Update to post #1475. With a break in the cold weather, I added back in that 5' piece after making my mast bottom heavy and even with the wind from the other day, it was much more stable! :cool:

I'm now at 18' above the ground and 8' above my top mount. I'm not sure I want to push it much more without guy wires.

roger1818: A 2 guy wire solution would fit for me (there's nothing I could attach a 3rd wire to :o ), but won't that just stop it from rocking side to side, and keep back-and-forthing as an issue?

roger1818 and kooguy: I'll keep that tower idea in my back pocket for now. ;)

A 2 guy wire solution would fit for me (there's nothing I could attach a 3rd wire to :o ), but won't that just stop it from rocking side to side, and keep back-and-forthing as an issue?

Exactly. That is why it is better than no wires but not as good as 3 or more. How useful it is depends on what direction the wind normally blows.

Steevo -- Before you do any roof climbing, I would recommend you purchase some good leather gloves, knee pads, flexible work boots with rubber soles and KORKERS brand spike plates for your boots. When you get to the edge of the roof on your ladder (make sure somebody is steadying the ladder) crawl over the ladder top and walk on your hands and knees until you reach the install location on your roof.
This method of locomotion is much safer for "roof newbies" than standing up and walking!

I am assuming you have a shingle roof -- if you have a metal or tile roof I'd recommend you hire a professional to do your antenna install. The metal or tile roofs are so slippery that the contractor may decide to use a "cherry picker" to do the antenna install. Also, make sure you ground your antenna assembly from the roof with with insulated, heavy gauge ground wire to a bonding rod driven into the earth. You don't want your equipment or any person getting zapped by a lightning strike!


Tim

Tim Cake - Thank you for the good advice! I am waiting for the snow to melt from my roof before going up there! Also I have just purchased a pair of stabilizing pieces (stand-off arms) that push into the sides of the top two rungs of my ladder - these allow the ladder to rest on the roof shingles as opposed to the eves troughs (the new ones of which a made of Aluminum as mine are). These (Aluminum) eves troughs may be more prone to distort under one's body weight on the ladder than the older steel variety possibly resulting in an unstable ladder support. I soon hope to install my new mast for UHF only TV antennas here in Calgary reducing the wind resistance of the installation. Good luck - Steevo. :)

Bill -- the ladder "bat wings" are a great idea! But don't neglect to have a help hold the ladder anytime somebody is on it!

I thought I did an "overbuilt" mast assembly for my el-cheapo UHF antenna and VHF donated antenna. I used a 5 foot tripod, lag screwed into the roof trusses, with TWO TB-105 antenna support bearings and a rotor. The top TB-105 was guy wired to the roof trusses with 1/4" aircraft cable. The mast and the support stub were made from 1.5" OD exhaust tube (from a muffler shop). Supposedly much stronger than the Channel-Master tubing.

Last week we had 80 mph wind gusts during our Chinook warm-up in Northern Montana. Lo and behold, the 32 bay variant of the McLapp UHF antenna and the Delphi VHF caught the wind and bent the rotating mast at 90 degrees, just above the top TB-105. In the next Chinook, I'm going up the roof with my Sawz-All to cut down the mess. I will replace all the tubing with 1.5" o.d. Schedule 40 galvanized pipe. That should work until the gods of the Rocky Mountains send 100 mph wind gusts... Shizzle!

Tim Cake - Good comment on assisted ladder support!

I have also been suffering from Chinook winds and hail damage. We had a large hail storm here in Calgary last year - July 12. I had to remove the mast and replace the rooves, mast and fix all of the antennas from the damage.
All of the eaves troughs and downspouts were also replaced. Every time I have taken down a mast, I have found them bent. The last one was only 15 feet long and previous ones only 10 feet (all purpose masting from suppliers such as Radio Shack). The new one that I have procured is 1 5/8" and Schedule 30. I propose to cut the 21 foot length to about 15 feet and use no rotator (as there is no advantage here in Calgary). I will be mounting 2 UHF yagi antennas including a Winegard 9032 and a UK UHF antenna of slightly smaller physical size. I have had to glue/re-attach some elements back onto both antennas and straighten out many of the others. I don't want to experience any 100 mile an hour Chinooks or see another golf ball sized hail stone - God forbid!

By the way - I checked out the sched 40 galv and "it's heavy" - hope your roof will support it!

The roof should be OK with schedule 40 pipe -- as long as the tripod is lag screwed directly to the rafters. One of tricks I use is to make I foot x 1 foot pads from two pieces of 3/4" marine plywood laminated together with polyurethane glue. Once the glue has dried overnight, I give them six coats of Thompson' Water Seal. I drill a hole larger than the lag screw in the pad to allow the tripod to be attached to the rafter. Before on-roof assembly, I liberally coat the plywood foot pad with instant roof patch tar (very messy -- but water tight!). Using a I/2 inch electric drill with a hex nut adapter, I then torque down the lag screw into the rafter. After all is done, I return to the roof the next day to add more instant roof patch compound to all the screws. Another trick to use is to liberally coat the threads of all screws with polyurethane glue before you torque them into their pre-drilled holes ....

Weight is one of the reasons I used a 5 foot tripod -- the leg spacings are just right for each of the foot pads to make contact with a rafter. With a 3 foot tripod, one or two of the foot pads only make contact with the roof sheathing -- a formula for disaster!

All of the roof attachments survived the 80 mph wind blast -- just the rotators mast failed just above the TB-105 support bearing. I'm lucky the FTA setup was close to the ground -- without TV I'd be forced to read a newspaper or look at internet blog sites for my news update -- the pain of it all!

tim :eek:

Could I mount an HD4221HD on a piggyback mount attached to my Bell dish mount? Or am I asking for trouble?

Rizzo, I believe someone posted a pic of such a mount--using the j-mount for the dish, with an extension for the antenna. Do a search through this thread. It is possible...

I was told to go with a 28" J-Mount/pole to put the Antenna Direct DB8 on my roof.

Would this be okay? Would strong winds be something to worry about?

I would be putting lag bolts into the truss (found by tapping with hammer).

Is this strong enough for this antenna?

As long as you get the lags into the truss, it will be strong enough. I've done a number of them on similar mounts.

However, a 28" J-mount won't give you enough height should you need to rotate the DB8 at all as it will be very close to the roof deck. A 40" J-mount offers a better option. A lot also depends on the pitch of the roof. A flat roof won't matter but a 12/12 pitch roof definitely will.

Rizzo:

Although mechanically possible, I would recommend against it. If you live in a "high wind area" I would go to the worthwhile trouble and expense of using a 5 foot tripod and 1.5" o.d. schedule 30 or better yet, schedule 40 galvanized pipe for the mast. Nothing rankles me more than having to go back up to the roof, cut down the old mast and install the new one. Don't forget to use guy wires too. In short, overbuild your system, and enjoy ignoring the install for a few years!

Tim

That is a very nice tower indeed. I'm looking at putting something similar up myself. It seems that you have no guy wires on this setup...

I'm basically about to put up a similar tower and am just wondering about limitations.

From the ground to my eave bracket I am about 18 feet, and I'm looking to put up a forty foot tower in total. Should I be concerned about going that far past the bracket or do I have to stay with a 30 foot tower...

Any thoughts are appreciated...

From the ground to my eave bracket I am about 18 feet, and I'm looking to put up a forty foot tower in total. Should I be concerned about going that far past the bracket or do I have to stay with a 30 foot tower...

It depends on the design of the tower. Check the installation manual for the tower you are buying.

Here are the Delhi tower specifacations, and the towers from Save And Reply. ;)

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/GN.pdf

http://overtheair.saveandreplay.com/Antenna_Towers.asp

I was going to give my two cents, but I realized you meant the *tower* tower, as opposed to the mast tower.

I still have pictures somewherez of what happens when a chimney mounted mast meets 55 MPH winds. I learned two things:

I'm an idiot

How to mortar bricks.

The second actually came in handy the next summer, saving me nearly $3000 for repairing a parapet.

I still have pictures somewherez of what happens when a chimney mounted mast meets 55 MPH wind

do you still have those pictures? I think I need to be afraid so I don't make mistake...

jf

Thanks for the link on the towers 300flyer. That helps a lot.. just a few more questions... the help is appreciated.

As I mentioned, the house bracket is up about 18 feet, the restrictions on the golden nugget towers go like this...

Designed to support equipment up to 3 square ft. (0.28 m2) projected wind
area, mounted not more than 2 sections above house bracket...

So, if I'm going up 40 ft, three regular sections and a top... do you intepret that I am okay to have 2 sections + 2 additional feet above the house bracket. To me it sounds okay since I have two sections above the house bracket, but not three...

My second questions is about the 3 square ft. wind loads. I can't seem to find anywhere what the Winegard 8200U generates with respect to windloads.. thoughts?

Finally, there doesn't seem to be any distinction between the 18 guage and the 16 guage?? I'm inclinded to go with the 18 guage to be on the safe side, but is it necessary?

Does that setup I'm preparing for sound sustainable?

Thanks for the help...

A total of 4 sections of tower including the top, sounds ok to me. You are going to have a few feet of the bottom section in the ground, [mine is 2 feet below grade] so you should be fine.

I could not find anything with respect to wind area on my HD8200U before installing it either... So far so good... LOL! ;)

Is the gauging on the towers like wire gauging? The smaller the number, the thicker the wire, so would 16 not be stronger than 18?

Tubular bracketed towers aren't generally designed to be dug into the ground. Rather, a base plate is typically used. You then drive stakes through the base plate into the ground.

Using a base plate is the preferred method, as this allows any moisture in the tubes to drain out properly. Thus preventing freezing and splitting of the structure.