I think that answers my question. While the carrier is FM, the signal is digital and also with, I suppose, some of the redundancies used in HD TV. Sounds good. Thanks.

HD Radio "works" in the AM band too, although the real world results have been lousy due to terrible interference with adjacent stations. It will likely stay FM-only unless/until the AM band was to go 100% digital.

The HD Radio site has been updated. A improvement on station lists by market.

http://www.hdradio.com/

Also check out the Pittsburgh market. Some stations offering a HD4.

That link proved rather interesting.

If you go to the Press Room area, go down to Nov. 6 2009, NPR & iBiquity strike deal.... There's some interesting info there.

1) Discussions of the power increase
2) Single frequency networks
3) Conditional Access.

1) This point's been talked about here so I won't repeat that discussion. :-)

2) The use of single frequency networks was to me a major benefit of DAB, but never tested here or even thought about.... It appears HD Radio uses similar transmission techniques for the digital streaming. CBC, ARE YOU LISTENING? HINT HINT... Great coverage can be had, and can conserve lots of spectrum... HD Radio in digital mode only using SFN's and multiple Radio 1's on a stream in mono... Ah yes... If DAD won't do it, HD Radio will... Lets think outside the box here.

3) Conditional Access, originally thought of for reading services for the blind, opens the door for the technology of paid services on HD channels. Although lightly glossed over in the press release, this was a big point of DAB also, but only thought about by CHUM Ltd. when they applied for a national music service to be distributed by DAB via subscription. That never got out the door either, and CTV nailed that one shut with it's purchase of CHUM.

So, looks like HD Radio could have some interesting uses up here. And, if sent digitally only..... (yeah, I can hear the screams from the analogue camp now.... :-) )

Cameron

Nice article in Wikipedia (search for IBOC) which includes tech stuff. Seems the digital stream is packed into some outer edges of the FM RF channel and isn't hidden inside the analog signal, the way the stereo-decode key is. So that means a more completely digital transmission. But when stations start adding more sub-channels, the sound can start to get shoddy.

Seems there's another more-or-less compatible IBOC system which has no royalities (iBiquity is a one-time royalty for stations, I think - but could be ongoing for manufacturers... which is OK).

The article refers to CRTC paper Public Notice CRTC 2006-160 which is an interesting read too (just do a "find" on IBOC), 2006. Clear as day it seems to say, "let a hundred flowers bloom" to quote Chairman Mao. It also says CBC-Toronto ran iBiquity for a while.

I wrote to PBS-Buffalo:

For various reasons, your Boston FM antenna is short and therefore not
serving the Niagara Falls or Ontario audience, even it is OK for Buffalo.
I learned I would need an antenna 430 feet high to get line-of-sight
signals.

Oddly enough, you neighbor in Boston, 102.5 a pop station, arrives at my
home with always-strong FM-HD - on two sub-channels! Pity.

Isn't there some modest improvement within the terms of your license that
would boost our reception at no cost to other receiving areas? Power,
direction of beam, or a little more height?

And I received this excellent reply from Joe Puma, VP for Engineering, who always provides excellent replies:

In short, WNED-FM is already a grandfathered super-power station at more than double the power and height of normal class B stations. This is because it was on the air before the rules were finalized, and any change (height, power, location etc.) could jeopardize our grandfathered status- especially so in the Canadian border zone.

WTSS (102.5) is also a grandfathered class B, but they were one of the very early FM stations in the country and were grandfathered into slightly more power at significantly more height. They're on the next hill over in Boston. WTSS is blessed with one of the best FM signals in the northeast.

We really are locked in. And in terms of FM stations in general, we are very fortunate to be where we are as one of the few stations in the tightly packed northeast that can boast power of over 100kW.

FYI, we will be doubling our HD Radio power sometime this summer.

Oops... I almost never get HD and then only for quarter-minutes at a time. If they double their power, my Sony tuner might be hopping between HD and FM-Stereo all the time - which is a bad pain in the ear.

So, all things considered, gotta wait and see.

(Hope the Moderator won't clobber this highly relevant footnote: There is a simple fix for the Sony circuit board to cancel the HD feature. Far more complex to add a manual switch so the user can choose auto or stereo-only mode.)

The reply I had gotten from WVPS-FM 107.9 in Burlington, VT was that their power increase would occur late summer/early fall. And that they were currently 4 times below the allowable HD power output by current FCC rules. So, if WNED-FM had their HD under the same rules, the power increase would be rather large. At that point your HD reception may really be good all the time.

Ben it seems the response from WNED FM was about their analog signal not whether they are at max power of 10% for HD.

Ben it seems the response from WNED FM was about their analog signal not whether they are at max power of 10% for HD.
But if the analog power doubles, doesn't 10% of that double too?

Ben WNED analog is already 110kw which is very high.When WNED went HD they were only allowed 1% of analog which is 1100 watts but they can go to 10% now 11000 watts but has WNED increased to max.Also remember adjacent to WNED at 94.7 is a Hamilton station which can interfere with HD sidebands.There is no way for WNED would be allowed to increase their power or height of their analog signal.The south Buffalo TV stations do have more height than the FM outlets.

CIWV, 94.7 here in Hamilton has had a power increase in the last year or so, and WNED isn't very strong here, unlike WTSS 102.5 from Buffalo, which is a lot stronger then WNED.

Last summer, WTSS had some kind of outage of the primary FM transmission while the HD signal continued. I seized the opportunity to observe the effects of the digital signal on first adjacent channels (102.3 and 102.7) with my Grundig G8. Also at this time was a fairly strong tropo event taking place that enhanced reception. On channel (102.5MHz) the signal meter showed significant signal strength but obviously nothing "detected", just limiter noise. On both first adjacent channels, nothing was heard but limiter noise, and the signal meter read "00:00". Once the FM modulated carrier returned, both first adjacent channels then showed significant signal strength and a louder "noise" could be heard above normal limiter noise. I find this needs more study, ie, the difference between the sidebands produced by a fully operational HD Radio signal and an HD Radio signal minus the FM modulated carrier. My Insignia HD Radio handheld radio happily decoded the digital signal without the FM carrier present which I find quite fascinating and leaves the door open to future digital only broadcasting.

Cameron

HD Radio digital only broadcast is probably the best way to go. But the FCC doesn't seem to have a date for such an event. And this won't happen until the FCC requires all radios and tuners sold in the US to be HD Radio ready.

But things might begin to change. I've read a few online articles about perhaps having all Sirius XM radios include a HD Radio on them. I've also read that the FCC is suppose to open the door for FM applications again. I didn't even know it was closed. How this will be done is beyond me as some markets are overloaded with stations.

Perhaps all of this will push their hand to act on HD Radio being in all future AM/FM radios and Tuners.

If all FM stations went HD Radio only. No more analog, some of the stuff I've read indicates that stations can run up to 7 streams. Plenty of markets have twin stick licenses. I think Clear Channel as seven stations in Chicago. 2 AM and 5 FM. With HD radio, all 7 of their streams can be accomplished with just 1 HD radio license. If such a thing happens, a lot of FM space would be created for new players.

Most markets can be served very well with 8 stations. Each sending out 7 streams. Total 56 radio station streams. Even if they only used 6 streams per station, that would still be 48 radio station streams.

We also have another problem. What will the FCC do with DTV channels 2-6.
It's clear that the frequencies used by these channels aren't ATSC friendly. I personally think that they should auction off those frequencies for other uses. But, keep 87.5-88.0 for FM. The current HD Radios seem to have those frequencies on them. Make those frequencies HD Radio digital only, and license them at 10kw each. That is about 100kw in analog mode. Strong signals. And space them far apart so as not to effect each other in other markets. Example, if a station in NYC gets a license on 87.5, then perhaps the next station to get that frequency would be in Portland, Maine. Far enough not to interfere with each other, but a strong enough signal to make HD radio tuning easy for the listener. Then slowly, set dates to have 88.1fm -89.1 go digital only, and so on, until the whole FM band is digital only. With all these HD sub-channels on the FM stations, the AM band might one day be vacant, and they can auction off that as well for other uses. With all those vacant FM spots, most stations will probably be able to even increase their power outputs as some stations will become HD sub-channels to their main station.

But, the first steps need to be taken. So far though, nothing!

Tuned in 98.5 WKSE and noticed HD2 was labelled "Sportsradio WGR 55 HD-2"

Interesting....

Simulcast of 550KHz AM or move to 98.5 HD2 and vacate 550KHz AM...

www.hdradio.com still shows comedy as HD2 for WKSE.

We'll have to see how this plays out.

Cameron

I would be shocked if WGR vacates 550am.

Yeah, like WGR has been there since man had hair.... :-) :-)

That's what cought my attention too...

Cameron

With all these HD sub-channels on the FM stations, the AM band might one day be vacant, and they can auction off that as well for other uses.

This has been discussed in the What could become of the AM Band? (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=94675) thread, but I feel it is important to have at least one AM radio station per market to provide emergent information. This could be a commercial station that is simulcast on an HD Radio stream, or it could be public radio service that provides community information (possibly a tape loop).

With there being so few local AM radio stations, the DXing opportunities these days are amazing!

Ya see WGR 550 Sportsradio.Dont see the purpose of having duplicate of AM550

Dont see the purpose of having duplicate of AM550

Are you serious? How many people people have HD radios? Maybe 10%. How many people have AM radios? I would say close to 100%. Dropping AM would be a massive drop in market.

That would be like a shopping mall saying that because they now have a helicopter pad, they no longer need a parking lot. Ya, that is a bit extreme, but you get the point.

Also don't forget that there is a chunk of WGR listerns in Ontario, as their signal hits Toronto pretty well (I have had reliable reception in my car up to Newmarket). They would lose that Canadian demographic.