I don't believe she knows what she's talking about - HDCP affects displays only. (DVI/HDMI connections - see the followng link)

http://www.digital-cp.com/home

HDCP has nothing to do with 5C, which affects recording via firewire,

or Broadcast flags, which affects recording of certain programming,

or Macrovision which can affect analogue signals.

Currently, I don't believe there are any broadcast flags (at least not in US programming).

As I've stated repeatedly, something in a firmware upgrade has affected not only the 5C settings, but also some sort of macrovision protection.

Both of which Shaw needs to figure out how to turn off because people need to be able to use their DVD recorders (and HTPCs, since there's no reason to have 5C=1 on any of the channels you've listed (I could understand it on a Premium channel).

Someone needs to get in touch with a technican at Shaw who knows about these things, not some CSR.

Here's some additional info, but remember Wikipedia is not always correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

http://www.theprojectorpros.com/learn.php?p=theater_hdcp

my problem isnt with just those 2 channels though , its EVERY channel that i can't record from , i don't even watch tsn or ctv

All the other HD channels are unencrypted. If you're having a problem, it is not due to an encrypted signal or DRM issue.

Has anyone got any updates regarding this situation? I guess this can be considered a *bump* :D

There were come recent posts about how to circumvent 5C. Those posts have been deleted based on my assumption that that action would not be legal.

Please feel free to continue any legal 5C discussions in this thread.

I have been experiencing the same problems with ALL SHAW channels, from 2 to 310 and this is the explanation I got from Shaw today:

" It seems from the information that we have received that the
broadcasters also did there own upgrade to their channels. The issue is
related to Digital Rights Management and how programming may now be
secured.Evidently if you are using a device to record that is not HDCP
compliant you will receive this message, HDCP = High Bandwidth Digital
Content. In addition from the investigations that have gone into this
issue Shaw is not able to make any changes to this update as it was not
instigated by our company. We have been informed that you will receive
this message for any program in the system that has copy right
protection added to it unless you have a HDCP compliant device with
which you are doing the recording."

This is a change implemented by the broadcasters, not by Shaw. As a
cable provider, we simply pass on the signal provided by the
broadcaster. If your dvd recorder does not meet the broadcaster's
standards, we would be unable to assist. The change made to allow
ordering of VOD on high definition boxes would not affect the ability to
record.

(...)
As we stated previously, this change is not one that Shaw has made, but
one the broadcasters have made. Our offered service is to deliver the
signal as provided by the broadcaster. We are unable to alter this
signal; but simply forward it from the broadcaster.

You may direct any changes made by broadcasters either by contacting the
broadcaster directly, or you may contact the CRTC. The toll free number
is 1-877-249-2782.

In a nutshell, we are all screwed by Shaw. I have no idea where to get a second, HDCP-compliant VCR or DVD recorder, and quite frankly I don't think I should. If anyone out there knows how I can simply record the shows I can't watch while am at work... for my own consumption, please let me know. Unless I can get some sort of resolution from Shaw by Jan. 5, the HD and cable subscription are going back and I am moving onto Bell Satellite HDTV.

Thank you in advance. BTW: if you have alternatie solutions, please email me directly.

Have you or anyone out there had any luck with SIMA GoDVD!? I am short of being desperate as the new season of Lost is starting up and I can't watch it in the time slotted.

To the Moderator: since SIMA's primary function is to convert analogue signal to digital and any extrenous processing is purely incidental, this solution cannot be considered illega and does discussion of this solution does not fit within the realm of illegal discussion. Do you agree?

...The issue isrelated to Digital Rights Management...

and so it begins..

it is perfectly legal for a broadcaster to make thousands of peoples hardware obsolete overnight with a flick of a switch, and they then make it law that you are not allowed "free speech" of "fair use" to get around it.

they the broadcasters moan when the public dont watch their sh*t, and then blame everything on a new in word "pirate" or what seems to be getting added to that "terrorists".


so basically all you people with recording devices without HDCP are Pirates or Terrorists, nice of them huh.

but no doubt this post will get deleted too. so carry on doing nothing about it.

you all allowed this to happen, so just get your checkbooks out and bend over and pay the man...

i say it how i see it.

There seem to be two different issues. virage and beefgravy have not provided details about their setup or location so what they are experiencing may or may not be experienced by others.

However, in Vancouver, with Shaw Cable on a 6412 I can firewire capture all content without any difficulty except for TSN-HD and CTV-HD. Since these two stations are BGM properties, clearly they have either encrypted it themselves (5C=1) or required Shaw to do so. All other Shaw content is unencrypted.

thats because your 6412 is HDCP compliant. so of course this action doesnt hurt you "until they turn on 5C=1" on all channels, and then everyone will suddenly take notice i guess.

i want to see what the movie industry will blame for their losses on about 5-6yrs after all this stuff is completely secured. i suppose they will find another scape goat to blame, for trying to sell crap to the dumb consumers.

they have taken away all your rights, they want their pie and eat it too.

ps: All of Shaws content is encrypted, otherwise you wouldn't need a STB. what they decide to turn on and when is up to them.

Yes, the 6412 is DCHP compliant, but the firewire capture card in my PC isn't. Of course Shaw's content is encrypted. They give you what you pay for (if you don't want channel X ... the won't let your box decrypt it).

However, I think the real question is, what content have you paid Shaw for that you are unable to archive through some reasonable means? The only channels that I am unable to do so with are the two BGM properties which certainly seems like Shaw's not the issue ... Bell is.

What rights of mine has Shaw taken away? My reasonable personal use rights? Nope ... it does seem like Bell may have though.

People, the information in post 65 from Shaw is INCORRECT. HDCP has nothing whatsoever to do with recording.

Post 67 simply parroted what was already provided in post 57, which is also INCORRECT.

In the second last paragraph they talk about HDCP compliant VCRs and DVD recorders. Please, HDCP doesn't apply to analogue signals which VCRs and DVD Recorders use.

If there were a signal in the programming, everyone who tries to record that programme would be affected the same way and that's not happening - we're seeing different effects in different areas on different equipment.

Please re-read my explanation in post 61.

What Shaw is telling you is erroneous, bullsh*t and obfuscation.

We've been "down this road more than twice". You need to stop dealing with CSRs and start dealing with second or third level technical personnel who know what they're talking about.

I have been experiencing the same problems with ALL SHAW channels, from 2 to 310 and this is the explanation I got from Shaw today:

"This is a change implemented by the broadcasters, not by Shaw. As a
cable provider, we simply pass on the signal provided by the
broadcaster. If your dvd recorder does not meet the broadcaster's
standards, we would be unable to assist. The change made to allow
ordering of VOD on high definition boxes would not affect the ability to
record."

Obviously these CSRs and the braintrust behind them is misleading the subscribers by feeding them erroneous information. They expect us to actually believe that all of the broadcasters decided to implement this "change" at the same time!? Every single channel, analog and digital, cannot be recorded by devices using a set top box connection - it's got nothing to do with HDCP. And yes, this "change" did occur at the same time the VOD update was implemented.

So come on Shaw, stop feeding us a convenient "the broadcasters did it" excuse - put on your thinking caps and get this problem resolved before the #hit hits the fan! What excuse will you be giving the retailers who question why so many of the DVD Recorders they sold over the holidays are now all of a sudden being returned because they don't play nice with your HD set top boxes? :(

This is definitely a SHAW problem and not a 'BROADCASTERS' problem as 57 has noted.

Out here on the east coast, Rogers carries many of the same channels as Shaw and I have had zero problems with recordings throughout the same time period using an external DVR connected via analog to a Rogers 6208 box.

Hopefully someone at Shaw will wrap their head around this in the next day or so.

I had the same problem on my 6200 after Shaw did the VOD upgrade. I could no longer record to my Pioneer DVD recorder. Shaw came in and gave me all kinds of stories that it was my recorder, it was broadcasters encoding thier signal etc. The technition took a look at how I was physically connected, and when he went behind the TV he accidentaly unplugged the 6200. It now works. Maybe everyone who has this prob just need to do a complete reboot by unplugging.

This may be a dumb question...If I hook up a DVD recorder to my 6412 (PVR), am I able to record HD footage as well. Will it play back with some measure of quality? Is there a brand recommended??

toby

Hey guys, maybe one of you can further exlain this with me...

I have a 6200 AND a 6412. I live in Calgary. I can record all channels just fine with my 6412 through S-Video AND Firewire (except TSN of course.) I CANNOT record anything with my 6200. So there is definetely something different going on between these 2 boxes.

Can anyone suggest what it is? I know what 57 is saying but you have to admit it seems rather strange that the HDCP compliant device is the one able to record...

This is so bloody frustrating...

Reply to post #75:

not in real HD footage no, but you should get a 720x480 anolog result yes.

i was doing this through my hauppauge pvr150 tv tuner card with the co-ax output from my dsr500 starchoice, before i got the 6412 shaw box.

result was a 16:9 analog capture which looked pretty good actually.

i cant say about a dvd recorder tho.

I am not a technical person, but I wanted to contribute in case it is of any use in sorting out this problem.

I subscribe to Shaw in Vancouver. I run the cable into a Motorola 5100. From the Motorola, I send the three separate color cables into a Panasonic DVR recorder. From the Panasonic, I send an S-VHS cable to my HD ready Toshiba projection TV.

While my previous, hi-def picture, I am told, was not ideal because the Panasonic did not have separate colour outputs (only S-VHS) to the TV, the day I went Hi-Def turned my Projection TV from a picture far inferior to a tube tv to a wonderful watching experience. For two years, I recorded HD without problems and was ecstatic when Letterman finally went HD.

At the same time as the rest of you first experienced problems recording, I experienced problems only while recording HD stations. Over two days I dealt with the Hi Def technicians on the phone.

On the first occasion, I was told that the VOD upgrade to enable recording from the remote was interfering somehow with my ability to record HiDef, but if I agreed that I did not need VOD, the VOD would be disabled and I could record Hi Def. While on the phone, the tech turned things on and off again and we tested and found that I could record HiDEf.

The next morning, I again could not record HiDef. The tech I talked to read my notes and determined that he could do a deeper disablement of my VOD capabilities. I agreed to do that. Once again, the tech pushed the buttons oh his/her end and I could record HiDef.

The next day, I could not record HiDef. The tech on the phone told me it was copyrighted and that they did not know about the copyright before. I respectfully told him that I did not know who to believe because the two previous techs told me another story. I was passed on to someone higher up who told me that an encryption had been allowed by the CRTC and that the only way I could record HiDef was to trade in my 5100 for the Motorola PVR with built in hard drive. This would cost me a net $550. He told me to complain to the CRTC. I asked him whether he was telling me that the bad guy pirates could not get the information off the hard drive of the PVR. He told me that he wouldn't say that. He said that bad guys could still technically find a way to copy information off the hard drive.

I asked him why the two previous fixes had reverted back. He said someone higher up must have detected the fixes and reversed them as the techs should not have been doing whatever they did. This alone leads me to believe that there is indeed something that Shaw can do to reverse this problem. Otherwise, would the fixes have unfixed themselves without human interference? Somebody tell me.

Meanwhile, for a while, like some others, I could record CBCHD and CTVHD and perhaps PBSHD. But that has all gone away.

Does this help?

reply to #78

and so the plot thickens..

they basically told you to buy a $700 STB huh... great customer support shaw..

Further reply to 78. It is possible that the STB itself "reset" overnight, or when it turned off and the "force" that Shaw "sent" to your STB didn't "stick".

Whatever Shaw have implemented here is incorrect and probably illegal if it precludes recording 480i on an analogue device like a VCR or DVD Recorder. They need to be made aware of this if a "hard reboot" of the STB doesn't resolve the issue as mentioned earlier.

It is also probably illegal if it interferes with firewire (HD) recording of "OTA-type" signals which are to be "flagged" record freely. (Channels like NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS.)