For big antennas and long masts please look at schedule 30 or 40 galvanized steel pipe from a chain-link fence company.

Looking for a little devil's advocate help here.

I've been toying for years with the idea of incorporating a 10' section of bracketed tower physically onto my roof, supported by the chimney and the roof. Currently my set-up consists of a 10' mast chimney mounted - pics are in the link below.

Before you get all nervous, there is a reason why I'm not to anxious about putting ground based tower against my chimney:

I live in a neighbourhood with a population of raccoons that seem to love climbing on houses, and attacking the under-eaves soffit in an attempt to gain access to attics. They have been successful on various houses in the area, and as they have learned and succeeded at this practice, I would prefer them to find someone else's home easier to get onto the roof. Since raccoons are such great climbers, placing a bracketed tower against the house is an open invitation.

My roof decking is original (1956) solid plank - not OSB or plywood, so structurally a little stronger in term of weight bearing capacity. But a ten foot section with a 10' mast should not add that much weight to the roof, correct (at least less than the weight of a fat raccoon)? I would have to adjust the bottom to prevent shingle penetration - possibly by fabricating a "saddle" out of flat sheet metal for it to sit on, on top of the shingles. My thought is for the roof to bear the weight of the hardware, but the chimney to bear the lateral forces - wind load, etc. I would use a modified bracket system (likely four in total) for attaching to the chimney so that removal of the tower/mast would be done by simply opening up a few sets of bolts - this would facilitate future shingle work etc. I would be grounding the tower using my existing ground wire.

So...., what have I not thought about? Would this contravene national or Ontario building code (I'll take my chances with the municipality)? Is this a pipe dream? Would I have to reinforce the roof from the underside in the attic?

Pics of my existing system/roof/chimney, under snow, are here; post # 209/210:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=506960#post506960

Comments please :)

BTW, that old tower I joked about in post #209 of the above link, is now down on the ground,... as is that entire house - demo'd for a rebuild. I thought about asking for the top of the tower, but upon closer inspection, it was corroded beyond re-use.

99gecko,

There are a couple of reasons reasons why most masts begin on the ground vs. a roof. The big one is stability, since there is a lot of weight/pressure involved. A properly-guyed/bracketed ground-anchored mast lowers the centre of gravity and reduces shear forces. A second reason is that towers are heavy, and most roofs can't take that much weight on one location. A third is waterproofness. You want to treat your shingles like a single membrane, and that means never piercing it unless absolutely necessary. Securing a mast through the shingles creates a water entry point and that's always risky. If you aren't going to bolt it to the roof you're going to have something heavy that moves constantly, and that could be even worse.

Even if your code allows it your insurance may not. If your goal is to keep the raccoons out there are options such as sheet metal wrappings. Better off in the long run to do it right.

I would like to increase the height of my current tower by adding a few sections. [2-3] Obviously it will need to have guy wires, and I am looking for some guidance on the proper way to do this. Any suggestions are appreciated. Below is a picture of my current tower:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/300sflyer/DSC_0877.jpg

So I just bought a house in Mississauga and the previous owners had Shaw Satelite. The dish is on the south side of the house and has 4 RG cables running to it.

I plan to pull down the shaw cable dish and install an 8 bay antenna. Which should only use one cable.

I have a few questions.
1. I am in the process of getting my ham license and I am wondering if I can use the same mast for the 8 bay and a ham VHF/UHF antenna.

2. can I use the 8 bay antenna with a vhf/uhf radio scanner?

ansarm the biggest concern is whether your tower has been engineered to handle the weight, wind load, and snow load of all the antennas you intend to mount on it, along with rotor(s) and other gear up there. As for using a UHF TV antenna for scanning non-TV bands, you won't have much luck at all with that.

I'm concerned about a friends' antenna. VHF only antenna and one of the elements is broken off. He uses a 300 ohm twin-lead to the house. There is no grounding at the moment.

It's about 40-50 years old and I figure the poor thing has seen better days.

I've informed him about new antennas and the fact that they will last a while.

Stampeder, you mentioned in the post above about snow weight. How will a outdoor antenna hold up to a few inches of snow on the roof? Is the metal prone to rusting or is it rust proof?

Thanks :)

1. I am in the process of getting my ham license and I am wondering if I can use the same mast for the 8 bay and a ham VHF/UHF antenna.
Welcome to the hobby! I've been licenced since 1999. You'll need to replace the mast that came with the Shaw dish because it isn't long enough to properly affix an 8-bay antenna. I'd highly recommend going to Save and Replay on Kennedy just south of Courtney Park and look for a longer mast that will work with the satellite dish mount.

Putting another antenna on top might be too much for the mount, even a ham vhf/uhf antenna.

2. can I use the 8 bay antenna with a vhf/uhf radio scanner?
It might work but probably not very well. TV antennas are designed for tv frequencies which don't really correspond to frequencies you'd listen to on a scanner.

querty-m4n, if you could post some photos and a description of your neighbour's antenna as well as your TVFool report into the following thread we love assessing that sort of old gear. :)

Antique, Used, and/or Mystery Antennas! (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=107706)

Being that you are in Lethbridge it's obvious his antenna has stood up to those crazy wind loads there over the years ;) and the snow in your area is usually the dry stuff that gets melted off by Chinooks so my gut feeling is that snow load is not a big issue.

Yeah, she's old. Thanks for showing me the correct forum to post a picture.

My TV Fool may be different from my friends'. He's on a ranch while I'm in the city. I'll publish the reports later.

Thanks again for answering my query :)

I saw wing's set up, as well as what others have done. I've bought a CM-4228HD and a CM-7777 preamp that I want to install on my roof. I'm looking to use an eave mount on South-East the side of house (see pics below).

http://www.timo.ca/home/home-location.jpg

http://www.timo.ca/home/home-mount-location.jpg

My question: how did the rest of you do your installations? Did you get a company to do it, or did you install it yourself?

I already have the antenna set up on a mast in my backyard (http://www.timo.ca/home/home-antenna2.jpg)and the RG6 cable going into my basement. I'm getting 4.1, 9.1, 17.1, 20.1, 24.1, 27.1 (sometimes), and 66.1 with it just in my backyard. So, all I have left to do is:


Install the ground block
Install the ground rod
Install the antenna & mast on the roof


The first two items don't seem too hard to do, so I think I could do that myself. It's the roof work that concerns me. I'm curious to do it myself, but I have a massive fear of heights and I'm not sure if I'd be able to lean over the roof edge to drill in and install the eave mount (roof pitch seems to be a reasonable 5 in 12). Alternately, I could rent an extension ladder, but then I'd feel even more precarious standing 25' up in the air atop a ladder.

So, I'm looking for advice. Did anyone use an installer that they felt did a good job? Or, since I'm having part of my roof repaired on Sept 9, should I ask the roofers if they'd do it for an extra charge? If you did it yourself, did you need any special gear when up on the roof (e.g. safety harness, etc.)?

Thanks,
Timo
-----
Location: Kanata (Bridlewood)
Setup: CM-4228HD & CM-7777
-----

Hi timojaak. My 2 cents worth .... how much does your roof overhang the side of your house? Looking at your "home-mount-location.jpg" .... you could use mast brackets that extend the mast past the overhang and lag screw them into the siding (hopefully into a 2x4); or install a couple of short 2x6 pieces horizontally first & then attaching the mast mounts. It may not look that great but it's a suggestion. They'll also need to be removed should you re-side your house (something else to keep in mind).

You also need to remember that the 4228 is heavy, so the mast will have to be clamped using about 1/3 of it's total length - ie: for a 10' mast, clamp #1 on the bottom and clamp #2 approx 4' above that (there is a formula but I can't remember it a the moment). Clamp #2 could be directly under the roof peak. This will give you about a 6' clearance above the roof.

I'll have to dig up the grounding information mlord gave me .... 2 x 4' solid copper rods into the ground at least 3' away from the foundation using 8 AWG wire - if my memory serves.

Hi timojaak. My 2 cents worth .... how much does your roof overhang the side of your house? Looking at your "home-mount-location.jpg" .... you could use mast brackets that extend the mast past the overhang and lag screw them into the siding (hopefully into a 2x4); or install a couple of short 2x6 pieces horizontally first & then attaching the mast mounts. It may not look that great but it's a suggestion. They'll also need to be removed should you re-side your house (something else to keep in mind).

You also need to remember that the 4228 is heavy, so the mast will have to be clamped using about 1/3 of it's total length - ie: for a 10' mast, clamp #1 on the bottom and clamp #2 approx 4' above that (there is a formula but I can't remember it a the moment). Clamp #2 could be directly under the roof peak. This will give you about a 6' clearance above the roof.


I checked my roof overhang and it's 11 inches. I was thinking that I had two options:

Eave mount (CM-9030)
12" Wall mount (CM-9034)


The eave mount's lower arm is extendable up to 60". Considering my roof pitch (5 in 12), that would mean the lower arm could be a maximum of 1 foot below the upper arm. I didn't think this was much; also, I was curious if either of these mounts could hold 2 antennas (a UHF and a VHF). So, I contacted Channel Master tech support and got the following responses:

I'm looking to get a UHF antenna (CM-4228HD) and a VHF antenna (possibly the Delhi VIP302SR) so that I can watch TV OTA. I’m considering options for outdoor placement. I’m wondering if your wall mounts (CM-9032 or CM-9034) or your eave mount (CM-9030) would be strong enough to hold these two antennas (I think one weighs 7 lbs and the other 6 lbs)? Would you know if either is strong enough? Otherwise, would your chimney mount (CM-9067) or your tripod mount (CM-3092) be the only solution?

Thank you for your interest in Channel Master products. The Channel Master mounts are strong enough to support both the antennas in question. They support our heaviest antenna with ease which weighs upwards of 25 lbs. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Have a great day!

Second email conversation:
Just one more question: How far apart should the 2 eave mounts be for a stable setup? I have a relatively low pitched roof, and so I'm wondering if it might not be an option for me.

There is not a specification for minimal or maximum distance for setting up the eve mount. Common sense should be used when installing the mount. It should hold up under most any condition.

So, according to Channel Master, the mounts should easily take the weight of antennas (I only have the CM-4228HD at this time). I am concerned about the 1 foot distance between the two eave mounts, that this may not be far enough apart.

If I go with the 12" wall mounts (CM-9034), I was thinking of going into my attic and installing an extra 2x4 so that the wall mounts can be secured properly (since the holes for the lag bolts are about 10-12" apart). Also, is the 12" wall mount okay for an 11" overhang, or should I use 18" wall mounts instead for that extra distance away from the overhang?

Hmm, the more I think about it, the more I think I may have to use the wall mounts instead of the eave mount, especially because the two eave mounts are only a foot apart.

My question: how did the rest of you do your installations? Did you get a company to do it, or did you install it yourself?
-----

Hey Timojaak,

Our threads got split up, my original answer to your question is now in this thread fyi:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1306940#post1306940

Let us know what you decide and how it goes.

I would like to increase the height of my current tower by adding a few sections. [2-3] Obviously it will need to have guy wires, and I am looking for some guidance on the proper way to do this. Any suggestions are appreciated. Below is a picture of my current tower:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/300sflyer/DSC_0877.jpg
Anyone have a suggestion or two?

Thanks,

timojaak~

According to my notes, ground wire is 14 gauge (I knew there was an 8 in there somewhere!) ... & you'll also need a split-bolt (or similar) to connect it to the ground rod. A coax grounding block (placed where the coax enters the house) is also recommended. Attach it to the same 4' rod with another 14 gauge ground wire.

You can put 2 (or more) antennas on a mast - within reason. Minimum distance is 2 feet apart (called ganging or stacking). You'll need a VHF-LO antenna to receive Global (channel #6) in Ottawa. This doesn't have to be put on the mast - depending on your location (& placement of the antenna) it can be inside. The 4228 should pick up CTV (CJOH) digital.

Okay, I'm hearing that if I want to use an eave mount, I need to make sure that the distance between the two brackets should amount to 20-30% of the total length of the mast. It sucks that the distance I think I'll get it only 1 foot (due to my 5-in-12 roof pitch and the maximum width of the bottom bracket being 60").

Researching on the internet, I found two resources that show installing an eave mount for an antenna:

In the 1st URL (http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/1476678.html), they install with a 3-foot pipe although they say that after it's all up, you can "replace the shorter pipe used for installation with the desired length". So, it sounds like they think the mast could be longer. In their example pictures, it looks like the two brackets are 18" apart (it looks like half of the length of the 3-foot pipe).

In the 2nd URL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuY-D9fQG_s&feature=player_detailpage#t=269s), a guy shows on youtube how he installed an eave mount (note: my link jumps to a certain timeframe in the video to show the brackets installed). As you will see, he placed his two brackets maybe 6" apart. It's hard to tell how long his mast is but I'd guess at a 6-foot mast. Even if it's just a 4-foot mast, it still looks kind of crazy to only place the two brackets about 6" apart.

Thoughts? Comments?

Ideally, I'd still love to do an eave mount. The fence pipe I got from Home Depot is 7'6" so my 12" bracket distance wouldn't be very good. Does HD carry a shorter pipe (e.g. 5') that might work for my eave mount bracket distance? Just curious.

Has someone made up a list of good, better, best feedline options for OTA applications? I usually use Belden or Commscope which are (imho) the best for 75 ohm runs, but there are a lot of different options out there...
-C.

Yep, add your experiences in here:OTA Cabling: RG-6, RG-59, RG-11, Twin-Lead, Crimping, Other Tips (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=104308)

Strange it didn't show up in a search. Maybe I am just blind! :)
Tnx Stampeder..
-C.