: Official Rogers Digital vs Satellite thread
2007-03-27, 03:23 PM
In the bluster from one poster this key fact might have been missed and it's an important distinction between Rogers and satellite (including Bell ExpressVu):
On Demand is a "satellite killer", if one exists; with hundreds of free titles and whole stations like NFL Network, Treehouse and MTV in both "linear" and On Demand versions, there's always stuff to watch ... [while] the On Demand versions of Food, HGTV and National Geographic haven't launched yet I'd expect they'll be on tap soon and in the meantime the regular versions of the channels ARE included in the VIP package.
These six services are Free On Demand -- that is, hundreds of shows available at the touch of your remote, when you want to watch them, at no pay per use fee. If you subscribe to VIP, you'll get these, in addition to the linear versions.
It's possible to do a very dumbed down version of "On Demand" using a customer's satellite PVR (Dish, I believe, is piloting this in the US). You partition half the customer's hard drive (leaving them 50% of the space to record their own stuff) and fill up the other half in advance streaming from the satellite. Then you give the customer the option to view what's there for a per use fee. Nice for the latest 5 or 10 movies but at the cost of losing half your recording time and paying to use the other half!
Cable On Demand is an entirely different animal. Right now I have the option of watching 10 HD movies On Demand including recent titles like The Illusionist or Snakes On A Plane. Or hundreds of other titles in SD.
My subscription to The Movie Network comes with two On Demand channels "free" which include the best of the five TMN and two Mpix channels -- dozens or perhaps hundreds of titles, including HBO series, which I can play back whenever I want -- no more "appointment tv".
Did mention I also get three HD channels from The Movie Network? That's 50% more than you can get from Bell satellite. But, hey, those are just the facts. :rolleyes:
2007-03-27, 08:22 PM
I agree that on demand programming is likely the futureof television, but I see no reason to be limited to my television provider for that service. I could just as easily purchase and download the content via my Internet Service from anyone. Why couldn't Blockbuster offer that?
i hate tv
2007-03-27, 08:36 PM
i heard that bell does offer on demand, with their vdsl service, however, i am not sure of this
too bad you can only get rogers, in certain areas, and not at all if you live in the country
too bad they are not available, COAST to COAST, like bell, one of only 2 companies, that offer 100% of their programming in a digital format
some other tv providers, use an ancient technology (analogue) the same technology that was used for your grandparents black and white tv so many years ago.......
bell is in the top 98 percentile when it comes to providing 100% digital programming, at a price that is usually less than you would pay you local cable company, if the even offer cable service where you live
2007-03-28, 11:02 AM
My analog will blow away anything on Bell compress vu, my digital looks great unlike Bells poor picture quality, so Bell's over compressed digital network that people pirate like crazy is nothing but cable on a stick with no on demand and with poor picture and sound, and they are making Star chioce, Rogers and any other provider in Canada lose millions over there poor security.
Analog is going away because of digital I agree, digital could be better than analog but when providers like Bell over compress there channels to fit in there limited bandwidth then the out of focus picture and crappy sound makes digital look bad.
I am comparing my big dish analog and I do know that Rogers analog is a bit fuzzy but still Bell's picture is pretty bad so again I would go with Cable because there digital SD looks better and there HD is way better than Bell, the nets look pretty much the same as ota.
Star choice SD is pretty good, some channels look great others are pretty bad, they also have a secure system like digital cable so it is fair competition, I would much rather support a company that cares enough to play fair and who will provide good service and secure there system so only people that pay can view, it is BS with Bell in the game, people will go with satellite because they say it's free thats why you see so many dishes all over the place.
So Bell goes down in the rain, Bell goes down once in a while when they make a weak attempt to cut the pirates, Bells picture is over compressed.
Rogers is the winner, look at the poll.
2007-03-28, 12:01 PM
What a stupid argument. Rogers vs Bell. I'm sure that both service providers offer conveniences to people who prefer the available features. I have had both. I've been a Rogers customer for 27 years with the exception of a few years ago when I went with Bell for a 2 year period. I found that I preferred Rogers and came back. As far as detectable PQ they are both similar just different. PQ can depend on more than just the provider. Quality of the set, calibration etc. Price was quite comparable. It is much easier to have a lot of sets hooked up in the house. One of my rooms doesn't even have a digital box, so I appreciate the analog channels. Though that will change one day. I have 2 HD sets and 3 non-HD sets. How many dishes would I need on my house for that? I am totally in love with On-demand. A PVR might be a little more flexible in some ways and both Rogers and Bell offer one, but due to my heavy schedule I don't want to be thinking about what I want to see and then scheduling the PVR to record this show or that one at a specified time. Basically I don't want a PVR. On-Demand works great for me. I look at what there is and choose it. It doesn't get any easier. Even easier that getting off my duff and putting a movie in the DVD Player or VCR.
As far as cutting up peoples driveways. This is the first I've ever heard of this and I doubt that this happenned or theres more to the story. No cable company would have the right to just start chopping in to your driveway as needed. I have, however seen some fairly sloppy temporary cable jobs though. But I"m sure that for every dumb thing that happens with Rogers you can find a dumb thing with Bell. Which makes this argument stupid and pointless.
It shouldn't be about which one is better because that is subjective to the individual considering one or the other. Find out which each provider offers and decide which is best for you.
2007-03-28, 12:38 PM
I agree with you Terry, though with digital it mostly comes down to the source and if the source feed is over compressed no matter what you do on your end will be pointless.
I am sure Rogers has some half ass techs that do poor job's just like Bell has crappy techs that don't even have a spectrum analyzer, and I have seen dishes come down in the wind from poor installs.
2007-03-28, 02:19 PM
i heard that bell does offer on demand, with their vdsl service, however, i am not sure of this
Sticking to the facts only ...
Bell's VDSL service does not offer On Demand.
Bell ExpressVu TV For Condos is an interesting development and has been in market in Toronto and Ottawa since summer 2004. At the time, Bell promised they would have HD, PVR and On Demand services by mid-2005. Those dates have been pushed out time and again; at the end of March 2007, they still don't deliver HD, PVR or On Demand.
(I recently spent an evening with a friend who has the service and there are a credible number of channels in SD in packaging very similar to the satellite product. The on screen guide has merits. But the picture is softer than digital cable due to extra compression; sit back far enough and it won't bother you. But on more recent model larger screens it is noticeable below expectations. From sampling Telus TV in Vancouver and Aliant TV in St. John's, I'd say its as good as Telus and better than Aliant. But that's subjective, not scientific.)
BETFC does offer a dozen or so (maybe more) PPV channels but nothing On Demand. As another poster indicates, On Demand is a revolutionary way to watch TV and adds tremendous value to a subscription. And to repeat: this product does NOT offer HD or PVR of any flavour.
The most recent word from Bell senior management (Michael Sabia and George Cope) was that they would only commit to "completing IPTV development" as a corporate objective in 2007. The technical limitations of the model Bell has chosen to implement -- bringing fibre to the neighbourhood and then running standard telephone copper wire to the home -- leaves them unable to deliver HD at this time.
A Bell subsidiary -- Bell Aliant -- is using a slightly different technology with even worse results in the Maritimes. They've had the service running in Halifax since, I think, 2003 and haven't managed to cause the local cable operator, Eastlink, more than a sneeze.
When Bell manages to deliver 2 HD signals (to run a PVR), and at least one SD channel and Internet over the same connection at the same time, then we can revisit if the product has a ghost of a chance moving to mainstream against a capable digital cable service like Rogers. I have said repeatedly here that if Bell can deliver as much or more HD to my apartment I am definitely interested in considering it.
And, no I am not a CSR at Rogers; consider me an enlightened industry watcher which is why I follow the developments -- technical, marketing and financial -- of most cablecos and telcos in Canada. I happen to be a Rogers subscriber as well and a satisfied one.
And just to bring this back to Rogers vs satellite ... neither Bell nore Star Choice offer as comprehensive a TV package as VIP for under $60/mth. Neither offer the breadth of multicultural programming (over 60 channels in languages other than English or French) which is completely relevent to the Ontario, and specifically Toronto market. Rogers offers not quite as many HD channels as Bell but considerably more than Star Choice; and Rogers has chosen channels like Showcase, National Geographic, MMore HD (the 3rd TMN HD channel), OMNI 1, OMNI 2, The Score HD rather than a few Bell eye-candy channels like Oasis and Treasure which few people watch.
All thre companies continue to improve their products; however On Demand in particular is something satellite cannot deliver and will give Rogers a long-term edge if it chooses to exploit it fully.
I stumbled on this thread and was very angry.
Flaming posts, condescending posts and a lot of rudeness. I have deleted a number of posts.
Any further rude posts will be deleted and members sanctioned.
Ex Agent EV
2007-03-28, 07:46 PM
In response to Sensual poet's post in P.8...
5 theme packs available at Bell???
1)News and learning 1
2)News and Learning 2
And for those who have the upgrade kit:
And for those who speak French:
16)Le monde en franšais
Each of those themes could be part of the Digital essential...we are far from the 5 themes you are mentionning.
Each channel included in the 2 themes, and variety 3 could be bought in piack and pay for 2.50$ each.
2007-03-29, 02:52 PM
Agent Express ... in post 118 I didn't say Bell has only 5 theme packs ... yes of course Bell has several -- 17 sounds right to me. Genre theme packs are a good idea since you can buy sports with sports and movies with movies. It was such a good idea, in fact, that Rogers rebuilt its own theme packs around genre mimicking the Bell model.
The five Bell theme packs I cited -- the "1s" -- contain the original analog specialty channels and collectively make up the channels in Rogers Ultimate Pack (or Tiers as they used to be called). Basically, they are all the channels (apart from locals) you get on "full analog".
VIP contains all those channels, plus about 20 more digital specialty channels -- like BBC Canada, Food Network, National Geographic -- and all the On Demand stuff I wrote about. It's all this extra packaging which drives way more value into $58.97 VIP at Rogers over Bell's $54 Digital Essentials or Sta Choice's Gold Pack at $55.99.
My post demonstrated that to get most of those extra specialty channels you'd have to buy at least another 4 theme packs -- adding a good $20 to your monthly bill -- and hence my suggestion Rogers VIP offers terrific value.
i hate tv
2007-03-30, 04:58 PM
i hope no one takes offence, but i still dont see how you would have to take an additional 4 theme packs?
the channels you have mentioned, could be easily chosen from the 5 theme packs that are included in the digital essentials package
digtial standard channels+
variety 2 for bbc canada
news and learning 2 for national geographic
lifestyle 1 for food network
(i am not mentioning the additional channels that are inclulded in these 3 theme packs , which number around 18.......)
that leaves 2 theme packs left to choose from, to add around another 20 digital channels
2007-03-30, 05:28 PM
First off, let me state that I've been a very satisfied BEV subscriber for over seven years - before that, I had Rogers - hated the service and just couldn't wait to get rid of it.
That said, I appreciate the valuable service you've offered by pointing out the value of the new Digital VIP. The launch of Rogers' promo campaign a few weeks back prompted me to do my own analysis - and for my viewing habits, my conclusion is similar to yours - Rogers today offers a better value for money proposition than BEV at the mid-price range for most people.
I'm hesitating to switch to Rogers for one key reason. I'm "addicted" to the 30 second skip ahead button on my BEV PVR - and I understand the Rogers PVR has no such function. Have others here made the switch from a BEV PVR to the Rogers PVR - how much do you miss that function?
2007-04-07, 08:25 AM
When I had Expressvu, I was using a dvd-recorder with a hdd for timeshifting in SD that had the 30 sec skip and I found it was very convenient.
I miss not having it on the SA8300HD that I got as part of the 'ditch the dish' winback campaign last month, but I'm getting better at utilising the FF scan. So to me it's not a deal-breaker.
When I compare the overall EVU offering of channels compared to Rogers, the addition of AMC, TCM, Showcase HD, Nat Geog HD, and the fact that I find I get a noticeably superior HD pq from the Detroit affiliates compared to what I was experiencing from Boston, I'm happier with the decision.
2007-04-08, 01:13 AM
the addition of AMC, TCM, Showcase HD, Nat Geog HD,
The refusal of EV to add these channels (plus MMOR HD), along with the recent, huge rate hikes by EV, have me considering Rogers as an option. Wake up EV?! Either provide value for money or lose customers. :eek:
2007-04-25, 10:10 PM
I have been getting quite disenchanted with Rogers lately, and have been looking into Bell.
I like a lot of what i see, but I must admit that am getting a little information overload, and I am hoping that I can get some help for the fine folks in this forum.
I have contacted Expressvu a couple of times, and I am sort of getting different pieces of information from each CSR.
Okay, here goes (I apologize in advance if my post gets a little long :) ). We have two TVs (one standard, one HD) on different floors. two things that we want in our TV experience are; the Movie stations (my wife needs her Entourage), and a PVR system (we have become very fond of it).
I notice two All-in-one packages that have a PVR receiver. Eventhough we have the HDTV, neither of us is sold on the HD programming, in has been quite a let down with Rogers in my opinion.
So on the surface, the Digital Extra would appear that have the programming that we would want and a price range that we would like, but I see that the 5900 PVR can only record the show that you are watching, which to me is useless really.
So is it only the the HD PVR that has the ability to record 2 shows at once? I see a reference to a 5220 model on the Bell website as well as a 5200 on the forums, are these the same, and are they available from Bell?
I mean I could take advantage of the 2 month free promotion and try out the HD package to see if there is a difference from Rogers, but then I am stuck having to pay for the HD receiver even if I choose the lower package after 2 months. I am also told that if choose the lower package, I can upgrade at any time to the higher one, but then there is a $100 fee to swap out the 5900 for the 9220. That seems a little steep!
Is there a difference in the quality of the HD programming with Expressvu? Does anyone know if the new receivers being lainched in July will include a non-HD PVR with better features than the 5900?
Well, I aplogize again for the length of my post. I hope that someone is able to offer any advice based on their BEV experience. :)
2007-04-25, 11:02 PM
5200 is a SD dual PVR. It retailed for same price as 9200 - 599.00CDN.
2007-04-25, 11:54 PM
I see a reference to a 5220 model on the Bell website as well as a 5200 on the forums, are these the same, and are they available from Bell?
It's my understanding that the 5200 is the receiver itself while the 5220 is the package containing both the receiver and the dish.
Ex Agent EV
2007-04-25, 11:56 PM
The 2 months free promo is only offered if you sign a 2 years contract...
Since you will have all channels during the first 2 months this will give time to figure the HD quality on BEV. Also it will give you time to figure out what channels you really like or not.
If you want to take the Movie East that I suggest that you take 6 theme packs instead of the 5 that you will get in the Digital Extra. Your movies will then become 16$ instead of 19$. Digital standard (base) + Movies East (or Central) + 6 themes is 72$
If you decide you want the HD channels add another 10$
You post talks about both 5900 and 9200... The 9200 will provide you HD and is a dual tuner, so with only that receiver you will have your 2 TV's. If you take a 5900 you will have to add another receiver for the second TV. 9200 is in stop sales and is now rented for 20$/month. You might be able to find it for purchase in some stores at 599$. 5900 is rented 10$/month, and you can purchase at 299$
We will not swap the receiver whether you have purchase it or rent it. Once we installed and activated the receiver if you are renting you contract begins. If you decide to change the receiver (even to upgrade to a more expensive model) you will have a penalty for breaking a rental contract (unless it was our mistake, we installed the wrong model and you realised it after). If you bought the receiver and want to upgrade it Bell could buy back the receiver, but you will only get 100$ for the 5900 I belive. The other 200$ are lost.
If you go for rental BEV will charge you a 50$ activation fee if you go 5900 and 100$ if you go 9200 on your Bell Canada bill or on your credit card. You have to pay that charge to either Bell or the credit card provider and BEV will credit that charge on your first bill.
5200 are no longer sold, they are discontinued model.
5900 will only let you record the show that you are watching
9200 will let you record the show you are watching, but you can record one show on both TV.
You can watch a recorded show while recording another one for all PVR's
2007-04-26, 12:01 AM
The 5200 dual tuner SD PVR was discontinued by Bell ExpressVu about 15 months ago. You are right: the 5900 is an SD PVR and, as a single tuner unit, limited in use. However, the 9200 dual tuner HD will give you more recording space and HD, if you decide you want HD later. There is no rule saying you can't hook it up to an SD set. And in the meantime you'd get CBC, SRC and two feeds of CTV in HD.
You could "build your own" Digital Extra and swap the SD single tuner PVR for an HD dual tuner PVR -- for, I believe, an extra $10/mth. Don't forget to get an SD receiver for your second TV (adds $3/mth) because, while the dual tuner PVR can run a second TV, it's awkward if what you really wanted in the first place was a dual tuner PVR.
You will lose the On Demand portion of TMN and MPix, however and, if you change your mind about HD, the third TMN HD movie channel, MMore HD; Bell does not offer On Demand or this third HD channel. Multiple episodes of Entourage, like The Sopranos, are available at no extra charge on TMN On Demand in the HBO Titles folder. If you still have Rogers YMN, check out channel 308 and 309. The first three episodes of The Sopranos season 6B and first three episodes of Entourage season 3B are currently available. (All 10 episodes of Rome season 2 are also currently available.) They are not On Demand in HD but then you said that wasn't so important.
If you like movies also keep in mind Bell does not carry Turner Classic Movies or American Movie Classics. The Humphrey Bogart classic High Sierra is playing right now, always commercial free. There is, actually, a Bogart festival on tonight with Angels With Dirty Faces and Petrified Forest coming up next. You could grab those on your PVR for later viewing. Those are just 2 of the close to 225 channels you get in Rogers VIP for under $60 -- and stuff like On Demand services from Food Network, HGTV and National Geographic aren't duplicated by Bell.
You could certainly try the 2 month free offer; it does come with a 2 year contract and a $200 early termination fee if you change your mind. If you go with the 9200 there is a $100 upfront fee for the HD contract kit; you do get that refunded on your first bill if you get installed within 60 days.
A top Bell official categorically denied any new HD receivers will be launched in 2007 by Bell in a public statement here about a week ago.
2007-09-28, 03:28 PM
Does anyone know if Rogers SA receivers are capibable doing interaxtive features like those from BEV?
When I had BEV their iTV capibable receivers could do some pretty interesting stuff like play video games, casino games, read horescopes,weather and such. They also had iTV chabbels during speacial events(usally sports)that had features that you could interacte with the channel.
I know at one time Rogers had "WinK' not sure what ever became of that, buit does anyone know if Rogers SA receivers are capibable doing anything like that?
Thats one feature I miss.