the end to DAB and did the CRTC make a mistake in going it alone with DAB in Canada as we use different Equipment then Europe for DAB?

CamDAB
2006-12-15, 10:55 PM
The decision is more in depth than that.

Firstly, DAB is still the mainstay for digital broadcasting.

Secondly, IBOC, or DRM (whichever the Department of Industry determines to be technically acceptable (could be one, or the other, or both) could be implemented, but interference issues and coverage areas need to be evaluated.

Thirdly, with respect to DAB (DRB as the CRTC calls it), has been given a bit of a shot in the arm...

1) More freedom as to what to broadcast, and not just digitizing AM and FM Stations. This means more format flexibility.
2) More flexibility in determining coverage with the balancing of main transmitting sites vs. use of relays
3) They're still capped at 5 stations per ensemble, but this can be upped providing quality isn't impaired by improved compression techniques, such as AAC+ (to name one being tested elsewhere in the world).
4) Licensing is for 7 year periods, but if the current licenses are not acted upon by the dates specified and broadcasting commenced (for those not on-air yet), they loose their license for DAB broadcasting.

The full decision can be found here: http://www.crtc.gc.ca

An excellent rundown of todays decision can also be found at the Worldwide Ensembles Web site.
http://www.wohnort.demon.co.uk/DAB/index.html

Cameron

rob50312
2006-12-16, 10:34 AM
The decision does nothing to to get more people into DAB receivers.With IBOC receivers costing $200 and coming standard in cars soon plus allowing IBOC on FM here will mean the end to DAB.

bbgobie
2007-02-28, 09:53 AM
There doesn't seem to be too much user feedback on HD Radio?

How does this compare to regular radio, and the two satellite options we have?

No subscription fee makes it interesting, plus getting local radio stations...

alebowgm
2007-05-06, 01:11 AM
Hello all,

I am just wondering if there is anyone in the GTA who is pulling in the HD Radio stations from Buffalo, and if so, what stations are available (is there a list of available stations somewhere)? I was reading another thread here on the site that said Canada and USA have different standards, so is there any tuners that get both the Canadian and American HD signal (and what stations are there in Toronto that are HD)?

Just looking for something to spice up my life, as ATSC signals from Buffalo are no longer doing it for me :-)

CamDAB
2007-05-06, 08:34 PM
Try this link:

http://www.hdradio.com/

Looks like most of the FM market in Buffalo is using it now.

As to whether there's a combined HD / DAB radio, I seem to remember Radioscape, who make pre-assemblies for industry, have, or are creating a module that does AM, FM, DAB, HD Radio, and I think DRM (Digital Radio Mondale) as well. Don't quote me on that :).

In Canada, the CRTC has relaxed the rules pertaining to DAB station licensing. We'll see if there's any new takers to the new rules.

I tend to prefer DAB, as I've been listening to it now since December, 2003. And, when engineered correctly, it sounds great.

I haven't checked the latest receiver prices for HD radio, but as with any new medium, the price is high. I hope this has changed.

Cameron

rob50312
2007-05-08, 06:50 PM
I would think only STAR 102.5 would come in HD from Buffalo.All the other stations have adjacent channel problems in the GTA and since HD radio is using the sidebands of the analog signal for digital.

alebowgm
2007-05-08, 08:22 PM
All the other stations have adjacent channel problems in the GTA and since HD radio is using the sidebands of the analog signal for digital

What do you mean by that? I get a lot of the Buffalo stations, like 98.5 in my car no issue...

CamDAB
2007-05-08, 10:04 PM
What do you mean by that? I get a lot of the Buffalo stations, like 98.5 in my car no issue...
Back in the late '80's I had a ride down in a rental truck that had a mono AM-FM radio. It had this amazing FM tuner that had selectivity close to the super narrow setting of a McIntosh MR-80. Even in downtown Toronto, I could pop up and down one channel (200KHz) away from any station from the CN tower and usually got minimal adjacent channel interference, or just noise. Distant stations came in clearly. We had 95.3 (Hamilton) almost into Belleville, then it came back in near Kingston. Just before we got to Belleville, from Toronto, I tried CHEZ (Ottawa) and... There it was, not bad either. We lost it again but it started coming back in (more or less) as we turned off the 401 onto (I think) 15 or 16.

Still doesn't beat 1981: Sansui TU-9900, 6 element beam pointed SE, listening to ZBM Hamilton Bermuda (got that one on cassette, an entire newscast too). :) "Brought to you by the Bank of Bermuda".

Cameron

rob50312
2007-05-08, 10:21 PM
Yes 98.5 is clear in Toronto.There is 98.5 from Kitchener.Buffalo stations with interference problems are 106.5,92.9,104.1,103.3,94.5,93.7,96.1,96.9.The 106.5 is totally blocked with Toronto station on same freq.