Twilight Cowboy,

HDTV owners are very sensitive in appreciating HD PQ. If SC service provided a great PQ enhancement, they would get the bulk of the business from HDTV owners.

For a time, satellite providers were saying that their HD picture was much better than from a cable provider. They are not saying that any longer because it is not true.

In addition to my desire to get a DVR, I left BEV to come back to Videotron because the satellite signal was lost too often for my liking because of passing climatic conditions. Once I went up to the dish to melt down the ice on the dish in front of the dual transponders. I used a hair dryer!

All HD signals in Rogers Nfld come from Cancom - Anik F2 ku

SC stands for Star Choice, another type of satellite system you can get - like ExpressVu. There are pro's and cons for all three - and a lot of threads that compare them you can search on.

Yes you can switch your phone number over to rogers land line, you can even add it to your bundle.

In terms of who has better service, I look at costs and service.
First off, customer service is way better in terms of getting tech support, in some cases with bell you have to pay for tech support.

Also the bundling with rogers is way better, you can bundle all 4 services :
cable, landline, internet, cell phone , which saves a lot in total household costs.

Another thing i noticed, when i was gonna subscribe to bell at first (cuz i had the card that would give all the free channels and it ended) I went on there website and its not clear, you can tell theres some confusion, on the Rogers website its so much more easy to understand the costs and every thing.

Plus, Rogers let me trade in my satellite and gave me a free HD PVR plus 2 months free service + 4 outlets in my home.

I also read that (this is just a rumor), Bell and other sat companies didnt do much about the rigged smart cards to get free channells since there strategy was to get thousands of customers to switch over to sat to get the free channels and they presumed that by doing this, after a while, they would finally stop this illigal hacking and thought bell customers would remain with bell (smart strategy but crooked).

Overall, hd is way better at Rogers, plus i read that the On demand service will be upgraded soon (i.e Playboy on demand, bio on demand, speed channel on demand, ect... all the digital networks will go on demand like in the states (i.e Timewarner cable).

From what I know Satellite is unable to get on-demand and their contract bundling sucks (major early cancel fee's).

I do not understand why people continue to put up with Rogers and do not take the time to really check out their options. The simple comparison is satellite is cheaper, more flexibility with programming and more features.
If you don't know why you haven't read the fine print but feel free to post reply and I will give the details.
Not true at all. With Rogers for $89.95 a month you get everything including timeshifting except adult programming (well, you do have explicit adult programming on TMN every night and the Internet, especially usenet, is the best place for porn :D ). This price even includes Euronews and DW, both of which cost extra on BEV. If you bundle it with Internet or wireless service from Rogers you get an additional 15% off.

When I was with BEV I paid $72 a month for programming, and that was with bundling, and yet I had about a dozen channels missing. If I were to add these channels plus DW and Euronews, I would have reached well over $100 a month. Rogers also has channels that BEV doesn't carry or plan to carry such as the Military Channel, MSNBC, Bloomberg, all of them come with the $89 a month package. Rogers also gives you TMN on demand that BEV doesn't even have. In fact, BEV now charge more a month than Rogers for TMN and yet it doesn't even offer TMN on demand.

On the technical side, Rogers is cheaper and more reliable. I don't have to worry about rainfade and Rogers support has been very good. Every time I had some problems with the equipment or the signal the service appointment was always the next business day and usually resolved the issue. Try scheduling a service appointment with BEV if you really want to laugh. When I first signed up to BEV I had to wait 2 weeks for an installation appointment. When I called Rogers and told them I want to switch from BEV they were here the next day.

Look, I'm not saying Rogers or BEV are perfect. I used both services and I admit that Rogers is much better than BEV. Rogers is now also leading the way on international programming.

I have Rogers - HDTV box to plasma & digital cable box to a small LCD TV.
I must say, I hate what Rogers has done to its lineup - I now have to scroll through blocks of 20 channels all showing the same shows to see what's on in the digital channels.
Questions:
1) Is the organization of the channels better with BEV?
2) What about audio quality - is there a difference between satellite & cable for audio?
3) Picture quality in Ottawa likely to be the same?

I watch more documentary shows. No sports really. Liked the idea of timeshifting of shows but it's not been as useful with Rogers as I thought it would be! Hoped I could watch 10pm Bravo shows at 8pm but that doesn't seem possible...
Any comments?
Thanks

1) Is the organization of the channels better with BEV?

Liked the idea of timeshifting of shows but it's not been as useful with Rogers as I thought it would be! Hoped I could watch 10pm Bravo shows at 8pm but that doesn't seem possible...
I have Rogers digital as well and I just spent two weeks at a cottage using BEV. I don't find BEV's layout any better or worse than Rogers but I do prefer the Rogers onscreen guide, at least you can still see the channel while in the guide. Rogers gives prime spots to Rogers channels, BEV gives the prime spot to BGM channels - surprise, surprise. Timeshifting would be the same under the two systems, particularly for Canadian specialty channels which have, at best, an east and west feed that are 3 hours apart.

Timeshifting would be the same under the two systems, particularly for Canadian specialty channels which have, at best, an east and west feed that are 3 hours apart.

The ONLY advantage I found with B was a time-shifted feed for every time zone in Canada, including the 1/2 zone in Labrador. B's guide only went 3 days, pretty lame when they advertise a program on Tuesday for Sunday that you may want to PVR. You forget about it by Thursday and bye-bye goes the show you wanted to watch. The craziest thing B every pulled off, in my opinion, is the single-tuner PVR. How usless is that, might as well just VHS. Great, record something well at work/school, but record one channel and watch another at 8:00pm, heck no!

Clearly, my favourite lies with Rogers. I have used both services and have been blown away as to how much better Rogers truely is. If people are wondering, I am running an 8300HD PVR to a Toshiba DLP 52HMX84 through HDMI, with 5.1 set-up through Optical. My only complaint about all providers is the lack of true 5.1 content available. Anyways, time will bring that. Now on to why Rogers kicks the pants off B. Rogers has superior Customer Service, and I am not basing it on one or two calls. Every call I have made to Rogers about services issues has been responded to quickly and very professionally. B on the other hand, I had about 2 calls total that went well. Could be luck of the CSR, but after the amount of calls I had to make to B, 2 is a very low number compared to the poor CSR I had to deal with. Next, no exorbitant early contract cancellation fees, 1st year of 2 year contract with B cost $200 if you own a single-tuner PVR...er...single tuner paper-wieght. Don't even care to remember the model number. Just want to say it like it is, for anyone commenting on the above dollar figure, that is what I got charged hopefully you did not. (If you did please don't tell me, that will just enrage my dislike for B even more.) Rogers will simply make you pay your savings from an bundled packages back if you cancel service. i.e. you save $70 over 3 months of your 'contract' they make you pay $70 to cancel, not $200. B truely holds a contract with you, Roger's is but isn't a contract as they never charge you more then it would if you didn't bundle your services. B claims they are trying to make back the cost of the PVR I bought, yes not rented, bought.

I won't comment on PQ as it seems to vary depending on your connections, signal strength for Sat custy's, house cable lines for cable custy's, and really our eyes. Everyone will have their own opinions on PQ and HD channel choices as we all watch different types of programming. Basically, for me, it comes down to the shell of services that Roger's provides over B, that which is FAR superior.

Quickly, I also want to comment on my personal experience with B's Internet service. This won't happen anymore as the problem has been dealt with, however, when they teamed with MSN, I got in just as the system were been merged, for the lack of a better word, and was left without an e-mail service for more then a month as my new password, change from the temp. they give you, was not accepted by M$ system. Yeah, took more then a month to fix. I ended up having to call to find out it was working again, that's when I dumped them faster them you could imagine, costing $200+. Rogers was at my place 3 days, setting me back up for Digital Cable and Internet, with the FOR LIFE zero cost rental of the 8300HD and any subsequent upgrades made available.

Lastly, COME ON NUMBER PORTABILITY! Can you say bye-bye to me B?!

I had Digital Cable in Ottawa for almost two years until end of 2003. It was almost $90 per month for our channel package and the picture quality was often a disgrace (overly compressed digital SD channels). Came back to Bell ExpressVu in early 2004 and the picture quality is much better (SD channels, same 53" TV) and get more channels for much less money (around $60).

YMMV.

I had pretty much the same experience as Jeffy. Rogers had the worse HD receiver, the highest cost, the worst digital channel lineup and came in second for HD channel reliability. The only place where Rogers was a clear winner was with TMN picture quality. That was two years ago so things may have changed by now. EV has made significant improvements since then.

EV has recently boosted prices drastically so new customers may not see any price advantage. I still get a brice break on my grandfathered package. With the introduction of the 9200 PVR, EV has made a significant improvement in their equipment offering as well as picture quality on HD and SD channels.

I doubt I will go back to Rogers. London pioneered cable and was once treated as an important market due to its high penetration. Now that Rogers has moved its operations to Toronto it treats London as a secondary market to Toronto, which it is not, and Rogers Cable service here has become second rate here. EV's service is not good either but at least I can service my own equipment. With Rogers I had to wait, sometimes for weeks or months, while various techs tracked down line problems.

Update from me.

I switched from Bell to Rogers for several reasons. HD-PVR wasn't available on Bell and the poor quality of Bell Receivers, equipment and service.

I find the SD quality slightly better with Bell but the HD is a wash for me.

The electronic program guide and PVR features are much better with Bell and lately that has been a major irritant for me.

I like VOD from Rogers and if they start showing WS and HD programming on VOD, I think it will really give Rogers a giant leg up.

At this point, its a toss-up for me with Rogers having a slight edge.

Hugh, I agree 100%. I have been tossing and turning over my options right now. I was with Bell but left years ago for the lack of quality equipment, PVR, and customer service. Since being with Rogers I have been very happy with my HD-PVR, quality of HD channels available(all things considered!) and the no-simsubbing on HD channels!

However, things are starting to irritate me as well:

1. SA8000 series PVR's still have not been corrected on major issues (channel kick-out, etc.), yet the update has been out in the US.
2. No WB network station available without subbing to highest movie package. The WB network is now considered a major network with great original programming.
2b. No WB HD channel available. Especially with Smallville no longer avilable in Canada in HD.

Bell has none of these issues. Of course they have there own but most have gone away with the 9200! (Still no definitive answer on who has the best HD PQ as some say Bell does alot of compression and use only 720p) So continue paying an additional $30/month just so my family has the WB on Rogers or switch and get the WB in HD? I love Rogers but they give me no answers...

Like I said..tossing and turning.

No WB network station available without subbing to highest movie package. The WB network is now considered a major network with great original programming.

Rogers added WNYO to its channel lineup awhile ago. This channel is a WB network affiliate from Buffalo. It's located on channel 167 and is available without having to subscribe to the highest movie package.

"[Bell ExpressVu] has recently boosted prices drastically..."

For most people with reasonable packages (at least $45), the recent increase was +$2/month (not drastic). And they will now get a magazine (no matter if they want it or not).

The recent increase is only drastic for those that strive to keep the monthly charge less than $40. They're certainly being squeezed to move up market.

Bell would be smart to offer a $29/month thrifty, tightwad, cheap b*stard, channel package for those that watch every penny.

I am also on the fence. I have been with SC for a few years now, but thinking of switching due to their lack of HD, and the poor reviews on the 530 PVR. Along with waiting to see what HD they would add, I have been waiting for them to get the 530 working better before investing in it. Though people seem to think its getting better, it also sounds like there is still a lot to fix.

However, here is an example of why I am not sure if its right to leave them. I needed a dish reallignment last week, and SC got a guy out to fix my dish in 1 day (no charge), and SC gave me 2 free PPV movies for my inconvenience, which wasn't SC's fault in the first place. I don't care too much about the $10 PPV credit, but a gesture like that goes a long way for me when it comes to deciding who I should deal with. Can't see BEV doing that in this life time.

If they don't add TSN when they add their new HD channels next month, that might push me over the edge though. I am leaning towards Rogers, but my biggest concern with them is that for the most part, people seem to think their digital SD is worse than satellite. For the time being, most of my viewing would still be SD, and SD PQ is why I chose SC in the first place. Since I'm in Ontario, I can get 100% digital. Any opinions on how much difference running RG6 inside my house would help?

How do 9200 owners watch SD? I have heard that S Video is the best for SD on an HDTV, but i heard the 9200 doesn't have S Video.

How do 9200 owners watch SD? I have heard that S Video is the best for SD on an HDTV, but i heard the 9200 doesn't have S Video.

I have an "old style" HD CRT rear projecter TV , that thankfully has a DVI port. I use the supplied "HDMI-DVI" cable that was in the 9200 box to feed my TV and watch both SD and HD over DVI. I used to use my S-Video input when I had a Expressvu 3100 and I do not notice a drop in SD PQ at all..in fact, I would argue it's improved just a tad.

If you do not have a HDMI or DVI input on your HD TV, you can still use component cables (and they come included in the box!).

For more information about SD quality on HD sets...take a look at this FAQ on the forum :

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18580

For most people with reasonable packages (at least $45), the recent increase was +$2/month (not drastic).
For the most recent price this is true. Adding up all the price increases during 2005 is drastic. If I lost my discontinued, $70, grandfathered package, I would be facing a $20/mo increase to obtain a similar package that new customers get.

I was with Bell but left years ago for the lack of quality equipment
I found that Rogers equipment was just as bad. Rogers never gave me a decent digital receiver. The boxes were made of heavier gauge steel but the stuff inside was just as unreliable. The only really good Canadian digital receivers out there for a number of years were the 401 from *C and the EV 6000 if you wanted HD.

I find the SD quality slightly better with Bell but the HD is a wash for me.
The SD picture quality has improved somewhat with EV, especially with the 9200. Many of Rogers SD channels are simply recoded satellite signals or poorly encoded analog signals so it it no wonder their digital service is marginal. EV uses HD signals transcoded to 720p for some HD channels. This doesn't bother me as I use a smaller 720p set but it does bother some people with large 1080i sets.

Rogers added WNYO to its channel lineup awhile ago. This channel is a WB network affiliate from Buffalo. It's located on channel 167 and is available without having to subscribe to the highest movie package.

Only available in Toronto. I am 20 minutes north..and although am fairly close..I am apart of the old Shaw network that Rogers took over years ago, so I get lumped in with Barrie's channel line-up even though it's 45 minutes north! Drives me crazy..no WB, Toronto1, etc.

Don't get me started on this...haha

Hi,
Just about to take the plunge from LOOK TV to an HD Satellite/Cable Provider. So, my question is:
For moderately priced programming (around $50-60 per month), which provider gives you the most in terms of specialty channels and HD programming?
Thanks,
Ezegoing

Ezegoing

Where are you located? This has a BIG impact on how people are going to answer your question.

You can make your location part of your profile so it is always shown.

Otherwise, the vote for overall best HD service provided goes to Rogers then BEV.

The most comical thing so far with Rogers is that I can get the West Coast HD feeds for $1.99 but they charge more than twice that for the SD West Coast feeds. Guess which ones I have :):):)