The thread below is a bit old, so I thought I'd start a new one.

If you've never driven a car in the winter (on ice or snow) using winter tires, you'd be amazed at the huge difference they make.

Your car performs based on about 1 square foot of traction - the 4 contact patches where the rubber meets the road. In my mind, this is the most important performance parameter of your vehicle. I believe that people who scrimp on tires are foolish. You should always purchase the best tires you can afford and those tires are NOT the ones with the highest wear rating.

In summer a good all season or summer tire will perform best. In winter driving, only winter tires will do and you need to install them in sets of four.

Whenever I purchase a new or used car, I also purchase 4 wheels and winter tires in time for the first winter. This costs about $800-$1500 depending, but over the years that you drive in the winter, this will be worth it by avoiding only one accident and piece of mind.

The "wear" on the Winter tires, also means that your summer tires last longer, so the additional money spent also goes to extend your summer tires - it's not just "spent".

I change the wheels in fall and spring by myself in under an hour. Some places will even store the "off the car" set for you, if you have them do the change spring and fall.

I just ordered a set of Pilot Alpin PA2s on (inexpensive) alloy wheels for the Honda Accord we purchased in the spring.

You can visit the Tire Rack website to help you pick the appropriate tires for your vehicle.

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/wintertires.jsp


http://digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8921

Good idea 57. I have had Dunlop Wintersport M3's since last fall. In summer I have Goodyear GS-D3's (outstanding tire in the dry and rain). The M3's are very good tires as well but not cheap. And, I do go to snowies even here in Vancouver where it barely ever snows.

Can't use Tire Rack. They only offer UPS which is TERRIBLE for adding on brokerage charges.

Use Tire Rack to research what's best for you and then buy them somewhere else.

No question good winter tires are worth every penny. I believe Quebec was once considering making them mandatory and that's not a bad idea.

Can't use Tire Rack. They only offer UPS which is TERRIBLE for adding on brokerage charges.If you live near the border with a friend nearby, you can have the set shipped to the friend in the US if it's worthwhile...

I was referencing Tire Rack mostly for the research. The place I purchase my tires/wheels even uses them to check for sizes and compatible wheel size.

One thing I forgot to mention. Winter tires are pretty soft and will wear quickly if you put them on too early or leave them on too late. I usually do it when the average daily temperature reaches just above zero - say about +3C. This will depend a bit on what your "summer" tires are. If they're true summer tires, you may wish to leave the winters on a bit longer...

In Calgary it's different. If you're not going to the mountains, you probably only need your snow tires for March April and May, when most of the snow falls. ;) If you go to the mountains, then you'll need to start a lot earlier...

I just put some Nokian All Weather tires on both vehicles. First time i've tried them. They're not winter, but they're not all seasons either.

Yeah... this reminds me I have to hide my nice Mille Miglia wheels for the next 6 months.

Now my car will really blend in with my factory alloy wheels and my winter tires (which are narrower, smaller and higher profile) ;)

True, everyone has been concentrating on summer "performance" by going +1 or +2 in wheel size (although there are diminishing returns fairly quick now that car manufacturers already have 16, 17, 18" wheels...

For winter performance, you can consider -1 if the brakes allow for a smaller wheel. A narrower tire will increase performance in snow. Ever watch what the world rally cars run in the snow? Of course, you need to be aware that a narrower, softer tire will extend stopping distances on dry pavement, so there is a small caveat.

Whether you buy snow tires or use good all season tires in the winter depends on how many days a year you will be driving in snow. If its a few days then its not worth the expense. If its a lot of days then you should use them.

Other factors are whether your summer tires are low profile, how old your tires are, whether you drive a rear wheel drive car, etc....

Everyone is different.......

This may be a stupid question but I am not the most mechanical person around. Do tires need to be mounted on the vehicle in order to be balanced?

I need 4 winter tires but won't be able to get the summer tires home in the car and therefore it would be easier for me to pick up the tires on the rims with another vehicle.

In Calgary it's different. If you're not going to the mountains, you probably only need your snow tires for March April and May, when most of the snow falls. ;) If you go to the mountains, then you'll need to start a lot earlier...

wow! hahaha, man, i hope no calgarian EVER takes that advice. have you ever been to calgary? if you dont have your snow tires on by oct/early november, you WILL die :) then it snows until about may long weekend too ;) summer tires only see 4-5 months of use.

This may be a stupid question but I am not the most mechanical person around. Do tires need to be mounted on the vehicle in order to be balanced?

I need 4 winter tires but won't be able to get the summer tires home in the car and therefore it would be easier for me to pick up the tires on the rims with another vehicle.

tires/wheels must be removed from the vehicle and put on a balancing machine to be balanced.


and remember, all seasons are no seasons :D

have you ever been to calgary?Let's see, I lived in Calgary from 1981 to 1988 and I'm out there several times a year since. I guess we can agree to disagree, just like in the next post...

Do tires need to be mounted on the vehicle in order to be balanced?.Normally tires and wheels are balanced "OFF" the car, however, sometimes due to imbalances on the car itself (like a bad brake rotor) they can be balanced ON the car using a machine that spins the wheel while it's on the car.

This should be a last resort as it's preferable to cure the problem on the car, rather than trying to correct a car problem with a wheel balance. When you do this, that wheel needs to go in only that one position too, which means you cannot rotate your tires. (although a number of tires are now unidirectional and can only be "rotated" front to back.)

tires/wheels must be removed from the vehicle and put on a balancing machine to be balanced.Normally, yes, but not always.

Whether you buy snow tires or use good all season tires in the winter depends on how many days a year you will be driving in snow. If its a few days then its not worth the expense. If its a lot of days then you should use them.

Other factors are whether your summer tires are low profile, how old your tires are, whether you drive a rear wheel drive car, etc....

Everyone is different.......

Winter tires can be biased to perform beter in snow or better on ice, but either way should be strongly considered just because it is cold outside. Even on dry pavement in the winter, they will perform better than a so-called all-season tire. As temperatures drop towards zero an all-season's performance capabilities diminish due to the tire's compound which becomes harder as temperatures drop. Winter tires on the other hand are made with a compound that stays softer as temps drop, thus maintaining their performance capabilities.

This is why they need to come off in the spring as temperatures rise. If you leave them on too long their tread life suffers drastically. So consider getting a winter tire first and then based on your local conditions decide if you need an all-rounder, one biased to ice performance or snow performance.

Do mounting and unmounting snow tires on alloy rims twice a year damage the rims? Is it better to purchase steel rims for winter use (it would be cheaper than alloys), and if so, must the rims be the exact same size as the all-seasonals and the alloys (in my case, 16 inches)?

Yes, mounting and unmounting damages the rims. It also ends up costing almost as much as rims after you do this a few years (even if you don't count the damage - which there will be). That's why my first post talked about separate rims. Interestingly, by the time you buy steel rims and wheel covers (if you get wheel covers) this can be as costly as a cheap set of alloys. Be careful not to get a "clearcoat" alloy. Again a good shop will typically have good recommendations.

The rims do not have to be the same size. Many people go "-1" on winter tires, with a higher aspect ratio tire and slightly less wide. You need to check if that's allowed on your vehicle because the wheel needs to clear the brake calipers.

The circumference of the "new" tire/wheel combination should be close to the original tires, so that your speedometer isn't off by too much and so that you have the same final drive ratio. Again, the tire/wheel shop should be able to recommend. Or visit the Tire Rack site and do some research.

The earlier comment about winter tires performing better in the cold weather is true, but only at pretty low temperatures. In most cases an all-season will outperform a winter tire, unless it's very cold (on bare pavement). The winter tires are optimized for contact with snow/ice (although that means they also perform better in extreme cold - say -20C or below). At zero C, there is probably no improvement in performance over an all-season.

For example, in Calgary when they have their chinooks, a winter tire will perform very poorly on dry pavement at 20C, with longer stopping distances and poor cornering performance due to "squirming" of the tread. It's always a tradeoff...

In summer a good all season or summer tire will perform best. In winter driving, only winter tires will do and you need to install them in sets of four.That's a little extreme isn't it? For Toronto? Come on, there's only about 2 or 3 days a year here when the roads are icy ... there's so little snow here, and they spread the salt so thickly when there is! If we were in somewhere where it snowed, like Ottawa, or Calgary, or Owen Sound, perhaps. But Toronto?

Nick

nfitz, if you don't need to go out when it does snow, then you don't need the winter tires. If you "must" go out, then the roads are not always salted/cleared. The final decision is yours of course.

Also, many people who live in Toronto do venture out of the city on occasion - say a few trips to London, Barrie, Peterborough or Montreal...

BTW, Calgary gets very little snow, relative to the places mentioned above. Much of the time, it's either too cold to snow, or there's a chinook and whatever snow there is melts.

Also, keep in mind that it's not just snow that's a problem. Many cars these days are being sold with performance tires, and the rubber compounds they use with these tires are optimized for warmer temperatures. As a result, the rubber gets very stiff when the temperature drops, and a significant amount of grip is lost.

The OEM tires on my car are Michelin Pilot Sports, and when the temperature goes below 5C or so, I can definitely feel the loss of grip. Throw in some rain or slick streets, and the traction control will be working overtime.

Winter tires not only feature a more aggressive tread, but the rubber is much softer (which can be a problem if it warms up quickly in the spring--wear rates when temperatures are above 10-15C can be excessive).

For me, the investment in a set of winter wheels and tires made sense. I was only caught in two or three snowstorms last year, but the tires helped a lot even when the roads were clear.