I've been watching this discussion, and I would like to interject with something. Where I live, the real estate prices are roughly half of Vancouver's prices, which is about an hour commute. The closer you live to Van. the higher it gets. Also, it's such a seller's market there it's common to get several thousand more than what you were asking.

In this situation, many people would not be able to buy anywhere near Vancouver, but have a highly paid job there with good career advancement. To rent would be just throwing money away when one could invest in a home, which builds up equity. Most people in this situation come to the same conclusion; buy where you can afford and commute. It's a result of living in the lower mainland, where most of the population of B.C. resides. This choice isn't forced on them, but the alternative, to throw away money renting since they can't afford a $600000 mortgage, just doesn't make sense, even if they are faced with a long commute. I say it's the wildly high prices that are having an effect on the amount of driving a person has to do, more than being just a choice.

In this market (Van) my friend bought a condo, about 650 sq.ft., which is quite small. the cost was $240,000 and now one year later it's close to $300,000. Townhouses are more.

>>>Also, it's such a seller's market there it's common to get several thousand more than what you were asking.<<<

Same thing is going on here in Peterborough, Ontario, people are bidding on houses, getting alot more than asking price, and it is as you say, cheaper for people to comute here from Peterborough, pay lower property tax, than to live close to where they work...

Also I belive the movie White Noise was filmed in Van, looks like a gorgious place

Of course prices affect which choices people make. I don't understand the point.

About 6 years ago, my husband and I were in Vancouver, and we rented
a car at the airport. They gave us instructions to the hotel, and we saw the Dallas Stars pay a hockey game. We know nothing about hockey, but we wanted to see Vancouver.

He was driving along a fairly major street, when his head whipped around, and he said, "Look at that! They get gas for 52 cents a gallon!" He was utterly amazed, because at the time, our gas was about $1.25 per gallon.

I had to click-click my brain in gear, and I explained to him that it was per liter. He asked me how many liters were in a gallon. Well, I didn't know exactly right off the top of my head - it never came up before, but I was mentally comparing the Pepsi bottle to the 1 gallon milk carton. So, I answered, "A little more than 2 times as much."

"Oh..." he said, "that makes more sense." I am seeing gas in Texas at $2.29 per gallon for regular. How that compares - gosh - you tell me.

Uncle

About 6 years ago, my husband and I were in Vancouver, and we rented
a car at the airport. They gave us instructions to the hotel, and we saw the Dallas Stars pay a hockey game. We know nothing about hockey, but we wanted to see Vancouver.

He was driving along a fairly major street, when his head whipped around, and he said, "Look at that! They get gas for 52 cents a gallon!" He was utterly amazed, because at the time, our gas was about $1.25 per gallon.

I had to click-click my brain in gear, and I explained to him that it was per liter. He asked me how many liters were in a gallon. Well, I didn't know exactly right off the top of my head - it never came up before, but I was mentally comparing the Pepsi bottle to the 1 gallon milk carton. So, I answered, "A little more than 2 times as much."

"Oh..." he said, "that makes more sense." I am seeing gas in Texas at $2.29 per gallon for regular. How that compares - gosh - you tell me.

Uncle

Actually it's closer to 4 times.
1 gallon [US, liquid] = 3.7854118 liter

Gas is 97.5 in Winnipeg at the moment so 0.975 x 3.78 + $3.685 or $3.69, and I don't think they are paying close to that in the USA for Gas.

Shawguy

Gas is 97.5 in Winnipeg at the moment so 0.975 x 3.78 + $3.685 or $3.69, and I don't think they are paying close to that in the USA for Gas.

Shawguy

Yeah, I'll watch the Seattle news and see them freaking out when it hits $2.50/gallon.
Here in Nanaimo we are paying $3.84/gallon.

Meh, it still costs less than $25 to fill my Geo so I'm not complaining too much. :)

Make sure you factor in 20% for the exchange rate. Not that we aren't paying more, but let's make sure we are comparing apples to apples.

Actually it's closer to 4 times.

Now don't you tell my husband ;) He believed me. Four times - a gallon is four times larger than a liter? I am sure you are right, but it doesn't compute when I look at the Pepsi bottle (2 ltrs) - and then at the milk jug (1 gal.).
I guess it's the different shape that is throwing me off.

You guys are really paying a lot for gas - it was $2.23 per gallon this morning when I went to the grocery store. The important ramifications for all of us is that GROCERIES and anything else that is delivered by truck (practically everything) - is going up up up - because as the butcher told me - "The higher cost of fuel is driving up grocery prices." I could tell - I mean, everything in the store had gone up at least 50 cents since 2 weeks ago.

Uncle

unclepercy, when your hubby isn't looking take an empty Pepsi bottle and an empty milk jug. Fill the Pepsi bottle with water and pour it into the milk jug. You will see we aren't pulling your leg. :D

Exact Conversion is:

1 gal (US) = 3.785412 liters

All this talk about planning where to live, so as to be closer to work and thus use bus/train or just walk, etc.

How one can plan five years ahead where to live?
Nowadays what are the chances that you will be working in the same place?

I am sorry but a car is not a luxury, it is a necessity and that is why the governement milks us drivers, because it knows that nowadays we cannot live without a vehicle and that is what makes me mad.

If you are a smoker you can quit, if you drink you can quit.
If you drive to work, how can you quit driving?

I lived and worked for 25 years in the Atlantic Provinces, and not once did I own a vehicle to get to my workplace -- I walked. Yes, I had to choose to live where I did, to be able to do this, and that's exactly what I did -- I made a personal decision to do so. I'm not saying, or do I wish to imply that this would work for everyone, but it worked for me -- in Halifax, Corner Brook, Newcastle (now Miramichi), and Moncton.

I cannot agree that a car is a 'necessity' for all. Many car owners have just not tried, or even attempted to try any alternative. IMO, I believe they think/feel that public transit is somehow 'beneath' them, or they justify using their car because public transit in their opinion just "takes too long", etc.

Yes, some people do not have an option, but many people do have options, they just do not wish to try them.

Last week I saw a guy hitch hiking in my quiet little neighbourhood. Turns out he just discovered that the buses only run during peak hours in my area. I went to drive him to the nearest bus stop that was running; and for the heck of it I called tele-ride. The voice told me it would be 54 minutes for the next bus.

I had one more stop to make, and then would be going to where the C-train was. He tagged along.

Calgary Transit has always maintained that they don't provide more service because ridership is low. However I believe ridership is low due to lack of service.

I still remember New Year's Eve a few years ago. I was trying to plan my route without having to drive. I called Calgary Transit and asked when the last train was due to leave Anderson Station that night. I was told 11:54pm. :o I asked them if they planned on having any additional service; being New Year's and all. The said only from downtown to the stations, but not the other way. The also suggested that maybe I should re-think my plans to fall within what service they were offering.

As for choice in where to live? My house in an established neighbourhood would have cost me $50K-$100K more for the same type of house. Or I could buy a condo and be subject to their rules (no air conditioners, no satellite dishes.)

For me, a car is needed.

I live in a small town with no Public Transit. I work 36kms West of my house, my wife works 34 kms East.

For me, two cars are needed.

Due to some personal circumstances i am now living in Toronto, i was an hour outside of the city before. And trust me when i say this, i like my 15 minute drive to work and not the hour to 1 1/2 hrs it sometime took me. I also like the fact my Jeep is not packing on the miles and the 15 bucks a day i was spending on gas. And o yea i just bought a house in Toronto, i plan on staying a long time

Cheers

Leo

Two main reasons diesels have never picked up here. Gas is cheaper than Europe, so not much reason to put up with the soot, hard cold starting, smell, noise and rattling of diesels. Although they are getting better (at least in cars), the trouble nowadays is that they pollute the environment worse than gasoline engines do. Those high NOx are a big part in the creation of smog.

You can't even buy a new TDI in California, New York, Massachusetts, Maine or Vermont. They don't pass emissions requirements. With Ontario's ozone days and summer smog days, I wouldn't be surprised if they got rid of diesels some day too.

The TDI and Smart do not smoke much at all and starting next year will have particle filters pretty much reducing smoke to zero.

They do not rattle and make noise.

They are not hard to start in the cold.

The important greenhouse gas is CO2 not NO2. The NO2 breakes down but you are stuck with C02 until it is absorbed by oceans or plant life. Diesels are far better with CO2 than gasoline engines (notice GM is fighting CO2 regulations in Congress ? ) NO2 can be seen and is bad for politics, CO2 is invisible so who cares.

CO2 output is pretty much tied to milage and in the case of Kyoto signing countries is calculated gm/100km .

Here is GM's response:


"So, California bureaucrats decided on a clever strategy that forces CO2 reductions, knowing the only way it can be accomplished is by huge increases in fuel economy for SUVs and light trucks. At today's prices, saving fuel sounds great - until inherent draconian side effects are factored, such as much higher sticker prices, reduced consumer choice and, most important, many more highway deaths and injuries because of the resulting smaller vehicles.

The intent? Force SUVs and other light trucks to be drastically downsized to meet the CO2 reduction requirement. The result? Smaller engines; less utility and towing capacity; higher prices for consumers and as history has shown, diminished occupant safety as vehicle size shrinks. But since there are no motor vehicles made in California, there are no immediate political or economic ramifications and consumer backlash would not be faced for a decade or so - - after it's too late. "

The intent? Force SUVs and other light trucks to be drastically downsized to meet the CO2 reduction requirement. The result? Smaller engines; less utility and towing capacity; higher prices for consumers and as history has shown, diminished occupant safety as vehicle size shrinks. But since there are no motor vehicles made in California, there are no immediate political or economic ramifications and consumer backlash would not be faced for a decade or so - - after it's too late. "

What is the ratio of cars to trucks in Canada? It is about 1 truck and one mini-van per household in Texas. Most the men drive BIG trucks. Women might drive a SUV - a BIG one. It is a matter of sizing. My husband cannot get into a car that is low to the ground, and it is uncomfortable for me too. I prefer a car where I can slide my butt over and plop down. And then, where I can alight without laying down and rolling out. It becomes more of an issue when you are very tall or older.

Uncle

I was just on the Queen Elizabeth II highway to Edmonton yesterday in my 7 year old Saturn. This highway is known for rampant speeding (ya, me too!). But obviously the price of gas isn't high enough, because RV's, SUV's, Semi's, etc. were all doing 75 MPH or higher (except for the odd slowpoke!). When the price gets high enough this behaviour should decrease along with seeing fewer gas guzzlers on the road.

UnclePercy, you should also know that about 50% of the pump price in Canada is due to federal/provincial taxes. As I understand it, in the U.S. you don't see this level of taxation on a gallon of gas. If you equalize the taxation, I believe the Canadian pricing is marginally favourable compared to the U.S.

Gas prices where I live here on Vancouver Island hit $1.089/litre yesterday and are currently $1.059. Pretty big jump from the $0.959/litre the other day. Glad I drive a 4-cylinder! :)