One station, folks. No need to extrapolate from that for all of broadcasting.
There does seem to be a bit of a trend though. More HD signals are becoming simulcasts or used as a back door way to feed an analogue translator.

Apparently (I can't get all the HD's in Buffalo to confirm) but that I seem to remember Newsradio 930 showing up on other HD2's as well as on 930KHz AM...

AM has significantly different propagation characteristics than FM (or HD) so I don't have a problem with it being on both AM and on an HD2. As for being on multiple HD2s, it depends how far apart the towers are. If the towers are co-located (or close to it) it is a waste, but if they are a ways away from each other, it is less of an issue as you do want some signal overlap to ensure reliable reception for everyone.

So... to me, not a great use of technology. If the bitrate had been lowered to something better than AM, and put in mono, then it would make sense on an HD3 stream, but in stereo, out of phase kinda takes the cake for wasted bandwidth....

Agreed. Talk radio should have a low bitrate and be in mono. Having said that, compression techniques used make stereo broadcasts use only slightly more bandwidth than mono ones since the left and right channels are typically very similar.

Actually, thinking about it, talk radio could use stereo to make interviews more lifelike buy emphasizing the interviewer on one channel and the interviewee on the other, giving you better localization an a sense that you are in the room with them.

There are 3 Buffalo HD stations carrying am talk radio.We have am 930 WBEN on 107.7 analog fm and HD1 and its on 102.5 HD2.While am 550 is on 98.5 HD2.All 3 used to have their own programming

And that's happening in other markets too.

The idea of taking niche formats, broadcasting them locally, and trying to apply a local ratings/revenue model to them was incredibly optimistic. Had the public gotten on board en masse and within a few years, it could have worked, but it got drowned out with choice.

(The contradiction of the words 'niche' and 'broad'cast could have been an indicator.)

I forgot to include am 970 Buffalo is also on WNED 94.5 HD2.So thats 4 Buffalo am stations on HD radio.

Isn't there also some crossover now between WBFO 88.7 and 970KHz?

Cameron

HD Radio is crap and a scheme to destroy the smaller adjacent-channel stations through interference:

http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com

Can anybody point me to a review of HD sound by an audiophile reviewer?

With my wonderful Sony tuner, when the signal from Buffalo is strong enough to cross the HD threshold (rarely strongly) the FM-stereo signal produces high-quality sound. And when the tuner is switching back and forth, hard to compare a strong FM-stereo sound to a weak HD sound by ear. And since there's no HD defeat switch, I can't A-B the two sounds.

For another few hundred dollars maybe I can get a better HD signal at my house from Buffalo. Not enthusiastic to try. Tempted to disable the HD on the Sony tuner and that's that. (BTW, in Delray Beach, FL, in the winter, we are half-way between two PBS stations - at a very favourable 180 degrees! - and HD life couldn't be nicer with the four channels received clearly.)

Ben

Ben Your Sony Tuner is the best unit in terms of reception and sound.At my house WNED 94.5 comes in HD always no drops since WNED increased HD power.I am using a 3 element FM antenna in my attic and the Seagean component tuner.Sound on WNED HD1 is excellent very dynamic.

I'm cryin'. You are fortunate.

Your (1) geometry/distance is much better than mine and (2) as a consequence of your 90-degree geometry, you don't have the blasting I get from the CN Tower.

With respect for this forum's strict on-topic rule enforcement, here's something I have not been able to evaluate that I raised on the FM antenna forum: the relative harm of distance versus local signal blasting.

Ben

This may be inappropriate for this thread, my apologies in advance.
A Buffalo radio station AM 970 went off the air Nov 30.
The same station has an HD radio signal 88.7.
I was able to receive the AM 970 signal so I thought I could get the HD signal.
I bought a USB stick AverTV Hybrid Volar Max MTVHBVMXR because it has digital radio.
I used an 8 bay exterior antenna.
I can get all three WNED-TV channels, plus 5 or 6 other NY channels.
However, not one digital radio station.
Basic questions.

The AM970 seemed so clear, does the HD 88.7 signal carry as far?
Anyone have any idea if the Aver software for digital radio is compatible to WBFO's HD 88.7 signal?
Would a HD radio be able to receive the HD88.7 signal?
Would a special antenna and filter work?

Does anyone know if you can get NPR on shortwave in Toronto?
There is a transmitter at Key West Florida Upper Side Band 12133.5 Khz and 5446.5 Khz.

AM radio stations generaly carry further distances than FM ones. While I don't have an HD radio, you can listen to both NPR feeds (HD1 and 2) via internet. I tried just now and the quality is excellent.
http://www.wbfo.org/content/pages/listen

Other than computers, there are many other ways to listen to internet radio:

Smartphone with an app such as Tune In. (you can even listen in the car or while walking!)
Dedicated internet radios.
Home receivers with "Smart capabilities" (like the Denon AVR 1713)
Smart TVs with an internet radio app.
Apple TV

I haven't used my shortwave radio in decades, since stations began broadcasting over the net. While the Canadian ones are usually low quality, those in the US and Europe are generally FM quality or better!

A 8 Bay UHF antenna may not be the best type of antenna for FM radio.

There are three entries for WBFO-FM at the FCC site.
One indicates that it has a 50kw output. I guess this is the current one.
Check the contour maps link.
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?call=WBFO

Here is the HD Radio site for Buffalo HD Radio stations
http://www.hdradio.com/search?q=buffalo

You can always pick up a real HD Radio by visiting the Best Buy USA site.
They do have several models available. All are under the Insignia brand name.
Here is one.
http://www.insigniaproducts.com/products/portable-audio-players/NS-CLHD01.html

Thanks for the prompt replies.
wysiwyg

>there are many other ways to listen to internet radio:

That's my problem, I can't afford high speed internet. It's around $30 a month, $360 a year, $1080 in three years, just to listen to what was free on AM radio.

Blackburst

>A 8 Bay UHF antenna may not be the best type of antenna for FM radio.

I totally agree. I really don't know if HD radio is actually transmitted in the VHF range. I think the 88.7 label is in name only, not at the actual transmission frequency. There are no clear explanations.

HD radio uses the same frequency range as standard AM and FM radio stations.

Ben Your Sony Tuner is the best unit in terms of reception and sound.At my house WNED 94.5 comes in HD always no drops since WNED increased HD power.I am using a 3 element FM antenna in my attic and the Seagean component tuner.Sound on WNED HD1 is excellent very dynamic.

Umm, that's my question. I read in an FM website that under strong signal conditions, there are clearer tuners than the Sony.

For sure, the smart-processing Sony is a magician with weak signals, like nothing I've used before. And most Buffalo to Toronto signals are weak.

But with my 10-foot FM yagi, I wonder if more hi-fi is possible?

Ben

BGY11

>HD radio uses the same frequency range as standard AM and FM radio stations.

Using this premise, HD 88.7 is merely a sub-channel of FM 88.7, thus it doesn't travel to Toronto so a HD radio in Toronto wouldn't get the signal.

If you can't get WBFO-FM's analog signal were you are located, it's fair to say that you won't get it's HD signal either.

If you do, then contact the station and ask if they had requested from the FCC to boost their HD signal to the max allowed under FCC rules.

Also, VHF rabbit ear antennas usually are good for FM. You can also try a di-pole antenna. You can pick one of those up a few bucks.

Bill WNED 17.3 carries NPR radio as a 4th audio track.My panasonic is only tv that able to tune it by pressing SAP 4 times on 17.3. 88.7 wbfo comes in fine but HD reception very iffy for me

Bill forgot to mention WBFO signal of NPR also available on WNED 94.5 HD2.but your strongest signal in Canada is from WNED TV 17.3 SAP audio 4 which you can get on your TV if it can tune SAP audio.