I am grateful for that correction. Sounds like an old-time multi-band yagi would be better in some locations than an HD-UHF antenna. And it would get the FM stations too. But it wouldn't matter what piece of wire you used for strong local stations.

How would I find if any Buffalo TV-HD stations are still broadcasting in VHF bands? (Frankly, we seem get all the Buffalo stations I'd expect to get with our UHF antenna... so I doubt any are in VHF.)

Rule #1: If you're broadcasting in HD Radio, than at least have audio on it. ;-)Maybe they were playing John Cage's 4′33″ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3) ? :D

Good one, stampeder!

How would I find if any Buffalo TV-HD stations are still broadcasting in VHF bands? (Frankly, we seem get all the Buffalo stations I'd expect to get with our UHF antenna... so I doubt any are in VHF.)

This is the wrong thread for this discussion, so I expect this will be moved. TVFool is a great resource for determining what stations you can expect to receive. Alternately you can look in the OTA Reception Results (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=129) thread for your region.

In Buffalo, there is only one station that uses VHF-HI (WNGS on channel 7). For Toronto post transition CFTO, CKVR and CHCH will all be on VHF-HI (channels 9, 10 and 11 respectively), though the last two will be from Barrie and Hamilton.

Stampeder, thanks for the link. I wasn't aware of that particular artist or the classical music reference. I'm not that deeply into classical per se, but fascinating reading nonetheless. The anechoic chamber info was most intriguing...

WDCX is a Christian station with a lot of spoken word content, and I seem to remember that was what was being broadcast at the time. Their HD2 stream is contemporary Christian music. Obviously something had run afoul this morning.

Cameron

Quite a good tropo opening this evening on FM. Snagged another HD Radio station, with an interesting twist to the HD streams and callsign.

WLKK-FM 107.7MHz. Main FM audio of 930 WBEN. HD1, same. HD2, Rock music (which the station played previously). Great audio.

What's fascinating about this setup is WBEN, 930KHz AM is the prime FM and HD1 content with WLKK being the displayed callsign on the radio. The WBEN audio sounded very good.

This is the second AM station in Buffalo to appear on HD Radio.

An interesting trend.

Cameron

+1 - I was wondering if PBS had upped their power tonight.

Almost all the time, my Sony XDR-F1HD can't get enough signal to switch into HD for PBS (94.5). Last night it was mostly in HD. Which is terrible since the Sony hiccoughs and skips a beat each time it switches back and forth. Omitting an HD defeat switch for reception like that is a serious drawback (which can be fixed if you can solder using a microscope).

I noticed last night and this morning there is only 1 HD radio feed on WBFO-FM NPR from Buffalo, HD1 containing primary audio of the FM but in HD.

Hope this isn't permanent. I really enjoyed "On The Border" on HD2.

Cameron

Cam WBFO was back to normal last night,On the Border back on HD2

Sent in my donation to WNED-FM-PBS last night and said I wished we could get more watts in Toronto for HD listening. Thanks to the miraculous performance of the Sony HD tuner, I get fairly good FM-stereo almost all the time but rarely any snippets of HD this past year.

Got this nice reply:

"Thank you for supporting Classical 94.5. In regards to our signal strength in Toronto, unfortunately, our signal strength is deliberately limited by the CRTC and FCC in order to not interfere with other stations nearby on the dial.

We are grateful for the support of our listeners who do manage to get a signal in Ontario.

Thank you again."

Does anybody have a productive suggestion or other useful reply for them?

Frankly, I spend zero hours a week listening to the lowest-common-denominator programming 94.1 (AKA CBC 2) in Toronto. So I wouldn't mind if they just went away and left PBS with the bandwidth!*

Ben

*Or came to their senses and started playing classical music all the time.

How about if Radio 2 started broadcasting classical music on an HD channel, and obliterated WNED in the process?

Yes, options.

Viewed objectively, of course, I'd say too much nanny-regulation! Modern equipment ought easily keep 94.1 and 94.5 apart, at least if the broadcasters were careful (and surveilled).

Do the CRTC and FCC update their standards?

Ben

Not sure what you mean. AFAIK, HD Radio does not support second adjacencies. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The CRTC has nothing to do with Broadcast standards -- that is under the purview of the Spectrum Management Branch of Industry Canada.

I think WNED was referring to the Hamilton station on 94.7 causing interference with their HD signal and not being allowed more power for HD.94.7 keeps getting more power every few years.

according to this US radio industry article, I'd have to say that HD radio has been deemed a failure in the US... I'd think it would be wise for Canadian broadcasters to not worry about HD radio...

http://www.radio-info.com/programming/country/hd-radio-what-went-wrong

oops, no link...

sorry... link should be attached now...

It's an interesting look at the non-technical aspects of HD Radio in the wider context of the modern radio broadcasting business in the U.S., especially in regards to the Arbitron PPM audience-numbers system that is not directly related to HD Radio (it was rolled out at the same time).Anthony said one of the problems with HD Radio is that “It’s been marketed horribly.”Indeed! There is almost no buzz about it (excuse the pun) so there is almost no demand.

So, for Canadian broadcasters the lesson is to get a clear message out to listeners as to why their HD Radio signals would be desireable. Sadly as we've seen with the OTA DTV transition the broadcasters haven't got a clue how to sell the benefits of what they're doing. :rolleyes:

People won't understand the benefit of HD Radio until they buy a unit, and listen to a station offering the service.

But, there certainly has to be some sort of demand out there. Insignia just released a Boombox unit. Over at Best Buy USA, that unit has gone in back order status in no time. People must be buying HD Radio units.

Insignia NS-BHDIP01

There are a lot of differences between OTA DTV and HD Radio and it is difficult to compare. While you can argue the exact percentage, I am sure we can all agree that most people in North America receive TV stations via a BDU. This is not the case with radio and most people listen to radio OTA (with a large percentage in their car). As a result OTA DTV was all about getting permission to transmit in High Definition.

While satellite radio has enough customers to be profitable, it certainly doesn't have anywhere near the penetration that TV BDUs have and I don't think it will, as for most people, paying for radio is a tough sell since most people are happy with FM radio as it is good enough.

As a result, for Digital Radio (HD Radio, DAB or other) to succeed they need to make people think it is so much better than analog FM, that not only is it worth paying extra for when buying a radio (or a car), it is worth replacing their current radio (or car? lol ;)). That is what good marketing is all about, making people think they either need or really want something so badly that they will go out of their way to buy it.