what is KNRR ERP going to be? they were transmitting 4.44 KW i am hoping they're transmit with an ERP of 750 KW

I have just installed some equipment and am looking for feedback on the results.

I live in Saskatoon. My understanding is that CBC, CTV and Global have towers about 20 kms northeast of the city.

My reception in south Saskatoon was viewable on CBC, quite poor on CTV and almost impossible to tell what was on the screen on Global. The channels are 11, 8 and 4.

I installed a 4221 HD on an 8 foot mast and attached it to my metal chimney. I ran 50 feet of line to a CM 3414 distribution amp. From there a used 75 feet of line to 3 TV sets in the house.

The improvement in picture quality was siginificant. CBC picture is very good with no ghosting. CTV is also much better with some faint ghosting. Global picture is also a huge improvement but picture still has some "snow" throughout. The "snow" seems to vary depending on what appliances are running in the house but the picture is never clear.

I wasn't sure where to post this. I have done alot of reading on this website and have learned alot but I am still a rookie and am looking for advice.

Are my results as good as it gets? Can I expect more in terms of reception from the Global tower in Saskatoon? If so, what should I try next?

Also, can't seem to find the discussion forum on OTA for Saskatchewan. Can't believe I'm the only guy who doesn't want to pay for cable in Saskatchewan!

Thanks for your help and advice.

Hi ccdouglas, the chief problem with your reception is that all of the Saskatoon TV stations (4, 8, 11, and 13) are in the VHF band while the antenna you bought is for the UHF band even though it can get VHF-HI stations fairly well in local situations like yours. Keep in mind that some of those stations will switch to UHF in the future, as you can look up here for their status and locations:

http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/

My advice is to do these things:

buy a VHF/UHF Combo antenna (see the Antenna Chart) to get those VHF stations loud and clear today with the UHF stations loud and clear in the future
sell your CM4221HD
with all that cable you're using I sure hope it is RG6
due to the long cable run you are using, mount a really strong VHF/UHF preamp right up there with the new antenna
have your preamp output to a splitter to the TVs or add in the distribution amp only if you really need it

what is KNRR ERP going to be? they were transmitting 4.44 KW i am hoping they're transmit with an ERP of 750 KW
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/eng_tv.pl?Facility_id=55362 says post transition will be at

ERP: 4.44kw
HAAT: 427m
RCAMSL: 674m
RCAGL: 430.8m

whether that changes or not, I dunno, but for some reason I doubt it. Too many disappointments for me to get my hopes up :)

do you think that the signal will reach winnipeg?

do you think that the signal will reach winnipeg?
Let's just say I hope they do up the power.

From fcc.gov (https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=781143&formid=337&q_num=5000):

Request for Extension of Digital Television Construction Deadline
On January 14, 2009, the Commission granted KNRR a construction permit for its post-
transition DTV facilities on Channel 12.1 However, by that time, due to the severe winter
conditions already occurring in Pembina, North Dakota, KNRR could not immediately begin
construction of its post-transition digital facilities.
Once the severe winter weather of Pembina, North Dakota had set in and the Commission
had not yet granted KNRR’s post-transition digital construction permit, it became clear that
KNRR would not be able to conduct a timely DTV transition. Accordingly, on December 18,
2008, KNRR filed a Form 337 application for extension of time to construct its post-transition
digital facilities.2 The Commission granted this extension request on January 23, 2009, thereby
extending the expiration date of KNRR’s post-transition digital construction permit to August
18, 2009.
KNRR’s construction was further delayed because of the economic issues faced by the
station. As previously reported to the Commission, throughout KNRR’s history, the station has
not been profitable in terms of actual revenues or cashflow. These circumstances have forced
KNRR in the past to consider surrendering its license. Due to the economic downturn and the
large capital costs that would be required for KNRR to construct digital facilities, it again had to
carefully consider whether to surrender its license. Ultimately, however, as a public service,
KNRR determined that it would expend the necessary costs to operate KNRR as a digital station.
As a result of these necessary financial deliberations, however, KNRR did not order the
necessary equipment for its digital operations until late Spring 2009. The anticipated delivery
date for this equipment is early September 2009, and KNRR anticipates that it will complete the
construction of its post-transition digital facilities on or before October 18, 2009.
KNRR’s situation is rather unique. Because KNRR could not conduct a timely DTV
transition, on January 27, 2009, it filed an Engineering STA3 seeking authority to continue its
analog operations post-transition because it could not undertake one of the Commission’s digital
phased transition procedures. KNRR’s pre-transition digital operations were on Channel 15.
Continuing these operations beyond the June 12, 2009 DTV transition would have caused
impermissible interference to a new digital station which began its operations on Channel 15 on
June 12, 2009. In addition, as noted, KNRR does not have the necessary equipment to have
constructed reduced-power facilities on Channel 12, its allotted post-transition DTV channel. On
May 28, 2009, the Commission denied KNRR’s STA request to continue analog operations
beyond June 12, 2009. As a consequence, on June 10, 2009, KNRR filed a Legal STA request
seeking to remain silent until such time as it might complete construction of its permanent digital
facilities.4 This STA request remains pending.


Most stations conducting a phased-transition had their construction deadlines
automatically extended from August 18, 2009 to October 18, 2009.5 However, because KNRR
was denied a phased transition STA, KNRR now seeks an explicit extension of the deadline to
complete construction of its post-transition digital facilities until October 18, 2009. KNRR
believes that the automatic extension granted to stations with phased transition STAs is equally
applicable to its situation, but makes the present request out of an abundance of caution.
An extension to the deadline for the construction of KNRR’s post-transition DTV
facilities is necessary for KNRR to continue to have the opportunity to build permanent post-
transition DTV facilities, and thus once again provide its valuable broadcast service to viewers in
and around its community of license. This extension therefore would serve the public interest.
KNRR thus respectfully requests that the Commission extend the deadline for the construction of
its post-transition DTV facilities to October 18, 2009. This extension would be in accord with
other, more typical, phased transition stations. As noted, KNRR anticipates that it will complete
the construction of its permanent DTV facilities on Channel 12 on or before October 18, 2009.

Hi - I'm just getting into the digital tv stuff and read a lot of threads to learn about what I need to get to receive OTA DTV. Is there any station near Winnipeg that is actually transmitting in digital? I read a thread that CBC and CKY was but I have tried the coat hanger antenna and found nothing. So either the channels are VHF and the antenna only picks up UHF or the stations are not transmitting in digital. Has anyone in Winnipeg have any luck getting DTV or is it wait until 2011?
Also. . . . any help in selecting a good antenna for Winnipeg would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

Is there any station near Winnipeg that is actually transmitting in digital?

Not in Winnipeg. KNRR may be watchable after October with a good antenna.

So the "OP" at the status site just means that the station is operational and not that it is transmitting. . . . bummer
Gives us more time to build an antenna that can receive VHF Chanel 2 - 13 and UHF Ch 14 -51. We will need VHF for KNRR if they transmit with enough power.
Time to lobby?

Use the IC data only for Canada and the FCC site only for American stations. Unfortunately each is not up-to-date on the other's data.

Thanks.
I was a bit too enthusiastic and loaded with wishful thinking when I looked at the information at the site. (Non the less a good find.) I have tried to build an antenna but with no stations transmitting there is no way to test the design and see if it works before I make a respectable antenna that you don't mind having on your roof. I am having a hard time finding parts like some good standoffs and aluminum rods (copper is too heavy). Maybe in Grand Forks? I'm going there next week for a get away. :rolleyes:
Need to look for KNRR and see if there is more info to track!

This is the information I was looking at if interested.
http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/MB.html

Hi all, wasn't sure where to post this, since it's regarding OTA, but not digital, just old fashioned analog.

My goal is to tune in good ol' analog CBC, channel 9 in Regina, OTA. I bought an Elgato EyeTV Hybrid USB tv tuner for my iMac, so I can record Hockey Night in Canada, instead of watching the Internet streams. The card is fine, software works, nice setup.

The problem is my CBC reception is very poor. Unstable, tons of noise, bleeding colours, snow. Occasionally I can get it to come in good enough to suffer through, but with the start of the hockey season upon us, I would love to do it better.

I'm currently using an old (90's?) RCA antenna, it's got the aerials and a loop antenna, and a 7 position knob that switches from UHF to VHF. Seems like I have to play with this antenna for 10 minutes every time I go to watch something. Is this normal? The right aerial is a little loose or floppy, so I'm open to buying a new antenna if it'll help!

I live in a two story town house apartment, on the ground floor, if that info helps.

I also get CTV and French CBC with similar problems, although weaker than the English CBC, and my local Global doesn't come in strong enough to pick up at all. I'm really just concerned with HNIC though.

If I'm reading the antenna Decision Chart pdf correctly, I should probably buy a CM4220 or a Silver Sensor clone? Or are those overkill for my needs?

I'm trying to avoid several trips to buy/return various antennas, would love to get it solved in one trip (or order online if I have to). Thanks for any help!

Hi OddyOh, which part of Regina are you in? You only need simple rabbit ears for CBC Channel 9 in Regina. The loop parts of indoor antennas won't help so don't spend a whole lot of money on gee whiz indoor antennas. :)

You need to put the elements straight out flat to the sides horizontally, and they need to be at a right angle perpendicular to the direction of the CBC tower out east of town.

Then while you've got CBC selected on Channel 9 on your TV extend the elements together outwards all the way. After that, try pushing in both elements about an inch at a time, always keeping them the same length of the other, moving one as you also move the other in synch. Keep doing that and hopefully you'll arrive at the ideal element length.

Hopefully there are no interference problems you might be facing that we might need to deal with.

Let us know how it goes! :)

I agree with stampeder. Knowing which direction the signals are coming from and having the antenna perpendicular to it is the first step. The other thing is tuning the length of the antenna to the station you are trying to receive is the other step. Stampeder's suggestion of shortening both sides by an inch at a time is a good one. Another rule of thumb I often use is for VHF-HI (channels 7-13) is to shorten them to about 1/2 the full length. Not as accurate but it is easy and works well.

If you do decide to replace the antenna, some things to think about are:

Make sure it is a VHF antenna (for indoor antennas rabbit ears are the only option here). Even post transition everything is scheduled to be VHF in Regina.
Don't get one with an amplifier (useless at best for indoor antennas and it often make things worse).

Hi Stampeder & Roger! Thanks so much for the tips!

I've been playing around with this antenna for the better part of the evening, and it's much improved from where I last had it, thanks to your advice.

I'm in the south east of Regina, by the University. I can't believe I hadn't tried this before, but once I turned the antenna perpendicular, it was instantly much improved! :) Also, French CBC (13) and CTV (2) come in much better now. No sign of Global, but who cares.

There are still some wavy lines in the picture, but it's definitely much more watchable now, not sure if anything more can be done. I can only do so much to adjust the aerials, as I have it sitting on the top of my computer desk, close to the wall. In fact, I've still got them in pretty much a "V" formation at the moment, just for convenience...otherwise they'll poke me in the head when I get up from my desk!!

Anyway, here's a pic of my setup (http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddyoh/3986332184/), you can perhaps even see the wavy lines on the screen. I was using an old Radio Shack coax amplifier that plugs into an outlet (also in that picture), but I've removed it now and it doesn't seem to have made it any worse, as per Roger's comments. I assume that does that same thing as an amplified antenna.

See what you think of this pic, and thanks again for your expertise! I may still try another antenna at some point, but this is definitely much better than what I had!

OddyOh, that is looking pretty good. The only other suggestion I can make is try to get the antenna even higher. Elevation is your friend. One option would be to buy a cheap ($10) pair of rabit ears without UHF antenna and mount them up near the ceiling. You would likely need a 300 ohm to 75 ohm Balun (transformer). Alternately you could make a folded dipole antenna.

Here's a thread full of great info and links to help you diagnose what is happening in your own case with the wavy lines:

Terminology of Analogue OTA (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=105230)

It seems to be a case of the signal being too powerful, for which you can use tricks like an attenuator, a couple of splitters, or a very long run of coax to lessen the signal (see the OTA FAQ for more info). That's just a preliminary guess, so do the reading and let us know how it goes! :)

Thanks for the help fellas, my CBC is looking good now, and will serve me well this season! I'm pretty much only using it to watch hockey in a window on the desktop, switching to full screen if something exciting happens (as a Leafs fan, that may not be too often this year!) :). And with the Elgato stick, now I can record the second game and watch it Sunday morning, like when I used to pay through the nose for HD...but without paying through the nose for HD. :cool:

I'm getting my other antenna back from my brother this weekend, so I'll give that one a whirl next week, see how it compares, but I'm good with how this is looking in any event.

Will definitely check out your FAQs and guides, tons of helpful info around this forum! Keep up the good work!

So the "OP" at the status site just means that the station is operational and not that it is transmitting. . . . bummer
Not sure what you mean -- all the 'OP' stations ARE transmitting. But there are no digital 'OP' stations in Manitoba, only analog.