I messed up one of the moderator tools so I had to cut and paste some of the messages in this thread. That's why some of them look so odd. Sorry about that.

whatsup745
04-27-2005, 03:08 PM

Knowing the Port Perry area quite well I'd suggest getting higher.
Another section of tower would be your best bet.
Simply adding a longer pole and you could easily have a bent over pole next summer.

The average Antenna system should be a total of 40-50 feet in the Durham area. Thats optimal height for our area for both VHF & UHF.
Each section of TV tower (tubular) type is 10 feet mids & 9.5 foot tops.

HDTV101
04-27-2005, 03:25 PM

Simply adding a longer pole and you could easily have a bent over pole next summer.


Yes he will..... keep in mind that the CM 4228 is a 16 pound antenna.

GARYGNU
04-27-2005, 07:24 PM

The antenna tower has to be self supporting, guy wires is not an option. The tower itself is in pretty good shape, some rust but not corroded thru. The tower is the most common type that I have seen. It has 1" tubing going upwards and measures approx 11.5" between each tube.

I will stay away from extending the pole due to the excessive weight of the CM 4228 antenna. I imagine it is also hard to work at the top with such a long pole.

A 40' plus tower sure sounds serious. Would I need a professional installer?

HDTV101
04-27-2005, 07:50 PM

If I was you I would call up a professional Antenna installer and ask him to come by your place to just give you an estimate. While he’s there you could pick his brain and ask him about the quality of the tower, if he thinks it still good enough to extend, tell him what you want to do and get his advice… since it’s an estimate you can get the advice for free. If you then feel you want to use his service then do so or do it your self if you think you can handle the job. He might even have the antenna you want and other equipment in his truck to sell you.. saves you the trouble of buying it elsewhere.

GARYGNU
04-28-2005, 04:03 PM

The one quote I received over the phone indicated that labour alone was $70.00 for the first HALF hour and $30.00 for every HALF hour after that (+ GST). Three hours of labour is almost $400!

If I was to proceed on my own, how would I prpceed. Lets say, for example, that I add an extra tower section and remove the old rotor based antenna. Does the whole tower need to come down first? ...

gnone
04-29-2005, 11:03 AM

The one quote I received over the phone indicated that labour alone was $70.00 for the first HALF hour and $30.00 for every HALF hour after that (+ GST). Three hours of labour is almost $400!

If I was to proceed on my own, how would I prpceed. Lets say, for example, that I add an extra tower section and remove the old rotor based antenna. Does the whole tower need to come down first? ...

I would say yes only because from my recent experience in grabbing my neighbours TV tower, there was no safe way to uninstall the older mast/rotator and antenna as the parts were either rusted or ceased up. As well, depending on the size of the antenna and mast, it can be awkward to manipulate. But that all depends on your particular situation based on your roof and slope, you might be able to safely remove.

From my experience, we took down a 24' tower and accessories during a mild day this winter. We didn't even bother trying to dig up the buried 18" section as we just sawed off the house brackets and the tower just above the ground with a sawzal. With one person supporting and steadying the weight of the upper section of the tower via way of a rope, we had two other guys basically walking it down. Overall the tower and antenna is not heavy, actually it surprised me how light everything was. I plan to reverse the same procedure, but I'll be digging a hole for the base section in order to steady the raising of the tower and antenna. Where or not I drop in a bag or two of cement is an option for now. Good luck either way. Keep extra safe especially with power lines around.

GARYGNU
05-09-2005, 10:37 AM

Things are moving along slowly. I just received my CM 7777 amp. Got a used one on eBAY for $70.00 cdn total. Temporarily adding the amp at the end of a 50 foot RG6 cable improved my CBC signal from 5 to 8 bars. Still no other stations. I am gambling that extra tower height will get me more. Hopefully, some of the other stations boost their power soon.

I do need to get some short RG6 cables to go between the antenna and amp on the tower. Any ideas?

Now I am trying to source two 10' antenna tower sections. I have decided to take down the existing antenna to do the mods.

I also have to see whether my current base is cemented in or not. If it is, I may need an extra section. Also, there is not another good spot to mount the antenna.

I will keep this thread updated with my progress. Please keep the suggestions coming. If anyone lives in the Port Perry/Uxbridge area and is interested in helping/learning together, PM me.

If you are in a DTV OTA area here's a cheap, simple alternative to hiring a professional with signal detection equipment. You get what you pay for, so I recommend the professional for best results! :)

You'll need a small portable TV and antenna (rabbit ears if you have to, but a proper antenna in medium to deep fringe areas), a stepladder, a hammer and some pegs, a compass, some duct tape, and maybe an assistant to help carry stuff and keep notes. If you already have a DTV tuner, that's even better because you can log the results of its strength meter as you test. In my case I use a 13" portable colour tv with a Channel Master 4228 antenna on a 3m mast.

Methodically walk the TV around your yard in 1 x 1 metre grid steps (you can even do this on your roof, but be careful!) using the compass to point the antenna at the area where the DTV stations are, repeatedly scanning all the VHF and UHF analog channels each time you move to the next grid. Repeat repeat repeat... and don't make assumptions that you won't need to scan all the channels each and every time. Half a meter can make a difference, so go through them all each time.

If you find that some of the analog stations might be snowy that's okay because that means signal strength is the only problem. If ghosting is occurring, you have a more serious problem called "multipathing", which is always to be avoided since an equivalent DTV signal would therefore probably not be viable for reception at that specific location. DTV is hit particularly hard by multipathing.

Generally if you find one or two "sweet spots" in which you are getting a good number of analog stations in relatively good signal condition with minimal ghosting, hammer a locator peg into the grass or mark a locator on your roof with duct tape (which you can write on with a ball point pen), write down your results in a log book, and try to find out how altitude affects the results by taking the gear up the stepladder. Of course stepladders and roofs are generally a bad combination... ;) so please don't try that. Usually the higher the antenna the better, but that's not always true in areas with big trees and building overhangs, sundeck roofs, etc. so don't be surprised if there is no performance gain.

When you're back at your computer compare your written results with the other results from your area here in the stickied threads to see how good you're doing. If all looks good you can set up an antenna on a mast there and start pulling in the DTV stations.

Note that you get what you paid for, so if you're not satisfied with the results, its time to get that professional to come over and run proper tests.

For photos of HDTV101's top notch antenna installation see these posts:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220622&postcount=26

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showpost.php?p=221165&postcount=38

or check out the entire "Pimp My Gear" photos thread:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24755

My new channel master rotor is remote controlled.

with these tripods do you actually need to secure into the surface they are sitting on or are they stable enough free-standing?

i don't like the idea of fastening anything to my roof shingles

How critical to keep the cable in one piece, can I run to the centre of the house for future splitting to a future DT television upstairs and then complete the run to the HT room with a new cable?.

When ever planning to wire a home for any kind on TV or Video distribution always have a center point and run all wiring from this point to all areas of the home that will need to connect to the system. This way no matter what you want to do later you can make the changes quick and simple at the Distribution Center.

Here is my Satellite, Cable TV, and Security Camera "Distribution Center".
http://vanuatusportfishing.com/UHF/cabling/main.JPG

From here I have control over all the video wiring of my entire home! I can make feed changes at any time by just changing the jumpers around.
http://vanuatusportfishing.com/UHF/cabling/main2.JPG

Also included in my Distribution Center is the input from 5 Security Cameras that are placed outside around my home.
http://vanuatusportfishing.com/UHF/cabling/cam.jpg

The security cameras area modulated onto 6 UHF channels and inserted into the home video system and all cameras are available to all TV's through out my home. The 6th channel is from the sequencer that gives me an automatic look from all cameras at one time!
http://vanuatusportfishing.com/UHF/cabling/trunkline.JPG

HDTV101,

Your right, that's the only way to do it ! Just one question where is the shelf with the bottle of Tylanol ?? I get a headache just looking at all your cables !!! LOL

HDTV101 - Thanks for posting your picture. My wife could not believe that someone else had more wires running than I installed.

Terrific photos and installation, HDTV101. Well done!

The main purpose of lightning protection and grounding is to prevent your house from burning down. Even so, a direct hit is likely to cause "minor" (ha!) damage to some or most of your home theatre equipment.

If you want to protect your gear the way professional installations are perfectly protected, then as step one: move into a metal building. Once you're in a metal building, then you can use the same entrance protection systems as used by the pros.

I've just gone through the exercise of determining the proper bearing given my specific location and though I'd share with everyone else how to do this -- and in the progress figured out that I'm a good 20 degrees off of where I should be pointing!

(An excel spreadsheet helps for this)

1) Go to google earth, and download the free explorer. Find your home on the map, and take down you exact latitude and longitude coordinates.

2) Go to http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html and search for the city you'd like to aim for. In Ontario that city is typically the CN tower, buffalo and/or rochester. Take down the bearings of a few of the stations' antennas you are shooting for.

3) Use the tool at http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/LatLong.html to find out the exact bearing you should be aiming for. This bearing produced for people in Ontario (and BC as well) should be EAST of North.

(Almost there!)

4) Use the Natural Resources Canada declination calculator to find the difference between magnetic north and true north in your area: http://gsc.nrcan.gc.ca/geomag/field/mdcalc_e.php
In Toronto it is 10.4 degrees west of north. Meaning the needle will point 10.4 degrees west of north when you are facing true north. In Toronto this means you will ADD the 10.4 degrees declination to any bearing you get from step 3.

5) Grab/borrow a (decent) compass. Align your antenna to compromise between all the stations you are looking to receive from. Be sure to factor in declination (difference between magnetic and true north).
If you do not have any serious geographical or man-made obstacles you should be in business! Enjoy!

Gordon

I've just gone through the exercise of determining the proper bearing given my specific location and though I'd share with everyone else how to do this -- and in the progress figured out that I'm a good 20 degrees off of where I should be pointing!
That's great info, and locations of all Canadian TV transmission antennas can be found at:

http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/

while U.S. ones can be found at:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html

Just one thing though to rain a bit on the parade: don't forget to consider the terrain between your receiving antenna and the broadcast antennas. Numbers are terrific to have, but bear in mind the difficulties posed by elevation changes and/or obstructions, such as between Vancouver and Seattle, or below the Niagara Escarpment from Buffalo.

One thing to remeber, the inclination/declination really doesn't have much affect if the stations are in a N.W - S.E. direction, and at most the effect is only 1 or 2 degrees -- not really enough to affect the signal.

Also, if you know your lat/long, a good site to give you all the stations in your area and the distance/direction is:

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

One thing to remeber, the inclination/declination really doesn't have much affect if the stations are in a N.W - S.E. direction, and at most the effect is only 1 or 2 degrees -- not really enough to affect the signal.

Just want to clarify here: What's declination got to do with affect on the signal? If someone has a compass and does not take into account the effects of declination then they would be off more than 10 degrees in Toronto! Wherever the compass holder is (regardless of where the stations are) they should take into account that their needle will be pointing at magnetic north ... and all the topographic maps and lat/long coordinates and bearings will be based on TRUE north measurements.

Just want to clarify here: What's declination got to do with affect on the signal? If someone has a compass and does not take into account the effects of declination then they would be off more than 10 degrees in Toronto! Wherever the compass holder is (regardless of where the stations are) they should take into account that their needle will be pointing at magnetic north ... and all the topographic maps and lat/long coordinates and bearings will be based on TRUE north measurements.

The effect of declination is the same at both ends of the measurment, so the net effect is that your direction is essentially unchanged. Also, with an antenna distance measurement, you are only looking at between 50 and 100 miles.

There could be an affect on signal, because your aim will be off - it depends on the antenna beamwidth.

I agree with both of you. ;) I live next to a street that runs north-south and was originally chained (surveyed) using the nearest meridian and not compasses. Since my own antenna and the broadcast transmission antennas are at fixed geographic coordinates, I can determine the difference in position (in degrees) using arithmetic to arrive at the correct angle. Then its possible to line up my antenna north-south with that street and turn it the appropriate amount of degrees. Without such a reference it would be necessary to do it by compass, at which point the factoring of declination will be necessary.

Here is another inverse tool from NRCan (http://www.geod.nrcan.gc.ca/apps/indir/inverse_e.php).

The tool is for accurate azimuth determination. The ellipsoid to use is GRS80 but really any will do with the accuracy we are talking about here.

Anyone have pics or suggestions on how to secure the mast holding a cm4228 and a rotator? Over the past 2 weeks (2 days in particular with high winds) I have noticed that my 10' mast has bent to the right. Unfortunately this has become a problem as while I am still able to pull in CTV/CITY with the rotator - I have lost significant signal strength on the US feeds (averaging 60-70%). I've noticed that due to the bend the antenna is now tilted downwards a tad... Its currently mounted to the chimney but I'm thinking either the pole needs replacing or I need to reconsider the mount altogether. I don't have a current pic of the problem but I do have the original setup (a few months back) when it was really working out.. Now I'm not so sure anymore... :( any suggestions?

old pics
http://photobucket.com/albums/b233/open6l/

Actually my mistake - I do have a few shots in there.. the bend is actually a bit worse now and that white discoloration is some old duct tape that was on the pole - its not due to the bend...