: Email sent to CTV/CRTC concerning that pathetic CTV logo with simsubs on BEV
2005-10-11, 06:02 PM
Well CTV is now simsubbing again and a new season of CRTC emails has begun. I have just sent one off to the CRTC/CTV concerning that pathetic CTV logo bug they put over U.S. network logo's.
Here is my email:
I am writing to complain about the simsub practises of CTV for the TV program CSI. The U.S. network was CBS and was shown at 7pm on Oct 8/05 on Bell Expressvu on channel 817 which is the CBS east HD channel. Now I realize that as a consumer paying for these channels that the money I pay means nothing to the CRTC or the broadcast industry in Canada (or the fact that Toronto commercials mean nothing to western viewers), but surely to god the CRTC/CTV can do something to get rid of that irritating and annoying CTV logo.
Simsubbing is supposed to be so the profits stay huge for the canadian broadcast system in the name of canadian culture (and we all know how much culture canadian broadcasters put back into canadian production), but this does not mean that while legally stealing the channel I am watching I have to be subjected to that pathetic, annoying logo. Canadian broadcasters are already making considerable money from the advertising, this is not reason to subject viewers to the CTV logo.
I would dearly like to have the CRTC once do something for the canadian consumer instead of allowing canadian broadcasters to do what they wish, when they wish with no regard to what the consumer is getting. I would also like the CRTC to respond to this matter instead of ignoring me as they did concerning my last email with respect to Bell ExpressVu/Movie Central.
2005-10-11, 06:28 PM
I agree with you. What's even more annoying is Global. You get their logo in the top right hand corner, and the network in the bottom right. I find the top right really distracting.
What I don't understand is this need to brand their stinking logos on any channels (US networks as well). Channels like YTV (I think Teletoon too), have a logo that flies in after a commercial, does it's thing, and then leaves. I'm ok with that. If they want to advertise their network, fine. But why are they trying to burn their logo into my TV???????
2005-10-11, 06:44 PM
Hey just wait Wires:
Soon we will have the U.S. station logo on the bottom right, the Canadian broadcasters logo on the top right, the Canadian flag on the top left, your provincial flad on the bottom left and scrolling along the bottom "Brought to you by the CRTC, rubber stamper of the canadian broadcast system because we can and will control what you watch in your FREE country"!
2005-10-11, 07:48 PM
I have only noticed a clear clean CTVHD logo on the simsubs I've seen so far. Much better then last year.
2005-10-11, 07:57 PM
Take a look at a CBS simsub and I know you will see the black crap!
Our boradcasting system is a joke.Lets all go grey!!!
I'd rather see the global logo in the top corner than the ch grey/black crap thing covering 2/3 of the NBC logo.
2005-10-11, 08:26 PM
Last night's CSI Miami (10 pm EST) had a clear CTV logo in the lower right and no CBS logo at all.
This of course did not stop me from changing to my HD CBS OTA station in Buffalo (as someone who despises Simsubs - I feel very lucky to live so close to a good sized U.S. city)
p.s. loved your letter to the CRTC Altaman - well said
The translucent logo is used when it's not a simsub - ie the CTV programme is on at a different time than the US network. A real simsub will have the black logo. There is a thread on that subject.
2005-10-11, 09:27 PM
I have seen the ugly black CTV bug in the past (mostly last year) and I was suprised to see a clear logo last night but 10pm est IS CSI Miami's time slot on CBS and CTV took over the feed on Bell's CBS HD channel.
I switched between Bell's CBS HD channel and my OTA CBS HD station and other than being several seconds out of sync it was the same show same, time slot.
Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps they are now able to tie in and get a "logoless" feed for some programmes. I'll see if I can find that thread. Here it is...
2005-10-11, 11:47 PM
Global puts theirs on the top right with the US logo in the bottom right.
2005-10-12, 02:08 PM
Global puts theirs on the top right with the US logo in the bottom right.
I noticed that again last night. I thank Global or turning up the contast on their logo too. Nice and bright and white. If I watch enough Global shows, I should be able to get a perpetual global moon on the corner of my screen. :mad:
2005-10-12, 07:12 PM
you guys raise some valid points...those static logos could potentially cause burn in on some of plasma tv's out there.
2005-10-13, 06:14 PM
Well looks like I got Ms. Grossi's attention with my email complaint concerning the CTV HD logo...here is the msg I got back from her today:
Dear Mr. Altaman:
Thanks for contacting the CRTC with your concerns.
It's the broadcasters themselves - not the CRTC - who are responsible for the programming they provide. This is spelled out in the Broadcasting Act. Our job is to make sure broadcasters have acted responsibly - and to hold them accountable for their programming when it's called for.
In order to follow this matter, I am asking CTV by copy of this message, to respond directly to you within three weeks and to send us a copy of its reply for review by Commission staff. I am also asking that it hold a tape of the broadcast in question until your case is resolved. You will hear from us again if any regulatory action is required
Note they are asking them to hold a copy of the broadcast in question! I think that with respect to these broadcaster bugs, we can get the CRTC to do something. I suggest others who find these bugs annoying, distracting and possibly causing burnin on your sets to contact the CRTC.
2005-10-14, 05:09 PM
I was watching CSI last night, and that pretty logo kept showing up.
Oddly enough, it's displayed through the first couple of minutes of the opening show (before the intro rolls), and then after commercial break, there is 15 or so seconds of show before it pops up again.
Not sure why they need it (since they display CTV ads throughout the commercials). But why don't they display it in the intro before the show starts, and then the first 15-30 seconds after commercials (getting rid of it the rest of the time during the show). And if they really need to, pop it in the last 15-30 seconds before commercial breaks (would be a nice indicator that commercials are coming). I really doubt I'd forget what channel I'm watching 1/2 way through the show!
Hopefully CTV gets back to you about it.
2005-10-14, 06:16 PM
guys, what is the word "OTA" that everyone uses? just trying to get familiar..
2005-10-14, 06:18 PM
OTA = "Over the Air"
It means using an antenna to get your TV versus Cablevision or Satellite.
I send my compliant outlining all the logo coverups on CTV and CH.I forgot to mention CityTV and A-Channel.I'm really hoping we can get something done about this but I'm exprecting the reply from the boradcaster to tell me that it's an advantage to be able to see the coverup logo.:( :rolleyes:
2005-10-18, 06:34 PM
Well got a response back from CTV and here is what it said:
October 17, 2005
Dear Mr. Altaman
Re: Your complaint concerning CTV HD’s broadcast of CSI (CRTC Case ID: 270435)
The CRTC has forward to us a copy of your letter regarding CTV HD’s broadcast of CSI. CTV is the legal rights holder of CSI in Canada. The CBS Network does not pay for or own broadcast rights for CSI in Canada. Simultaneous substitution is the method provided to us by the CRTC to protect the rights we pay for. CTV is not “stealing” anything.
On screen logos are used by virtually every broadcaster around the world. Were you watching CSI on CBS instead of CTV you would have had a CBS logo on screen. The main purpose is to provide viewers with an easy on screen reference to the channel they are watching. While some viewers who subscribe to digital cable or satellite have an on screen viewing guide, the majority of viewers have no on screen reference point for the channel they are watching. This form of identification has been used and widely accepted for over two decades.
As the CRTC informed you, CTV is a member of the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council. We follow the Council’s standards and guidelines. They are available to moderated complaints you may have against CTV or any other Canadian broadcaster. We are copying the Council on your concerns and our reply.
Senior Vice President, Program Planning & Promotion, CTV Inc.
Seeing as I am not one to sit and accept defeat, here is the response I sent back to them and cc'ed to the CRTC:
Thank you for your response:
I wish to address your response to which I will say that I do not agree with.
First off, the CRTC may allow you to legally steal a channel (simsub) I am paying for and you are correct that stations do use their logo to identify themselves to a viewer however your use of the CTV logo is not required, not wanted and a blatant misuse of logo. The reasons are listed below:
1) That black ugly logo that you use to cover U.S. broadcasters logos is an extreme annoyance to the viewer and I can not see how CTV felt they could subject the viewer to that crap!
2) You may have the right to simsub your broadcast, but you are not allowed to alter the programming in any way, shape or form. This means that on the CBS channel in question, you should not be putting anything extra on the screen, including your logo. Put you advertising on there, but by placing your logo on the screen you are altering the picture the view would otherwise see,
3) Being that Canadian broadcasters seem so intent on american programming, why do they not use the same transparent type logo as the channels ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox do.
4) Why can you not do the same as some channels do and put your logo up for a few seconds at the start of a broadcast and a few seconds upon return from a commercial?
With all the above being said, I restate that #2 above is only what you are entitled to do on a channel you simsub, not alter viiewer experience in any way, shape or form including the adding of your logo.
2005-10-18, 06:53 PM
I await your response! :)
I love their reasoning for the logos:
"While some viewers who subscribe to digital cable or satellite have an on screen viewing guide, the majority of viewers have no on screen reference point for the channel they are watching."
Ok, maybe I'm stupid (or super smart), but back in the days when I didn't have satellite, I only had 3-4 channels (which is still valid today). Now, I don't remember ever "forgetting" which one I had dialed in! That's the most pathetic excuse ever! :confused: