1, 2. You have arbitrarily set analogue as 1, with DH (did you mean HD or DTH?) as 10, when these are not true reflections of what is out there. Some SD digital channels are different from others, depending on the bandwidth given to the various channels by the service provider - more watched and more expensive channels get more bandwidth. Also, analogue may not be the worst PQ, so you'd have to go into negative numbers for some of the poor SD Digital channels. See the following thread for more information on SD PQ:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18580

3. Heavy rain or snow can cause rain/snow fade. This can depend on your location, your dish, your dish placement on your house, etc. Do a search for "rain fade" or "snow fade" on this forum to see previous threads on the topic.

4. This is not the thread for this question. Please look at the various threads in the *C and BEV forums for discussion of service and quality. Based on my readings, BEV has more channels, however, they lack in service and PQ (a generalization based on my readings)

5. I note that you've asked questions about digital channels, however, not all digital channels are HD.


Please see the following thread, useful for newbies to the forum:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741

Thanks for the info 57. Yes, I understand that not all SD are the same. I was just setting an arbitrary level to compare.

I continue to search and find more info. Thanks for the link.

Yes, I'm specifically asking about digital, non-hd channels. I understand that digital is not always hd. Again, thanks for the info. It's much appreciated!

There pros and cons
Bell EXPRSVU-more channels, time shifting, great reception are the pros
Cons- when I went on vacation I put them on notice that I was going away. No problem until I discovered they had been billing my account for a return to service when I had not been notified nor had I received the service. After a big fight they agreed to reimburse me...that was over a year ago and they have NEVER reimbursed...I find this dishonesty to be despicable.

Shaw--Cons- acceptable signal but the number of available channels is really lacking. No time shifting and every time I try to watch a channel which was included in my basic subscription with Bell is an additional subscription fee. Shaw is the greedier of the two and quite a ripoff. They really need to rethink their program. I am seriously considering a switch back to Bell.
Pro(1 only)The one hook is the bundling of IT service but I can bundle IT with Telus and ADSL is actually acceptable as I have experienced them in the past.

i am a newbie to this forum but wanted to put in my two cents on this topic. i recently purchased a new tv (65 sharp aquos lcd 120hz, large picture so you can see more imperfections if there are any) and obviously wanted to get the best service provider.

please remember i am not professional writer or reviewer so please don't attack my spelling or layout. and also remeber this review is mostly based on high def programming.

my main concern in MY choice was HD quality, receiver functionality and of course price (for service and receivers). so i ordered both a shaw hd pvr and also bell's hd pvr. i purchased them both at appoximately the same time know ing that i would only be keeping one and returning the other (they both have a good return policy if returned/cancelled promptly).

so i purchase shaw's hd pvr first and view it for a few days first. very easy to purchase and install (pro):D. plugged it in and called to activate it and that was pretty much it (i already had shaw's analog service before). the receiver though (motorola's 3412 i believe) was absolutely horrible to use. i have had other satalite receivers in the past (dishnetwork's 501) and have to say that shaw's receiver and remote is the most user UN-friendly thing ever (con):(. hated everything about how the receivers functionality is. from searching for shows to setting up recordings, and even the chanel guide. the standard sd chanels are just ok, slightly better than watching it without a digital receiver. but then you get to shaw's high def chanels!! WOW!! really beautiful (note that i have never had high def until this day so i am really in shock). (PRO):D. there are no faults at all when watching real hd 1080i programming such as hockey on sportsnet pacific and so on. it is so crisp i can see fine hairs on peoples heads and fine wrinkles also. outlines of individuals are extremely sharp and the pictures are crisp and bite.i'm so amazed by the sports chanels and hdnet, it temporarily distracts me from the horrible functionality of shaw's receiver. from what people have told me i should be able to see any and all imperfections in picture because of my screen size (the bigger the screen the more visible the imperfections), but i really don't have anything to complain about.

ok, as for pricing for shaw's service and receiver. the dual tuner hd receiver is fairly expensive. regular price is now $499 from shaw, but i got it on sale for $430ish rite before christmas from futureshop (con). and shaw's service is not the greatest price either. their basic digital package worked out to be around $63 a month. they give you all the hd programming and movies and stuff for a month free but after that they charge you more for it (con). i'm not exactly sure of the costs for additional programming.

so, i "try" to enjoy shaw's hd programming for a few days before bell comes to install the dish (i say try because again, using their receiver and remote is just painfull to me. it just makes no sense as why motorola can't make a easy using receiver). anyways, a bell installer shows up and does a installation. i speak with him and discuss the pros and cons with shaw and bell and he swears by bell (of course). he insists bell has better hd and more hd channels since bell's signal is supposedly a "true" digital signal and shaw's is a analog signal that is converted to digital. so after a few hours of instalation (con) he finishes the installation and we turn on the tv to watch. because of his speach about bell's true digital signal (and hearing it from other people and friends) my mind is already believing bell would be better before i even watch anything. as i initially watch the first few hd programs i notice that the picture is not as outstanding as shaw's. so i have both receivers plugged into the same tv, both using monster m1000hd hdmi cables (supposedly one of the top hdmi cables out there for hd 1080p+ and 120hz). and i flash back and forth inputs to compare each servers on the same chanels. i do see some difference but since it is new to me and the fact that i want to believe that bell should have a better hd signal (since it is being sent directly to your house as a digital signal), i sign off on the install and decide to do some more exploring of chanels later on. just so you know the installer was a bit impressed as to how clear shaw's high def chanels were, but he had another job to do and we both did not have time to go through all the chanels and compare in more length.

over the next few days i view both shaw's and bell's hd programming and compare. as much as my mind told me that bell "should" be better, my eyes were telling me shaw was deffinately better. the easiest comparisons were when watching sports such as hockey and basketball. as i said before, shaw's picture is sharper, crisper, brighter and just plain and simply more clear. for some reason when wacthing sports on bell when the play in the game moves back and forth from end to end you will see the ice surface or court surface become pixelated or cloudy. it is very hard to explain. also following the puck in hockey is just clearer and less to no shadowing than with bell. i was really confused about this so i envited over 2 friends at seperate times to see and compare. they both agreed shaw was better. as did my girlfriend, so it wasn't just me seeing this. i was thinking it mite just be my location maybe or maybe something wrong at my house, so i go to another friends house that also has bell in a totally different area. he has a fairly high end 52" panasonic lcd tv and his picture is exactly the same as mine. and he has the exact same issues so i know it can't just be a isolated case.

during this time also we vancouverites got a big dumping of snow for several weeks and my bell signal would come in and out on hd chanels (con). so i called bell to come back and fix that. they set up a appt for about a week later (very unsatisfactory) which would be very inconvenient if i didn't also have shaw as a back up. the day came for the appt so another insataller comes. nice guy, he adjusts the dish so that i get a better signal for that one bird. i then invite him in to compare the differences between shaw and bell. i show him the differences i notice and he was completely surprised to see that i was rite. he tries to think of a reason for this but can not come up with one. remeber he was only viewing for maybe 10 mins, the more you watch the more you can pick it apart.

sorry to the ones still reading but i am almost done.

bell's programming fees are very good (pro) :D compared to shaw. it's approx $65 for the package i got which includes lots of chanels (including time shifting) and almost all the hd programs. so basically its almost the same price as shaw but you get way more chanels. BUT for all of you that are buying bell thinking that there are more hd programming you better think again. some of these chanels that they advertise as high def actually are broadcasting non-high def recorded shows so its like watching a amplified sd signal. and not as nice as a real high def show. not saying there never is real high def full screen shows, but most of them are upconverted sd shows in 4:3 format (with the black sidebars). i think you do get a few more hd chanels but as i found out it's a bit of a trick. maybe you get more pay per view movies or events but i don't know as i don't order those things.

as for the standard broadcasting chanels they all seem pretty similar to me. i "think" bell's sd mite be better though.

so there it is. they both have their pros and cons. even though i have ranted and raved about shaw's hd programming i decided to cancel shaw's service and return the receiver. i just couldn't at the time justify the price difference in service and receivers and i could not stand the un-userfriendly receiver. it's been 2-3 weeks since i cancelled shaw, and everyday that i watch hd programming on bell i regret it. i love my canucks hockey and i am now figuring a way to either change back to shaw or get both shaw and bell. i signed a 1 year contract with bell to get the receiver for $299 (now a con) hahaa, so i am stuck with bell for now.


anyways, THAT's IT!! take this info for what it is, or don't take it at all. just trying to help anybody else out there that was going through this same delema.

I have shaw digital, is it worth it to switch to full loaded with an hdpvr, i have 4 tvs, 1 connected with a digital terminal and the rest with a regular coax cable, i just bought a new hdtv, i want to use a hd pvr on it , should i switch to bell? whats the better deal?