Thanks 57. I guess my point is the more the material is compressed, the more degredation you will have. Degredation can be artifacts, macroblocking, etc. If a broadcaster for some reason chooses to compress to a rate lower then 19.4 mb/sec then there will be more degredation. I suspect a lot of the macroblocking comes from material that the broadcaster has chosen to "over compress"

Just a theory......

I'll look into it.

btw, did anyone see the Peter Cottontail movie on Sunday (5-7pm)? Any comments?

I watched specifically for this movie because you hinted about it a little earlier in the thread. A couple of comments.

Regarding picture quality.. it was a vast improvement over your opening night movie ie no major stuttering like before but there were times that panning wasn't totally smooth. You could see the same effect in the credit roll at the end that they wern't rolling smoothly but rather in what looked like a series of very small but discrete steps. You had to be close to see it and it may be a function of the STB processing on my end. I'm watching OTA on CH 20 from TO on a 34 widescreen Sony CRT.

However your 16:9 framing might still be an issue. If your source was 14:9 then you zoomed it to fit the width as you were doing earlier and chopped off the top and bottom of the picture that was shown on the SD network. You said that you stopped that practice in an earlier note and I watched Coronation St last night and it appeared as you predicted. The full 14:3 image was available with no picture information loss but black bars of different widths around the picture. Still much better then what was happening to that program earlier.

If Peter Cottentail was native 1:78/1:85 material then there is an issue with your callibration for that format. Its like you did your original set up's for 16:9 broadcasting using Cornation Street Tapes for calibration which are 14:9 ratio. Result is the native 16:9 pictures fills the full screen but appears somewhat zoomed. The horizontal picture information on Peter was virtually the same on the SD and the HD feeds. (That shouldn't be. 16:9 should have additional picture information not viewable on the other format. In addition the vertical framing was showing much less picture information than the SD channel.

I've been viewing all of the other available OTA digital HD networks (CBS, NBC, CBLFT etc.) and your the only one exhibiting this particular problem with HD (widescreen material. Last nights newsroom same thing. Filled screen for digital network but was apparent that picture information was missing vertically and same horzantal information as your SD network which is incorrect if source is 16:9. Have a look at the opening CBC logo splash at the start of the newsroom program that comes on just ahead of the splash for showcase. Again its fat side to side not round indicating streching is going on somewhere in your processing.

robcreaser, remember that you can't compare a letterbox image on a 4:3 (SD) channel (on a 16:9 TV) with a 16:9 image on a 16:9 TV. The letterbox image will show more information (but smaller) because there will be no "overscan" on that image. Typcialy overscan on a 16:9 TV will be about 5-6%, perhaps more on a CRT Direct View TV like yours.

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/3930/overscan.html

http://www.videoessentials.com/D_Theater_signals13.php

robcreaser, remember that you can't compare a letterbox image on a 4:3 (SD) channel (on a 16:9 TV) with a 16:9 image on a 16:9 TV. The letterbox image will show more information (but smaller) because there will be no "overscan" on that image. Typcialy overscan on a 16:9 TV will be about 5-6%, perhaps more on a CRT Direct View TV like yours.

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/3930/overscan.html

http://www.videoessentials.com/D_Theater_signals13.php

Agreed but you can compare a 4:3 SD showing 14:9 presentation of 16:9 source material (trying to show some of the extra horizontal information available with out making the black bars top and bottom too large and the remaining picture to small) with 16:9 HD of the same source.

Many broadcasters are choosing the SD 14:9 presentation of 16:9 source material to bridge the large base of legacy sets in the viewing population to the new aspect ratio.

What CBC (not Radio Canada) has also been doing is zooming 14:9 source material (Coronation St plus other UK sourced programs) to make it look like 16:9 on High Def sets (no black bars).

Earlier in this thread our CBC friend said that they would now route 14:9 native material via the 4:3 encoder. That has happened with good results.

Unfortunately it looks like this HD/Widescreen encoder path is still set to apply the same zoom they were applying to Coronation Street to ALL of the "widescreen" material it encounters even to native 16:9 sources that don't need it. Now that they stopped sending 14:9 in this path they shouldn't need the zoom/strech techniques they were applying trying to get 14:9 to fit 16:9.

It all depends on the their master source. If both networks are sharing one HD 16:9 master then both should be getting the same verticle picture information. 14:9 aspect ratio on 4:3 SD preserves about half of the extra horizontal information. 16:9 HD should have it all + the same verticle info.

I realize all CRT's have a fair amount (5%) of picture overscan with Factory settngs. Mine has been recalibrated with test patterns to around 2%.

I surfed past Corrie St tonight (around 7:50) and it had very narrow black bars above and below, with normal black bars to the sides....

Just got this email for Expressvu:

We have not received any further information regarding the addition of
CBC HD. At this time we know it will be added but do not have any
specific date when it will be added.

I surfed past Corrie St tonight (around 7:50) and it had very narrow black bars above and below, with normal black bars to the sides....

Me also and it looked ok. Much better then what was happening on the 16:9 encoder path were using.

At this time we know it will be added but do not have any
specific date when it will be added.

What the heck kinda vague non-answer answer is that???? Basically, they're giving themselves between now and the End of Time to add CBC-HD.

This thread is now 16+ pages long, with a few divergences off-topic here and there; clearly there is a demand among BEV subscribers for CBC-HD. Can you imagine how long this thread would be, and the extent of outrage being expressed, if BEV were denying us CBC-HD with its weekly HD broadcast of Hockey Night in Canada????

So much for must carry.

So much for must carry.

Has it been established that Must Carry rules apply to CBC-DT? I've tried searching the CRTC's website, but there is so much there relating to the CBC, it would take days to root out the specific answer.

While not a smoking gun I did find this previous post. I just wish I knew where the link was that they were refering to.

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9030

Good find jvillain. Now that I have a date, I can narrow my search of the CRTC website. I've sent numerous emails to BEV, questioning the continued absence of CBC-HD, but no replies. Given the March window that was quoted earlier seems ready to pass with no action from BEV, it may be time to take this to the regulatory level, and it's always nice to be able to quote the CRTC's own policies back to them...

There was also this from Broadcaster Magazine. They don't usually get their facts wrong when it comes to the broadcast industy.

The CBC's first digital transmitters are tested and ready to bring high definition television signals to the airwaves in Toronto and Montreal in early March. The CRTC's 'must carry' rules mean that cable and satellite providers serving the two cities will begin to carry the new HD services at the same time.

http://www.cbcwatch.ca/?q=node/view/960

Glad I could help. Go get em.

An earlier post by Mhyland indicates the carriers may have up to 90 days grace from the time it goes on the air to comply with carrying CBC-HD . Anyone know exactly what the CRTC regulations are in this case?

I'm told ExpressVu will begin carrying CBC HD and SRC HD today...

I'm told ExpressVu will begin carrying CBC HD and SRC HD today...
That's great news but I will have to see it to beleive it!

I just got off the phone with the funniest Bell customer service rep!
She told me they can't offer SRC and CBC HD right now because it's not possible with their Satellite technologie lol!
that was defenitly a bad investment of 15 minutes of my time!

By the way she seem to be verry sick of people complaning about not having CBC anSRC HD on the channel line up! has soon has I mention those channel I could feel the desparation in her voice!

Keep it up guys!

CBC HD is up on 802 on Bell Expressvu.

CBC HD is up on 802 on Bell Expressvu.
That's even funnyer now!
There is no comminucation between there own employee so imagine with their customer!

Thanks for the info Elite 09 :)

SRC HD is up on 860 on Bell Expressvu.

Well I hate to admit it but BEV came through with their promise of having CBC and SRC HD in march!

How is the PQ Elite 09?