Thanks RamKat, now time for alot more reading and research.

Bruce

Im on the 12th floor, but the building is at a low elevation being almost in the market. I had much better reception on the 7th floor at meadowlands and fisher.

Thanks for the info. I'm near Bank and Hunt Club on the fifth floor, facing west. I was hoping to catch the Watertown PBS stations but with the help of TV Fool and a compass, I was disappointed to learn they're just behind the edge of the building, from my balcony.

I was thinking of getting a 91XG to pull them in, but I don't see the point of even trying as most of the channels from HC (also behind my building) suffer from having to go through the building before I can pick them up, and HC is just 14 miles away, not 70.

Maybe some day I'll give it a try but I'm not depending on getting anything, and that makes me less willing to spend the time and money.

Thanks for the info. I'm near Bank and Hunt Club on the fifth floor, facing west. I was hoping to catch the Watertown PBS stations but with the help of TV Fool and a compass, I was disappointed to learn they're just behind the edge of the building, from my balcony.

You're probbly rightr, but to double check, I would use TVFool's TV Maps feature and the satellite view to double check the angle for WNPI-DT on ch 23. You're probsbly too far for WCFE.

Are there any tall buildings west of you? You may be able to get Plattsburg or Norwood off a bounce. I used to get WWTI Watertown analog twenty years ago at Merivale and Baseline by pointing a yagi NORTH at an office building during favourable tropo conditions.

Wow! First of all, thanks to everyone here for providing nuggets of info all over this forum.

After reading this OTA thread, I wanted to try it out and see what I could get in my area just for fun. I saw a great deal on a OTA 4-bay antenna for under $20, so I bought it. I then installed the antenna over the long weekend inside my attic (~ 35 feet high). Was sweaty work considering the temperature in the attic. Initially, I was not sure how many channels I would get since I'm located in the Greely area near the Herbert Corners tower. I hanged my antenna upside down using the coax (I figured what the hell) and tie-wrapped it to part of the roof truss for ease of installation.

Then I made a 45+ foot RG6 coax cable and connected it to the HDTV's ATSC tuner and managed to pick up quite a few channels. I then amplified it and got more digital channels! This is the list below.

Digital (14 channels)
-------
4.1 25.1 CBOT-DT CBC Ottawa, ON CF
9.1 22.1 CBOFT-DT SRC Ottawa, ON CF
16.1 WPBS-1 PBS Watertown, NY
16.2 WPBS-2 Create/ThinkBright Watertown, NY
16.3 WPBS-HD PBS Watertown, NY
18.1 23.1 WNPI-DT PBS-SD Norwood, NY
18.2 23.2 WNPI-DT THINK&CREATE Norwood, NY
18.3 23.3 WNPI-DT PBS-HD Norwood, NY
20.1 20.1 CKXT-DT SUN-HD Ottawa, ON CF
20.2 20.2 CKXT-DT SUN-SD Ottawa, ON CF
27.1 27.1 CFMT-DT OMNI1 Ottawa, ON HC
50.1 WWTI-DT ABC Watertown, NY
50.2 WWTI-2 CW Watertown, NY
66.1 66.1 CJMT-DT OMNI2 Ottawa, ON HC

Analog (15 channels)
------
4 CBOT CBC Ottawa, ON CF
6 CIII GLOBAL Ottawa, ON CF
9 CBOFT SRC Ottawa, ON CF
11 CHCH E! Ottawa, ON HC
13 CJOH CTV Ottawa, ON CF
14 CJMT OMNI2 Ottawa, ON HC
24 CICO TVO Ottawa, ON CF
26 CBOT CBC Ottawa, ON CF
30 CIVO TQ Ottawa, ON CF
32 CITS CTS Ottawa, ON HC
34 CFGS TQS Ottawa, ON CF
40 CHOT TVA Ottawa, ON CF
43 CHRO A Chan Ottawa, ON HC
60 CFMT OMNI1 Ottawa, ON HC
65 CITY CITY Ottawa, ON HC

Note:- The 50.1, 50.2 channels worked on some days for like 30 mins or longer, then signal is lost.

Was not able to get these digital + analog following channels below;

Digital
------
7.1x 7.1 WWNY-DT CBS Watertown, NY
7.2x 7.2 WNYF-DT FOX Watertown, NY
57.1x 38.1 WCFE-DT PBS-SD Plattsburgh, NY
57.2x 38.2 WCFE-DT PBS-HD Plattsburgh, NY
57.3x 38.3 WCFE-DT THINK Plattsburgh, NY

Analog
------
36x CKWS CBC/E! Smiths Falls, ON

Does anyone know what can be done to also get these channels? Just curious if that's even possible in my location.

Otherwise, it was a great experiment for me. Now I have to choose between either cable analog and OTA as the antenna inputs to my TV. :D:D:D

:cool:Congratulations with your setup. Is your antenna pointing in a fixed direction or do you you have to turn it either towards CF or NY? (You should receive HC with a paper clip) If in a fixed direction which direction is it pointing at?

Analog channels look like what could be expected. Channel 26 from CF is a bit new? Is that from CF or from Brockville? I can get channel 36 but only if I point the antenna towards Franktown it - a tad snowy but watchable- not worth while .

According to a TVFool for the middle of Greely you should be able to get 57.1 - maybe aiming it at the tower would help? But then 57.1 is in TV fools outside antenna catagory?? 7.1 has a negative NM - not much hope with a UHF BT. Do you receive 16.1 24/7 or only certain times of the day - with a NM of -10dB it looks like maybe a tropo - as is 50.1?

What pre-amp do you use?

I think Channel 26 is CKWS Cornwall not CBOT Ottawa.

Nice results lawman. I think I know the antenna you are talking about and I was tempted by the price though this forum doesn't like that brand. ;)

I agree with tlamothe and 26 is CKWS from Cornwall and not CBOT. CKWS is a private CBC affiliate and thus shows much of the same programming, though there are a few differences, some of which are quite useful.

For 7.X you will need a VHF antenna, but with one you should have a good shot at picking it up from Greely (though check TVFool to be sure).

For 57.X (on 38) you will likely need to point the antenna more towards the east.

As for analog 36, it is low power and it would be very difficult to receive east of Kanata, but you are getting it on 26 instead.

As Roger points out, 26 and 36 are both repeaters of Corus-owned CBC affiliate CKWS Kingston.

The channel 26 repeater is licensed to Prescott, with the transmitter located near Spencerville. Ch. 36 is licensed to Smiths Falls, with the transmitter located in Franktown.

For 7.X you will need a VHF antenna, but with one you should have a good shot at picking it up from Greely (though check TVFool to be sure).

If/when WWNY gets its application approved to flash cut WNYF Massena to digital, it will be broadcasting with 4 kW from the old WNPI tower in South Colton. It will have both WWNY CBS, and WNYF Fox.

The channel 26 repeater is licensed to Prescott, with the transmitter located near Spencerville.

Yes, you are right. I should have double checked my facts first before posting.

Has anyone in the area used a CM-2016?

I've finally mounted my CM-4221HD and it's wonderful. The only problem is with aiming. If I point it toward HC, everything is great, except CTV. Of course CTV is the single station I watch most often. If I point it toward CF, a half-dozen other stations suffer.

Given that CTV is VHF-hi and that it will remain there after the transition, I thought I could fix this quite nicely with a second antenna to handle the VHF-hi range.

I'm in an apartment so an antenna with a two metre boom isn't going to work. The Winegard HD-1080 is appealing but I can't find it via mail order in Canada and I'm skeptical because it's so small. The CM-2016 is certainly bigger but not unreasonably big. My only concern is that the gain figures for VHF-hi seem lackluster. On the other hand, I'm using a UHF-only antenna now, with fair results.

I'm willing to give it a try with a 7778 pre-amp but I thought I'd ask here first.

Hi, I am in Brockville and have currently just got a monoprice antenna connected outside on my deck. We live about 2 blocks from the river and are on the top of a hill. We can actually see the USA from upstairs when the leaves fall off the trees :) (sort of like Sarah Palin and Russia)

I regularly get
WPBS-DT
WWTI-DT
WNPI-DT

and occasionally, but rarely get:
WWNY-DT
CBOTF

and got once due to some tropo something:
CBOT and SUN, (this morning)
WTEN, WKTV and WCWN (yesterday morning)


Here is my tv fool map:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8ecd022c9ac3cd

I would like some advice on antenna that would secure the WWNY on a regular basis, and/or if I would be able to get ottawa stations with any kind of regularity. Thanks!

Thanks RamKat.

My antenna is pointing in a fixed direction - roughly south-south-east from looking at google maps. I don't think its exactly pointed at the HC transmitter.

Trust me, with all that climbing inside a confined attic space to fish in coax cables, I don't think I would do want to try it with a paper clip to pickup OTA reception .. :-)
It was hot in the attic... :)

I'll check the 16.x channels. I picked it up all day yesterday. I'll see if it goes away. I was able to watch it for a few hours yesterday.

I used a broadband 10dB gain amplifier. I probably should have used a preamp but I don't want the preamp to be in the attic. Does it make sense to use a preamp (instead of an amplifier) after the coax cable run prior to going into ATSC tuner?

Does it make sense to use a preamp (instead of an amplifier) after the coax cable run prior to going into ATSC tuner?

If you're woried about the heat in the attic being too much for a preamp, you could still mount the preamp just outside the attic (where it enters the house, if that's how you've routed it.)

Good preamps generally have better noise figures han distribution amps, so a preamp would be preferable. However, in greely, you may be too close to Herberts Corners to use a preamp. (This might improve in 2011, when most of the transmitters will switch to lower power levels than they are using on analog.)

rpali, Both the HD-1080 and the CM-2016 are combo VHF-Hi/UHF antennas. If you already have a CM-4221HD, why not just buy a cheep pair of rabbit ears (the type without a UHF loop), tune it for channel 13 and use a VHF/UHF band combiner to connect the two antennas together.

Unless you have a long run of coax or are splitting the signal, I wouldn't bother with a pre-amp.

Thanks for your comment, Roger!

I'm especially appreciative because I didn't know about band combiners. The reason I specified the preamp is because I thought that was the only way to combine the two bands and filter the UHF out of the feed from the combo antenna.

Unfortunately, I've tried rabbit ears and there's something about my building that wreaks havoc with television signals. The rabbit ears brought in no VHF channels at all. In fact, in only one case (of four channels) could you even tell there was a broadcast...and it certainly wasn't watchable! I definitely need an outdoor antenna.

There seem to be no VHF-only antennas and of the combos, the HD-1080 and the CM-2016 are the only ones that are of reasonable size.

There seem to be no VHF-only antennasAs roger1818 mentioned, rabbit ears are the original VHF indoor antenna.

Try to arrange the elements to be perpendicular (at right angle) to the direction of the VHF station and then move both elements in and out equally about 1/2 and inch at a time until you get the best picture. Your signal bounce inside your building sounds terrible so try turning the rabbit ears a bit too after you've played with the element lengths. :)

Thanks Stampeder, but when I said "VHF-only antennas," I meant the outdoor variety.

The rabbit ears I tried were a borrowed set, and thank goodness. They were useless for my location.

Unfortunately, I've tried rabbit ears and there's something about my building that wreaks havoc with television signals. The rabbit ears brought in no VHF channels at all. In fact, in only one case (of four channels) could you even tell there was a broadcast...and it certainly wasn't watchable! I definitely need an outdoor antenna.

Did you try an un-amplified indoor antenna? The amplifiers in most indoor antennas tend to be very noisy and make the picture worse. That is why I only recommend un-amplified indoor antennas.

Secondly did you tune it for channel 13? At full length it is tuned for VHF-LO and it needs to be shortened to optimize reception of VHF-HI. You can calculate or look up an exact length for the specific channel, but I find shortening it to about half length works well for all of VHF-HI. Also, make it into a dipole by making them 180 degrees apart (straight) to maximize the gain.

The other possibility is although VHF is better than UHF at propagating through trees, it isn't as good at propagating through buildings. A higher gain antenna might help, or you might just be out of luck.

There seem to be no VHF-only antennas and of the combos, the HD-1080 and the CM-2016 are the only ones that are of reasonable size.

Those antennas won't be much better than rabbit ears for VHF. According to Winegard's specs while the HD-1080 has good specs for UHF, for VHF it has a 0.0dB gain over a dipole for ch.13 and -11dB gain (i.e. 11dB loss) over a dipole for ch.7. Not very good at all. I would guess the CM-2016 would be similar.

Although hard to find, you can get VHF only antennas. The elements for VHF-LO (channels 2-6) are what make the antennas very large. To keep an antenna smaller it can be designed to only receive VHF-HI (channels 7-13). One VHF-HI only antenna is the Winegard YA-1713 (http://winegard.com/kbase/upload/ya-1713.pdf). It is bigger than the antennas you are looking at, but it will provide a much better gain (between about +9 and +10 dB for VHF-HI according to Winegard). Its gain on VHF-LO will be much lower however.

Correction.

I checked the 16.x channels and it was out at 6pm. I checked it now later in evening, and the 16.x channels are back. So, it looks fine for now.

Now I can't wait for the changeover from analog to digital. I wish they'd do it asap.