Btw, how on earth did you enter Luskville, QC. I only see US states there...

Follow my directions. The interface uses the google API, so it doesn't really matter which fields you fill out, as long as "Luskville, QC" appears in either the street or city field. Ignore the state pull down menu, and it works just fine.

Why on earth would 20 feet be better than 30?! Something seems wrong with this algorithm, to me. That is, I can certainly see how going higher will get over an obstruction, but why would 10 extra feed show a drop above

Good question, but it is not too surprising. You're looking at 2-edge diffraction instead of line-of-sight propagation, so it's quite possible that you have a sweet spot at 20 feet where signals are refracting over multiple ridges that at 30 feet seem to cancel out rather than add together. The difference isjust about 1 dB, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. In fact, it would be interesting to see if the model works out this way, and then you can be thankful to get by with a short mast.

Also, play around with different places on the roof, as that could create differences as well.

If you want to pursue the nature of the algorithm, you could ask Andy Lee on the TVfool avsforum.

And of course, of there are lots of tall trees around, all bets are off!

That's why I have to go 50 feet up. If I'm 50 feet up, I'm about 10 feet above the tallest trees. That gives some room for growth, too.

It's somewhat interesting that moving from one side of my land to another, causes a 10db drop as well! Must be something I'm just brushing past, which worries me....

I wish someone local to this area had an antenna, but I haven't seen anyone with a good setup...

Secret for good Channel 6?

I've been playing around with different setups for an indoor ant to get channel 6 (global) to come in better as analogue. Is anyone getting it acceptably clear, and could you offer any tips to improve reception on this lousy channel? (lousy in analogue reception, but good programming on it).

I'm close to Luskville.Hi there I am near Luskville also. I have a 4228 and mast about 30' off ground (not above trees). So far only getting local not US. Let me know if you can get US channels with your setup.

Thanks!

That's why I have to go 50 feet up. If I'm 50 feet up, I'm about 10 feet above the tallest trees. That gives some room for growth, too.

The trees will probably have more of an effect than the 2.5 dB difference between 20 and 50 feet.

Are they evergreen trees or deciduous? If the leaves drop in the winter, the 20 foot altitude may work in the winter.

Secret for good Channel 6?

I've been playing around with different setups for an indoor ant to get channel 6 (global) to come in better as analogue. Is anyone getting it acceptably clear, and could you offer any tips to improve reception on this lousy channel? (lousy in analogue reception, but good programming on it).

Me too. I tried a 7 ft span homebuild bowtie last night but with no success. That and channel 11 from HC are my two challenges (I am also in Kanata) Channel 13 from CF is clear with the same antenna.

Me too. I tried a 7 ft span homebuild bowtie last night but with no success. That and channel 11 from HC are my two challenges (I am also in Kanata) Channel 13 from CF is clear with the same antenna.

A Bow Tie antenna will be useless on channel 6 as the wavelength is just too long. For VHF-HI (7-13) they can be OK, but even then you will likely be better off with an antenna designed for VHF.

Have either of you tried using a straight dipole antenna tuned for channel 6? The easiest way to do this is buy a cheap pair of rabbit ears (the ones for VHF only) and straighten them out and lengthen them to 74.5” (though you may need to subtract a couple inches if it has metal eye protectors). See HDTV Primer (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/RabbitEars.html) for more details.

If that doesn't help, you will need to get a higher gain VHF antenna.

Also keep in mind that mlord has done a lot of R&D on home made VHF antennas for Ottawa so read through this thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=96013

He's been missing awhile, so I'm guessing he is/was at the Linux summit for kernel storage and file systems... (?)

I'm surprised you mentioned a bowtie would be useless for channel 6. I currently receive it using a DB-8 antenna, which is at a indoors but against an outside window facing North. I live in downtown Ottawa.

I currently am able to view the channel fairly clearly, at least enough to watch TV programs (there are a range of dots on the screen which detracts from the picture but no fuzzyness or other imperfections).

Now, if only there were more shows worth watching on that channel (I use it to watch American shows such as Dollhouse and 24)!

I'm surprised you mentioned a bowtie would be useless for channel 6. I currently receive it using a DB-8 antenna, which is at a indoors but against an outside window facing North. I live in downtown Ottawa.

That is surprising. My guess is your results have more to do with your location and you could likely pick it up with a paperclip.

The DB-8 is a UHF antenna thus is only intended for channels 14-69. According to HDTV Primer (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html), the DB-8 is one of the worst UHF antennas at receiving VHF-HI (ch 7-13) and like most, its VHF-LO (ch 2-6) performance is non-existent.

Hi.

I'm in Beacon Hill, and my house is 3 stories tall

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=70+Steel+St,+Gloucester,+ON&sll=45.44407,-75.606374&sspn=0.007467,0.019312&ie=UTF8&ll=45.444536,-75.606365&spn=0.007467,0.019312&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A

What is a reasonable Antenna to receive signals from the two local Transmitters. My line of sight should be good given my height.

Does anybody have any experience with Cumberland Antenna? I like that they are close. It would be cool to see a couple of examples before I purchased

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Cumberland+Antenna+Sales&sll=45.420841,-75.604455&sspn=0.478099,1.235962&ie=UTF8&z=10

Am I close enough to the transmitters that attic mounting is okay?

Thanks!

That is surprising. My guess is your results have more to do with your location and you could likely pick it up with a paperclip.

The DB-8 is a UHF antenna thus is only intended for channels 14-69. According to HDTV Primer (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html), the DB-8 is one of the worst UHF antennas at receiving VHF-HI (ch 7-13) and like most, its VHF-LO (ch 2-6) performance is non-existent.
In regards to my reception, I currently recieve all of the local digital channels perfectly (CBC and Sun TV). I don't receive any of the out of town digital channels, such as PBS.

The main analog problem channels for me are:

6 - As I mentioned, I do receive it and can acceptably watch it but I need to put the antenna next to the window in order to receive a good signal. I may try taking a picture of the video so that I can demonstrate what my reception is.
11 - Unwatchable (I see some signal but the audio and video is too distorted for watching)
14, 67? (I think these are the OMNI Channels - I have never received these well enough to watch)
43 (A Channel) - A great deal of ghosting. I occasionally tried watching it when they were showing Senators games but I haven't tried watching it recently.
65 (City TV) - Unwatchable (same problem as E! (channel 11))

I am looking forward to my problems with the OMNI's and City TV to be fixed in the next few weeks when the new digital transmitters come online.

All of the other channels/stations, including 4, 9, 13, 30-40 (French stations), etc... are receivable and certainly watchable. I like to compare 4 and 9 to their digital counterparts and 13 is almost perfect, except for lack of shows to watch (but that is a separate issue).

Tarlbot, using TVfool.com and your coordinates I found that you are 12.5 and 15.9 miles from the two Ottawa towers. You could start experimenting using rabbit ears with UHF loop. I bet you'll be able to get most if not all stations.

Ott8915, your results don't surprise me. All the stations you receive well are transmitting from Camp Fortune which is to your north. The ones you are having troubles with are from Herberts Corners to your south. Since your antenna is indoors facing north both the building and the reflector screen on the antenna are blocking the signals from Herberts Corners.

All the stations you receive well are transmitting from Camp Fortune which is to your north. The ones you are having troubles with are from Herberts Corners to your south.Ott8915, that's a classic case for removing the reflectors on your DB8 so that you get both directions equally. If your heart is set on U.S. stations you will want a 2 antenna system:
a DB4, CM4221HD, or similar antenna pointing directly at Camp Fortune to the north
your DB8 or a GH or similar deep fringe antenna pointing at the U.S. stations to the south
experiment with the south antenna's aim so that its pattern will also pull in the Canadian stations from Herberts Corners.

Jocoman and I discovered the other day that, to receive channel 6 (Global) clearly here, an FM trap really helps!

We tried his pre-amp without the FM trap, and VHF-6 was covered in sparkle style interference. But with the FM trap enabled, nice and clear reception.

So tonight, I added an FM trap inline with the channel 6 antenna (dipole) I use here. And reception is much much better than before.

So.. for the others here trying to get a clear VHF-6 signal -- try an FM trap (filter).

Cheers

Like mlord I have also tried a super paper clip constructing a folded dipole with a 67.78" 2x3 and 12AWG copper and I have also added a 77.5 inch 12 AWG reflector 65 inches behind it for a couple of theoretical dB's more (everything tuned for 82MHz). It is all up in the attic where I had to mount the dipole and reflector seperately. (so the spacing is not perfect)

Channel 6 is the best it ever was - not as great as channel 9 but quite watchable - and as a bonus I have good reception on all the digital channels from Camp Fortune (CF)

Here are my ratings out of 10 for this setup for all the channels from CF

Channel 4 - 8/10
Channel 9 - 9/10
Channel 6 - 6/10
Channel 13 - 10/10
Channel 24 - 7/10
Channel 40 - 6/10


Channel 4.1 SNR 29 (displayed by the Hauppauge HVR1800 Digital Signal Quality Monitor)
Channel 9.1 SNR 30 (Full scale value)
Channel 20.1 SNR 29.5

Good job on the paper clip there, RamKat!

For channel-6, an FM interference trap seems to be the ticket. I got mine off of eBay, an old Radio Shack model. Just search for FM interference trap on eBay to find them. Shipping is the biggest cost there, so perhaps get a few of them at once and share the love. :)

Or make your own (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaycar.com.au%2Fimages_uploaded%2FJayca r%2520-%2520How%2520to%2520make%2520your%2520own%2520FM%2520Trap.pd f&ei=gb_8SaXyApCUMvO9kcAE&usg=AFQjCNGKwv9Gy6BP8-uM5oK9m_1J_um8fw) from some wire and a variable capacitor (Reset Electronics).

Cheers

First post, but I have been lurking around for a while. I have reached my breaking point with Rogers. Thus time to go OTA.

I tested my reception on my second floor of my side split house and find the UHF reception satisfactory for a cheap 4221 clone. However reception of VHF channels 6 and 11 are just terrible. They may improve when I put the antenna on my roof. I was going to get a second clone and point one at Herberts Corner and the other at Camp Fortune. From Navan, they are 83 degrees apart. However since the transition to digital is so slow here, I decided, I need VHF-lo now to survive in the interim, thus I will be picking up a Channel Master 4242 tomorrow.

The expertise on this forum is amazing, so I am hoping you can help me out with a couple questions.

1) Can I point the CM 4242 at the US stations at approx. 120 degrees and hope to get all the Camp Fortune stations on it's back end at 286 degrees. It works out close to 180 degrees. It seems to me that if the front end has 100 mile capability the back end should easily pick up 21 miles. (the cm 4242 reception pattern: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4242.html ). This way I get all CF stations, avoid using a rotor and maybe get the odd US station occasionally, if lucky.

2) Can I also mount my 4221 clone 2 feet below the CM4242, point it towards Herberts Corner, and combine the signals? Thus getting the best of both worlds. If so, will a splitter/combiner be enough?

3) I have a steel roof, does this help or hinder????

Hopefully this makes sense.