Nick, you are saying download the regs and look. It is anything but simple, there have tons of docs there. Can you post a link?There is indeed; perhaps simple wasn't the best choice in words! It's a lot of precedent and decesions, rather than a simple rule book. Try tossing 4+1 in the search engine, and filtering from there.

This looks like the initial decision to allow the second 4+1 (on a discretionary digital basis:
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Decisions/2000/DB2000-437.htm looks like the station has to be on the Part 3 Eligible Satellite Service list ... the most recent one (I think) can be found:
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Notices/2005/pb2005-79.htm

Note that the concept of HD just isn't considered here at all.

Quite frankly, I don't know what authorized Rogers to carry Detroit HD stations, as a third set of 4+1 (in HD from Detroit). I can't see anything in writing that authorizes this. I'd be most interested if someone knows or can find the basis ...

Nick

Those of you who are doing battle with Rogers on this. How about trying to get them to give you the Seattle HD channels for free, in compensation for the Buffalo signal problems!

Nick

Those of you who are doing battle with Rogers on this. How about trying to get them to give you the Seattle HD channels for free, in compensation for the Buffalo signal problems!

Nick

I'd rather watch shows in my time zone rather than 3 hours later! OK so I can record them, but usually I watch when they happen.
They should just fix the situation by bringing in Detroit or Boston (!).

You are now required to watch or record all ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX programming on CTVHD or GlobalHD to escape bad US feeds from Buffalo.

.ps No mention of this is CRTC regulations. Likely an unwritten rule.

.ps No mention of this is CRTC regulations. Likely an unwritten rule.Yes, probably some kind of verbal discussion I would think ... probably went something like:

"... yes, we'd like you to carry HD channels ... no you can't get it from the usual channels. Not a problem to take them from other cities temporarily ... not as if anyone is watching them ... by the way, thanks for that wonderful bottle of Scotch, I'm surprised you remembered I loved it so much while I was at your cottage ... "

Nick

Quite frankly, I don't know what authorized Rogers to carry Detroit HD stations, as a third set of 4+1 (in HD from Detroit). I can't see anything in writing that authorizes this. I'd be most interested if someone knows or can find the basis ...
Nick

Here's one file.. not directly related to HD tho.. It is interesting to note that specifically have the option of swapping Detroit for Buffalo (and presumeably vice versa .. and seemingly according to this - at their own discretion)

Applications by ROGERS CABLE INC. and ROGERS CABLESYSTEMS ONTARIO LIMITED to amend the licences of their cable distribution undertakings serving London.
The licensees propose to distribute the signals of WWJ-TV (CBS) and WJBK-TV (FOX) Detroit, Michigan. These signals will replace WSEE-TV (CBS) Erie, Pennsylvania, and WUTV (FOX) Buffalo, New York.
The licensees propose to add the following condition of license:
The licensees also propose to retain for substitution, at their option, the signals of WGRZ-TV (NBC), WIVB-TV (CBS), WKBW-TV (ABC) and WJBK-TV (FOX) Buffalo, New York, for the corresponding Detroit signals. The Commission notes that the undertakings will carry the Buffalo signals only when all of the following criteria are met:

·1 The Detroit signals are of poor quality;

·2 The program carried on both the Buffalo and Detroit stations is the same (episode for episode); and

·3 The program distributed by the licensees is not subject to a program substitution request by a local or regional Canadian broadcaster.

The licensees also propose to substitute, at their option, either the signal of WTVS (PBS) Detroit, Michigan, or WNED-TV (PBS) Buffalo, New York for the signal of WQLN-TV (PBS) Erie, Pennsylvania, in the event of signal quality problems. The selection of WTVS or WNED-TV would be governed by the ability to match programming with WQLN-TV.
The proposed changes are required, according to the licensees, for technical quality reasons.
The licensees submit that the changes of U.S. commercial network television stations to Detroit affiliates will not have a significant impact on local television stations distributed.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Notices/2003/pb2003-46.htm

Looks like Videotron is allowed to carry a 3rd set of US networks!
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Decisions/2004/db2004-460.htm

Why not Rogers?

lajohn27, that is an application, I cannot find whether they have allowed it. Can you (or anybody else)

lajohn27, that is an application, I cannot find whether they have allowed it. Can you (or anybody else)You can normally find the decisions, by putting the application number into the search engine.

Here:

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Decisions/2003/db2003-579.htm

There was a lot of chatter about this at the time. These applications included the replacement of some of both the London and Ottawa OTA US stations, as well as the back-up Buffalo stations for London.

Hmm, I haven't looked at the details in the Toronto licence ... but presumably there is a list of allowed OTA US stations in there ... listing Buffalo I would presume.

Still, nothing in these applications/decisions let them go from 2 sets of 4+1 to 3 sets. And it seems to preclude ... for Ottawa and London ... the use of both Buffalo and Detroit signals at the same time.

Nick

Looks like Videotron is allowed to carry a 3rd set of US networks! ... Why not Rogers?Excellent find!

And a very good question. Looking in the supporting documents, Videotron's second set of signals is Detroit.

I would guess, that the answer to the question "Why not Rogers?" is that Rogers has never applied. But I'd have to spend some time trolling the CRTC site to support this conclusion.

Nick

I actually searched for the approval, I cannot find for Toronto portion, other parts have been approved. Maybe that is the reason, maybe it was denied for Toronto.

Sorry, my mistake, that application was not for Toronto area, that is why there is no aproval for TO area (Has multiple parts, confused me)

I dont think this has been mentioned.... Is it just me or do none of these Buffalo stations broadcast in DD5.1? All the shows seem to be stereo-only. What a scam!

WIVB is definitely 5.1, at least it is OTA.

I know WUTV -Fox broadcasts in dd5.1 during it's sunday football broadcasts.
However, WKBW-ABC didn't seem to be in dd5.1 during Monday Night Football or during LOST (both were in stereo) this week.

i live in windsor ont and i get ota channels from detroit and i can tell you the picture quality is way better ota then on rogers for there hd when they use to use detroit.i know because when i visited my mom in brantford i found the picture quality lacking the superior feed i get ota from detroit.as for hd wb and hd upn detroithas been broadcasting it for over a year and a half now.when i record a show i always use the ota feed cause the quality is always better than the cable or satellite version.

i always use the ota feed cause the quality is always better than the cable or satellite version.
This has always been true for NTSC signals if you live in an area where a Grade A signal is available. As for ATSC, I have noticed the same difference except for WJBK-DT Detroit which has the same PQ on Star Choice vs OTA. So it can't be that cable/satellite can't do it; but rather they won't.

I have emailed Rogers about the problems with these chanels, the sound was annoying but I finally sent a complaint after one to many times of sitting down to enjoy an HD show only to find it SD.

I anciously await Rogers reply, I sugested they go back to Detroit untill Buffalo is the same quality or offer the Seattle HD for free untill Buffalo is up to speed.

Not expecting either of this, but you can try right?

I get the impression that Rogers just don't want to admit that Buffalo signals aren't up to standard. I've emailed them constantly about problems - especially on ABCHD during Desperate Housewives. I even had a lengthy phone call with a very pleasant guy about it. Their response - it has to be a problem with my installation so they're sending over a technician on Sat. to 'fix' it! I've told them it's a waste of time but the guy on the phone said they have to make sure there is nothing wrong with my cable signal strength first.

The more complaints they get the better, then perhaps they might come to the conclusion that it's the Bufflo signals that are the problem and not our in-house wiring. I've lost track of the number of times I've been asked to remove splitters etc.........

Rogers failed to respond to my email. So I called, the tech did a few standard things like rebooting my STB and but then he listened to my complains and agreed the problem is on their side. He forwarded it to their Networking group and told me they will be updating me on the status. Gave me a ticket number.
I don't know whether anything will come out of it. But at least I can call back with the number in a few days and escalate.

As looks like CRTC angle is dead, we have to let Rogers know that something is not right here. The more people call, the better. I did not spend thousand on a Hometheather system to have subtandard signal. I am still getting occasional picture and sound problems, plus sound is not 5.1. We are already small group, we need to make some noise or they will gonna ignore us. It takes only 15 mins, please call them and let them know