: Official Rogers Digital vs Satellite thread
2007-09-28, 04:43 PM
Yes, the SA boxes can use a lot of interactive applications. illico (Videotron's digital service) uses SA boxes, and they have a lot of the interactive applications you described, which are accessed by pressing the A button. Rogers just does not want to implement anything like that I would guess.
2007-09-28, 07:58 PM
Surely VOD is an interactive service? I hadn't realised Bell had figured out who to do interactive. So they use the phone-line for the return? What's the lag time like when you fast-forward and rewind?
2007-09-28, 08:10 PM
I think you mis-understood my question. BEV PVRs is likes Rogers they stil don't havew VOD,
What I was re-fering to was BEV's receivers the 9200,6100.3200,3100,4100, I think 5200,5100 & 5900 are capibable of having interactive features as pklayingg video games,casino games, read horescopes,lottery numbers a few others things from a channel called Launch Pad 275 if I recall.
I was just wondering if Rogers SA receivers coould that. Apparently since Videotreon uses the same boxes and they have this feature, apparently Rogers for some reason has decide not to implement this on there service, which is to bad, some of the feature echostar has is pretty cool.
Bev and Dish ITv is based on the OpenTV middleware engine.
This allows them to buy off the shelf applications and create custom ones.
Checkout the web site: http://www.opentv.com/products/games.htm
It's not well known that the *C IPG is created as an OpenTV application and their users are expecting to see ITv applications shortly.
The system works by the STB tuning to an OpenTV portal channel that receives a small FTP download and then runs. Multiple games can be sent in the same stream in a carousal FTP download.
The only LAG is waiting for that applications code download to begin, generally less than 30 seconds.
Some CSR applications will use a telco return to enable channel ordering and bill payment, but most apps run in the box and use downlaoded data to operate.
I'm not familiar with the SA architecture to comment.
2007-09-30, 05:58 AM
I can't say I'm even interested in EV's iTV. Most of it seems pretty lame, sorta like 20 year old video games. If iTV is anything like The Weather Channel interactive channel, it's slow and awkward to use. I'd rather have VOD, but wait, EV will never have real VOD on satellite. OTOH, a 9200 PVR is sorta like free VOD, only later.
2007-09-30, 10:04 AM
VOD uses the interactive "engine" on the box to contol, to interface with the underlying VOD components of the cable network. BEV simply lacks any sort of VOD architecture, so cannot do VOD.
IOW, just becasue VOD is an interactive service, and Bell receivers are interactive capable, means Bell can use that particular sort of feature.
2007-09-30, 12:27 PM
I think you mis-understood my question. BEV PVRs is likes Rogers they stil don't havew VODThat would mean they are unlike Rogers then - as Rogers PVRs do have VOD.
I assume that if Videotron can do the other interactive stuff so can Rogers. There used to be interactive features on Rogers years ago linked to certain programming. But from the comments at the time (4-5 years ago?) it was creating more trouble than it was worth. It was all pretty lame - 1970's era technology, far less sophisticated than the interactive stuff that's been running on regular TV channels in the UK for 30 years or so.
I'm surprised Bell is so far behind on the VOD issue!
Satellite VOD is structured much different than on cable.
On cable, a thin client talks two way to the head end and controls a QAM video stream to your box with very reasonable latency.
On satellite, there is no real 2 way, short of a phone and then latency would be an issue as would the b/w required to send YOUR movie along with all the other participants.
So sat sends a bank of movies down hidden channels to a special partition on your hard drive and then they appear in your DVR List, but must be purchased to view.
They have built in expiry dates and are replenished on a standard VOD sliding window of content.
Since the content is now local to your machine, playback with trick modes are a simple matter.
A pseudo form of VOD and the playback client may or may not be part of an Itv application or it may be embedded.
2007-09-30, 07:10 PM
The issue with satellite VOD is that it consumes part of the hard drive capacity. I don't see it happening with receivers that have only 25-30 hours of HD and I won't purchase VOD that isn't HD. If EV takes away part of the hard drive to store VOD, I would tell them to get it off my drive. They promised 25 hours HD recording capacity. Reducing that without my express authorization would be a breach of promise.
2007-10-01, 09:39 PM
Trust me, the interactive features of the Bell receivers are nothing special.
2007-10-02, 09:25 AM
I'm still not sure why on satellite it wouldn't work if you use the telephone for simply the return signal; i.e. the controls. You could even use the local HD for simply storing the moving being ordered (in the similar manner to how it already records what you are watching).
Then most of the bandwidth would move over the satellite signal; from the ads I've seen there aren't any bandwidth issues with satellite.
And aren't Bell subscribers already required to have a phone line attached? If not, it would certainly go a long way to eliminating the piracy issues.
2007-10-03, 10:49 AM
Real two-way satellite VOD won't work for two reasons (latency aside).
1: The infrastructure for telephone call ins is not large enough to support many ongoing connections, plus subscribers would not want their phone line tied up. If they were to have a network enabled box that used ones home always on broadband connection, that would be doable.
2: There isn't enough room on satellite to support the VOD channels. Cable can do it by segmenting their plant into nodes. Satellite cannot, as they are at best regional spot beams.
In Canada they are just national. A satellite with enough spotbeams to effectively carry out a true VOD would be expensive, if not some time coming.
So for now, the only effective VOD like experience for satellite would be that which ARR describes, and TMK, DirecTV is doing, for SD content at least.
2007-10-03, 10:38 PM
You could even use the local HD for simply storing the moving being ordered (in the similar manner to how it already records what you are watching).
With satellite, that's called PPV. There is not enough bandwidth for real VOD. Real VOD may be possible with a combined satellite/IPTV receiver but EV is years away from rolling that out.
2007-10-04, 11:04 AM
2: There isn't enough room on satellite to support the VOD channels. Cable can do it by segmenting their plant into nodes. Satellite cannot, as they are at best regional spot beams.Ah, that's probably the crux of the issue. Interesting.
Isn't this a major long-term issue for the satellite companies in markets where they have to compete with Cable?
2007-12-18, 06:22 PM
I'm in Toronto, to start.
I have no idea where to post this, so be kind :) Currently, I have Rogers for my TV, phone and internet. I'm moving (in the same area) at the end of January and I'm considering making the move to Bell. It would just be for phone and internet, since my new apartment is facing North.
Last time I was considering this, Rogers had the upper hand in internet speed. Now, it seems to be about the same. I'll be doing your basic surfing, but also downloading movies to my 360 (once everything gets worked out). Anyone have an opion either way of what would be the best option? Stick with Rogers for everything, or split it up with Bell?
If Rogers has the services that you desire and you're happy, I see no need to split things up and lose the bundle discount you probably have with Rogers.
2007-12-18, 06:55 PM
I've had issues downloading movies on XBOX Marketplace, and have heard rumours that it's because of Rogers throttling encrypted traffic. That's why I was considering the switch.
Almost all service providers do some form of throttling on some sites. I seem to recall Bell doing something similar. See:
2007-12-19, 06:06 PM
Bell is heavily into encryption these days as well as capping. Plus, as bad as Rogers' customer service can be, Bell appears to be taking things to a new level of inadequacy these days. If you're reasonably happy with Rogers, you're best off sticking with them.
When I moved this summer I kept Rogers...and they gave me 2 months free everything. That was a $400.00 savings.