Since we can't discuss products in the Canadian Digital Deal area, I've started a new thread to discuss LCD products (26" and over) in this price range. Most likely newcomers to HDTV, or those looking for a bedroom tv, will find this useful (I hope). If not, at least I'll find it helpful, being a newbie :)

My requirements: watching regular standard cable TV (Videotron), Xbox, and DVDs...what I'm a little concerned about is how standard televison is going to be handled by the sets I mention below...

I've identified these possible LCD sets for now...

~$1000 Acer AL2671W (Zellers)
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=1013
http://www.compshopper.co.uk/shoppe...er-al2671w.html

~$1400 Daytek DT-3220 (Costco) reviews only from forums I read if I remember correctly...

~$900 Viewsonic N2750W (Costco) I read a UK review somewhere but the TV looked quite different from the one advertised at Costco...

Obviously, I'd like to spend closer to the $900 mark, unless there's more value by spending a little more...and since these are lesser known brands, any first hand feedback on these brands is appreciated...

Acer is from Taiwan and Daytek is from a Korean company. Acer is running very well in Europe now (that is why the 2 links is from UK), it is said that Acer is holding the #1 share on its notebook PC marketing in Eorope (or PC?). Acer used to be #1 PC manufacturer in Taiwan (still is?). BenQ is derived from Acer. General speaking Acer and BenQ are very good on their IT products. I have all BenQ, Acer and Viewsonic products at home and very happy with them. I am thinking to replace my 17" BenQ LCD with this 26" LCD TV now. Guess I need to dig out more about this. Hope someone who own the bigger screen LCD TV hooked on their PC can provide more information to help my decision.

The idea of a "bedroom" LCD FP TV of 26" seems about right when comparing to a 20" 4:3 set.

But, most "bedroom" shows my wife likes to watch are SD 4:3 (not in HD right now--A&E, History, weather channel, the dreaded "W" channel, etc.). CBC was showing Coronation Street in an "in betweeen" format, but it seemed to be upconverted poorly to 1080i rather than the UK version which I've seen displayed wonderfully in England in it's pristine form.

The idea of a "compact" flat panel intrigues her enough to allow me to consider such a purchase, but viewing an SD 4:3 picture becomes VERY important. We both dislike any form of stretching or cropping and accept black/grey bars left and right (pillarboxing).

Are there any "free" (relatively unbiased) comparison internet sites in North American cyberland which would address this?

I would emphatically press one point: Get something with HDMI+HDCP.


Rather you'll be using the screens DVI connection, from a next generation follow up to DVD, whether it turns out to be HD-DVD or Blu-ray. However, while Sky is broadcasting HDTV from 2006, it has confirmed that to watch, displays will require HDCP (High Bandwidth Content Protection) support, via HDMI or DVI.

HDCP is actually an Intel conceived technology designed to encrypt digital signals and has been widely adopted across the consumer electronics industry. From the specs available for the Acer, there’s no indication that it is indeed compliant, unlike the recently reviewed Viewsonic N3000W. One would imagine that if it did support it, Acer would shout it from the rooftops.


HD DVD and Blu-Ray WILL require HDCP too. And you'll potentially be able to get thin clients (simple STBs) that receive a stream from a player or a media server over a home network (which could be the power socket).

So, all sorts of new stuff, like HD discs and HD VOD will be less appealing without the appropriate connection.

DVI may be OK. HDMI will be OK.

Gary

I found this site dated March 2005 (out of California?) which compares 26” LCD Flat Panel TVs:

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20050329/

It’s called Tom’s Hardware Guide and seems to do some “bench” testing of products. In March he was highlighting 26” LCDs. Not all North American available items are tested, nor does he indicate where the units are manufactured (just where they are marketed).

"To Buy Or Not To Buy"

"This ends the first installment of our comparison of LCD TVs. After having seen a few sets, we have come to the conclusion that the Samsung LT-P266W (LW26A33W in Europe) is the best 26" LCD we have seen to date. It's by far the best in terms of quality/price ratio. It offers first-class performance at a price that's low and still coming down further. It has undeniable video qualities and its good interpolation will let you use your existing video equipment. Keep in mind, though, that an LCD can't come close to the quality of a CRT TV in this department.
Moreover, the 26" diagonal is the most interesting for image scaling. Above 26", there is little chance to get premium interpolation quality. Of course, if you decided to go down the HDTV route, you are probably less interested into this feature, but check with us in a few weeks for the second part of this comparison, which will cover 30" and 32" LCD TVs."

Thanks for the feedback,

Hmmm...is DVI+HDCP OK for future techs?

I just pulled this spec from the Acer.ca web site:
http://www.acer.ca/acerpanam/page9.do?dau34.oid=10776&UserCtxParam=0&GroupCtxParam=0&dctx1=27&CountryISOCtxParam=CA&LanguageISOCtxParam=en&crc=1612112871

Connectivity: PC D-sub, PC audio in, RCA for CVBS, audio R/L, DVI-D (HDCP), headphone

Strangely, no mention of component or S-video but I think it has them...how could it not? (Tigerdirect has those inputs listed for the Acer...)

I checked the specs for the N3000W and it has the same on their web site: DVI-D (HDCP) (audio shared with input 5)...but they don't sell it anywhere I know of, at least not yet...only the N2750W I've seen so far.

Thanks for the feedback,

Hmmm...is DVI+HDCP OK for future techs?


It should be. But, there is no guarantee it will be. With HDMI the target device is queried for capabilities, resolutions, etc. using a back channel.

Despite HDMI being supposed be backwards compatible with DVI, the lack of a back-channel for information with DVI may end up having erroneous blocking of HDCP from HDMI outputs to DVI inputs (blue screen of death), or sync problems. You can find examples of this on these forums.

The insiders consistently say "get HDMI, that will work". At least, I think the idea is that the CEs will work to make sure it HDMI to HDMI problems are resolved, while they may say "tough luck" to DVI problems.

Gary

Wow, I only heard of S-video and component connections maybe a year ago...and now I hear about DVI and HDMI...so much to learn about just to watch TV!

I have to think about this now...grrr why don't they just make them compatible :)

Update: I just saw your post elsewhere dialog_gvf, where you say the Xbox360 does not have DVI or HDMI...just component...are you saying that component is not enough? I'm not aware of any "low cost" LCDs with HDMI inputs anyways...

I have no plans to upgrade to HD DVD any time soon...I'll probably be stuck with current DVDs and next gen consoles for the foreseeable future...

I have no plans to upgrade to HD DVD any time soon...I'll probably be stuck with current DVDs and next gen consoles for the foreseeable future...

That's understandable, considering how much HD DVD/Blu-Ray will cost initially (although the Playstation 3 is likely to be a quick and cheap route). But, unless you plan on upgrading your monitor, you want to make sure you're at least compatible should you want to go with HD discs.

Gary

That's understandable, considering how much HD DVD/Blu-Ray will cost initially (although the Playstation 3 is likely to be a quick and cheap route). But, unless you plan on upgrading your monitor, you want to make sure you're at least compatible should you want to go with HD discs.

Gary

Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye out for HD/Bluray, PS3 prices...

But as long as component outputs are around for while (at least I hope so), I feel pretty comfortable with that...(PS3 doesn't have that does it?)...also HDMI doesn't seem to be standard on HDTV sets yet...

Can you even buy an HDTV now without an HDMI port? I was under the impression that it was pretty much a standard now. (just curious)

The PS3 will indeed probably be the 'cheap' route to Bluray, but cheap is a relative term. They're predicting $1200+ US for new standalone Bluray players, and the there's no way the PS3 will launch at the normal $400CAD sweet-spot...I'm expecting closer to the $550+ mark unless Sony pulls some of the tech. (what the hey-hey do you need dual HDMI ports for anyways... ...geez!? :)) Still, $550 isn't bad for new technology. (Sorry to steer the post away from it's original intent.)

Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye out for HD/Bluray, PS3 prices...

But as long as component outputs are around for while (at least I hope so), I feel pretty comfortable with that...(PS3 doesn't have that does it?)...also HDMI doesn't seem to be standard on HDTV sets yet...

The PS/3 will have HDMI.

Couple of issues:

(1) There won't be HD out the component outputs for movie discs. The studios are only going to allow downconverted resolution out of those.

(2) Perhaps TVs have better analogue to digital converters, but I find analogue input to a LCD panel to be terrible compared to the DVI. I think you'll find you'll get a better quality picture using the digital interface.

Gary

I have no experience with HDTV or LCD TVs, but for a smallish LCD TV 26-30" will you notice the inferior picture quality with only component?

I was hoping that all sets have HDMI (after what I read here), but the sets I mentioned above do not have HDMI as far as I know, and neither does Costco's Sanyo 42" HDTV Plasma (which I looked at yesterday)...

Those HDMI to DVI adaptors that are currently on sale, do they actually work? Would they solve the "having only DVI (HDCP) inputs" issue?

(1) There won't be HD out the component outputs for movie discs. The studios are only going to allow downconverted resolution out of those.
That's quite disappointing to hear, the Xbox360 will output HD games with only component cables...

$1200+ US for new standalone Bluray players vs ~$550 for PS3...I've heard that too, but does that make sense? Wouldn't you just buy a PS3 then?

I kind of leaning towards the Acer, UK reviews are quite good (too bad there are no North American reviews)...but at the same time thinking I should hold off, until after/during the end of year holiday season...

I was hoping that all sets have HDMI (after what I read here), but the sets I mentioned above do not have HDMI as far as I know, and neither does Costco's Sanyo 42" HDTV Plasma (which I looked at yesterday)...
Ah, I didn't know that. Go fig.

$1200+ US for new standalone Bluray players vs ~$550 for PS3...I've heard that too, but does that make sense? Wouldn't you just buy a PS3 then?
You could, and in the past I would have figured the PS3 will be an adequate player, but nothing special. But Sony seems to be positioning the PS3 as the best of everything to everyone instead of simply being a great games machine, so it's quite possible that it'll be a decent player. On top of that given that it should be able to run Linux, or OSX, there's no reason you couldn't get your own impressive little software DVD player.

It's definately a plus for the Bluray camp though, I mean I say I'll sit on the fence while I wait for the HD-DVD/Bluray stuff to get sorted out, but I'll already have a Bluray player in the PS3. As long as Sony doesn't go absolutely insane and price it way too high, so will a lot of people. (Some of the quotes coming out of Japan from Sony executives are puzzling at best. :))

So back to choosing a bedroom LCD, what did everyone pick? I would like to get one that I can hang on the wall and be able to produce decent SD.

and what's a widescreen size that is close to the regular 28" TV?

I am actually putting this over the fire place, which has not enough room unless it's hung. I will watch it when I'm doing stuff in the kitchen. generally just for sit coms, TLC, HGN.

anyone purchased one for their living room for a similar situation like mine?

"So back to choosing a bedroom LCD, what did everyone pick?"
I'm going to put my purchase on hold at the moment...from what I've read from all over the place, it just seems that the technology (LCD/plasma) is not quite mature for my personal tastes, not enough bang for your buck just yet (even though prices are falling)...maybe around the holiday season if prices drop significantly more...

Man oh man...I would NEVER touch anything other then a Sharp, Panasonic or Samsung.

What's nice is that this year the prices are REALLY good. It always wants to make you go bigger.

In this price range I believe you can get a Toshiba 27" for $1499 , a Sharp 26" for $1499 and a 26" Panasonic for $1599.

thank you so much givenchy314! for the last month i have been researching HD screens in anticipation of the Xbox360. I wanted a tv/monitor that i could use with it and my current systems(ps2, xbox). i was just about to give up when i found this site and your recommendation.

at first i wanted a pc monitor but i found the resolutions too high for the consoles(even the 360 & PS3). i heard if LCDs are forced to scale to a lower resolution the image would appear blurry. then i wanted to do CRTs but they dont offer them larger than 23" it seems. plus my budget is set to $1000. But thanks to you I think i have found the tv/monitor thats just for me. sure the native resolution isnt as super high as a pc monitor but it's perfect for my consoles.

the thing is im still on the fence about purchasing it.i have a few concerns i hope i may get help with. first being refresh rate. is 16ms fast enough for consol gaming? i mean i wish i could take my xbox and burnout revenge to the store to test it but i dont think that would sit well with them ;) . this is a big investment for me and i want to make sure i wont be disappointed. i have a psp and the ghosting on that is horrible. i just dont want that problem with the monitor.

i thougth i had more concerns but that seems to be it. i would truly appreciate your help. i really want to grab this tv by friday. sorry for the long post im just really excited! peace :p

is 16ms fast enough for consol gaming?
I wish I can give some first hand advice, but I'm probably in the same boat as you...what I would do is check the store's return policy before buying...make sure you can get a full refund if the ghosting (if you see any) bothers you...let us know how it turns out if you buy it!

What's nice is that this year the prices are REALLY good. It always wants to make you go bigger.
This seems true, the prices seem to be slowly inching their way down...I may spring for a larger tv and pay the extra cost, if they continue dropping the price...right now it doesn't feel right to drop up to $2000 including taxes, and not even get a brand name 30" panel hdtv...

maybe i should just take the plunge. i really want to go out right now a pick it up. i think i'll call them and see if i can test the store model with my xbox. they'll prolly laugh in my face but who knows. i just wish there were more reviews on this tv.