I have decided from this point forward buritto, biglyle, Nanuuk and booth44 are all terrorists and as a result I am going to detain then indefinatly in guantanamobay.

I am not going to provide any evidence, you will not have access to lawyers, you will not have any rights, I can tourture you or treat you anyway I see fit, I do not need to show if you are either guilty or inocent and you will fall outside of any and all legal jurisdictions.

Why? Because I said so? On whose authority? Mine! What can you do about it? Nothing!

Have your rights been violated? Of course not! You all agree this practice is not a violation of human rights. If we can treat other humans this way we have the right to do this to you. If you or anyone you know is ever wrongly accused of anything and convicted without trial you have waived your right to comment. If any other country decides to capture American citizens (or you, your friends or family) they also now have the right to treat them the same way. This is only fair. Do unto others.....

[QUOTE=TVJunkie]I am not going to provide any evidence, you will not have access to lawyers, you will not have any rights, I can tourture you or treat you anyway I see fit, I do not need to show if you are either guilty or inocent and you will fall outside of any and all legal jurisdictions. [QUOTE]

Cute, but there's a few problems with your reasoning.

1. The prisoners do not fall outside of any and all legal jurisdictions. Last year the US Supreme Court ordered that each and every detainee has the right to challenge their detention in the US federal court system. So far, about 150 of the roughly 520 have done so.

2. They all have the ability to access lawyers.

3. Nobody has died at Gitmo, and the most serious accusation of "torture" appears to be when a female US soldier pretended to smear menstral blood on the face of a detainee she was interrogating. Hardly the stuff of the old Soviet gulags.

Shame on Amnesty International for calling Guantanamo Bay the "gulag of our times." It's a slap in the face to the US military as well as the memory of the millions of people who were made slaves and died of exposure and starvation. What's next, comparing Abu Grahb to the Holocaust?

I'm just sad, that a country that I once admired is slowly becoming a new Soviet Union. Under this mask of a "war on terror", they are becoming one with the terrorists they are claiming to fight against.

You must have rewatched Michael Moore's propaganda film Farenheit 9/11 at least 30 times already to form a conclusion like that.

You must have rewatched Michael Moore's propaganda film Farenheit 9/11 at least 30 times already to form a conclusion like that.
No, only once. The most I liked the part when the congressmen were lining up to enlist their sons and daughters for Iraq.
At the same time, how often do you watch Fox News? Or the propaganda you watch is not propaganda, but news?

ATTENTION:

For all who wish to fight the "man" please donate your hard earned money to Amnesty International at the link I provided in an earlier post.

This is not hepling the people detained at Gitmo but your money surely will.

So how much has the DHC members given as of today?

ATTENTION:

For all who wish to fight the "man" please donate your hard earned money to Amnesty International at the link I provided in an earlier post.

This is not hepling the people detained at Gitmo but your money surely will.

So how much has the DHC members given as of today?

Fine. You've made your point that few if any of us that are against what's happening at Guantanamo are donating any money to Amnesty over this issue. So...do you think that somehow invalidates our outrage over what's happening there?

I'd like to know how much of _your_ hardearned money you've donated to fight the "War On Terror"....

Fine. You've made your point that few if any of us that are against what's happening at Guantanamo are donating any money to Amnesty over this issue. So...do you think that somehow invalidates our outrage over what's happening there?

I'd like to know how much of _your_ hardearned money you've donated to fight the "War On Terror"....

I don't think it invalidates your outrage it just proves too many people around here bitch and moan.

If the US ever sets up a fund for the "war on terror", I'll spend some bucks ;) Peace.

I don't think it invalidates your outrage it just proves too many people around here bitch and moan.

Unfortunately, some of us believe that we shouldn't _have_ to donate money to help prevent the US from committing human rights offences. We think that, once the issue has been brought into the open (which it has), they should just, you know, stop.

If for every issue we could just stop..then well, we'd stop.

And what happens if you find out later that one of these "innocent" people who you want let free walks into a mall in LosAngelas on the 24th of December with a bomb strapped to his back? Then what? Bitch and moan that the government should have done more?

I am sorry if a few human rights get trampled on, but if means a safer world for my family down the road, then I am all for it.

And what happens if you find out later that one of these "innocent" people who you want let free walks into a mall in LosAngelas on the 24th of December with a bomb strapped to his back? Then what? Bitch and moan that the government should have done more?


Who said anything about setting them free? I'm just talking about treating them like POW's. I also haven't claimed that they are all innocent. What I have been saying is that there are obviously several (and likely many more) who indeed are innocent--do a google search and you'll find enough cases--who shouldn't have been treated the way they were.

What's your opinion on racial profiling in the police force?

Edit: a couple of things that I forgot:
1) if people are set free, and turn out to be terrorists, then it means one of two things:
a) the US had no evidence they were terrorists--in this case I'll say that it's a shame, but not really preventable
b) the US had evidence, but the legal system set them free anyway--in this case I'll say that the legal system is broken and needs fixing
2) On your statement about not minding some abuse of human rights if it makes things "safer" for you and your family--what makes you think what they've done at Guantanamo have done or will do that?

I am sorry if a few human rights get trampled on, but if means a safer world for my family down the road, then I am all for it.
As long as they're not your rights, I assume. Its easy to say this as long as you are not on the other end. We used to round up Japanese people and intern them because it was for our safety.

As soon as anyone's rights are denied or violated, we should all be concerned cause one day it could be us. There's an old saying something like:
"When they came to take away the Jews, I did not raise my voice, because I was not a Jew. When they came to take away the Homosexuals, I did not protest, because I was not a Homosexual. When they came to take away the Gypsies and the Slavs, I said nothing, because I was neither a Slav nor a Gypsy. And when they came to take away the Christians, there was no one left to object."

That said, I think war is war and in such times, you do what you must to win. But we should be careful about how easily we set aside our morals and values for the sake of security. In 50 years, the US will be apologizing for their treatment of Iraqi prisoners, just like they apologized 40 years after WWII for their treatment of Japanese citizens and how Germany apologized to Jews for WWII and etc...

"What's your opinion on racial profiling in the police force?"

I say do whatever works. Racial profiling has gone on for years and it will go on for many more, anyone who thinks otherwise is only kidding themselves.
Do I care, not one bit.

One more thing. When I was younger I had really long hair and was definately profiled, not only by police but by the general public when enetering stores and so on. I got over it, and looking back I can see the point.

The Guantanamo Bay detainees only received their rights to a lawyer etc after a court challenge. They were detained for months before they even had this right. That in itself should be troubling.

Biglyle: The only problem is that you "got over" the hair thing - probably by cutting it (or maybe long hair became socially acceptable). There's no way that those imprisoned can change the color of their skin and no reasonable expectation that they can change what deity they believe in.

"What's your opinion on racial profiling in the police force?"

I say do whatever works.

But I guess the question is, does it work? I'm skeptical that profiling works in actually finding the guilty parties, either in police work or in what's been done in Guantanamo.

Whatever to all you Amnesty people. Yeah Fox news is shock TV. Big Deal.
Tell your friends the taliban and your brothers and sisters the al - Qaida just to stand there and fight. Stop throwing young kids at MY TROOPS ie the suicide bombers. You want to talk morals how is that moral! Yes, I am American and I am proud of it too. To those that are supporting the US thank you VERY much. To those of you that do not like what we are doing or HATE us for the war. I got two things to say to you...
1. Move to Afganistan/Iraq then you might get your head on straight.
2. f*** you! Now how is that for your bleeping ass.

My brothers, yes 3 of them, lost their lives trying to get the sons of a bitches that killed on 9/11 not only Americans but Canadians, Britians, French, Iraqis, Afganis, Indians, shall I go on!

If these people can kill at random and say that it is because the Kor'an told me to. Or we are infedels then. If their rights get trampled. GOOD. Oh yeah one of you said that they must have been doing something to get arrested. I so agree!

PROUD TO BE AMERICAN! AND PROUD OF MY CANADIAN HERITAGE!

Oh yeah one of you said that they must have been doing something to get arrested. I so agree!

PROUD TO BE AMERICAN! AND PROUD OF MY CANADIAN HERITAGE!

I don't know why some people constantly equate "Proud to be American" with "I support fully all actions/decisions of my government/military". But anyway, I'm not going to address most of your post because a lot of it was incoherent. But as for "they must have been doing something to get arrested"....try going a google search for "Camp Iguana". They had 13-year olds in there...how much of a risk do you really think these kids were? And remember, I'm not talking about risk to US soldiers--I'm talking about risks to US national security, which is presumably the reason why these people are being held in the manner they are in the first place.

... They had 13-year olds in there...how much of a risk do you really think these kids were?...
Well, let's be honest...a 13 year old pulls a trigger as well anyone. As I said before, war is war and you do what you need to win.

Ok, so you _arrest_ the 13 year old. But the incarceration at Guantanamo Bay goes beyond mere incarceration. As I understand it, the excuse for why the prisoners are there in the first place is because they are seen as a threat to US national security. How is a 13 year old in Afghanistan/Iraq with a rifle a threat to US national security?

2. f*** you! Now how is that for your bleeping ass.

That pretty much sums up your country current policy. If I were American I would be ashamed at this moment, not proud. Hope your empire won't end up like other ones.