The Firmware that does much of what you request is available, only not from Rogers as yet. You know this, yet you still harp on the shortcomings of the device itself.

Also some of the issues you mention result not from a problem with the hardware, but rather with the TV Guide Canada information.

In the two years that I've been using the the SA HD PVRs, I have probably "missed" one or two recordings because I know the limitations of the device.

Yes, it can't do what TiVo does, but TiVo also can't do what it does.

I don't "bash" your machine on various TiVo threads because it can't record HD, so why not stop bashing the SA DVRs because of their limitations.

Bashing someone's equipment does nothing to help that person out.

57 ... bash away ... yes, the TiVo can't record HD!!! Bash, bash bash. I have no problem with that. It's true! If you want a PVR that records HD in Canada - TIVO SUCKS!!! I'll shout that from the roof-tops - because its true. TiVo can't do it.

Perhpas I need to be more precise. The SFA8300 as implemented by Rogers (henceforth referred to as the SFA PVR) sucks!!! It doesn't do me, or the thousands of others using this thing, any good to know that Comcast implemented a Sara upgrade last year that solves a lot of the problems. Those problems are not solved here, Rogers has not given any useful guidance on when they will be solved, and it could be months or years before they do, if they ever do.

And, once solved, this box will still pale in comparison to TiVo but for TiVo's inability to record HD based on the Canadian regulatory environment.

To be clear, I'm not just bashing the other users equipment ... I'm bashing my own equipment. I too have and use the SFA PVR. If I didn'nt HAVE to use it, I wouldn't frequent this forum. I have no interest in bashing another users choice of equipment. They didn't choose it, just like I didn't choose it. It was forced on us as the ONLY way to record HD through the Rogers cable plant.

My point here is that the Rogers implementation sucks! It's a known fact. I want other users of this forum to know that if they want/need a PVR with reliability they'll need a TiVo as a backup - period!!

You have had success with your SFA PVR because you've spent literally hundreds, if not thousands of hours studying it, figuring out kludges and work arounds for its problems. The average person is NEVER going to have the ability to use their SFA PVR as you do. It's like when automobiles first came out, you had to be part mechanic to use it successfully. That shouldn't be the case for a PVR users. But, with this SFA PVR, the average user needs to be very technically minded and spend an enormous amount of time to be able to have as much success with it as you have.

I'm not angry at you or the board. I'm angry at the cable monopoly structure in Canada and the CRTC doing absolutely NOTHING to change the industry to allow for competitive devices that can be used on cable plants. YOu want an HD PVR, you are stuck with whatever piece of crap yoru cable company shoves at you. The device is not consumer centric and does not solve consumer problems. SFA and Motorola have solved the cablecompany's problems (getting the cheapest device out the door). We consumers suffer as a result of the regulatory environement. And the SFA PVR is a prime example of this.

While the U.S. has not yet fully solved this problem either, they are at least years ahead of Canada on this front.

In the meantime we are stuck with this box if we want HD recorded.

...Dale

Here's the thread on the STB showing pros, cons, opinions. Interesting that you didn't participate.

http://digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40820

Dajad, this is multiple times now that you've complained about the 8300HD.

You've made your point so lets let it go.

I honestly have a problem with Rogers not upgrading their firmware and wonder if it is strictly an economic decision on their part. As long as small or large(if you perceive them to be) issues exist with the 8300HD then it reduces the number of units sold instead of rented from Rogers. That hurts their bottom line and motivates them to maintain the status quo.
I picked up my first 8300hd PVR two weeks ago(renting from Rogers) and I casually mentioned to the Rogers employee that I was thinking of purchasing it instead of renting. Immediately, he said the unit has problems and not to buy it!

Something be fishy here.

Later,
Craig

I picked up my first 8300hd PVR two weeks ago(renting from Rogers) and I casually mentioned to the Rogers employee that I was thinking of purchasing it instead of renting. Immediately, he said the unit has problems and not to buy it!

Something be fishy here.Having an option to rent or buy is great, and seems only available in Canada, and not the US. I chose the buy option 18 months ago, and based on the deal at that time it only needs to lasts another 6 months to break even. After that I am saving money. The current selling price puts payback closer to 3 years.

The box has been on the market for a while, so it is "old" technology. Newer models could be available within 3 years and you may not want to keep it longer than that. However, if the poor track record of software upgrades by Rogers is any indication, this model could be around for a long time.

As far as problems are concerned, you will have to take your chances and hope for no failures after the warranty period. Alternatively, you can purchase an extended warranty. Operational weaknesses with the box are no different if you rent or purchase. Finally, you can completely walk away from a rental unit, but purchase means you are committed as there is virtually no second hand market for it.

I have had the 8300 pvr for a year to the date.At first they pushed me to rent it i said no i want to buy it.After 10 mins of going back and forth of them saying there are issues etc i was to my word and i wanted to buy it.I have not had one issue at all.

If anyone knows why the company that was virtually the first in North America to put the SA HD boxes in the hands of its customers is the last to do firmware upgrades, please enlighten us.

I find it utterly stupid of Rogers to take this approach to customer support. I agree with the Tivo people here. As soon as Tivo comes out with HD recording capability, Rogers will have a pile of useless pvrs on its hands, including mine.

This, of course, begs the question why Tivo does not come out with an HD pvr faster and kill the competition while it still can. Once Rogers updates the firmware and it works properly, not too many people will drop the SA box for an HD Tivo unit.

It would be nice if Rogers would get at least one of its services working properly, before they start to dabble in phones and such and have nothing working as expected.

Very few will switch over to tivo.With tivo you have to pay to use there services.

This, of course, begs the question why Tivo does not come out with an HD pvr faster and kill the competition while it still can. Once Rogers updates the firmware and it works properly, not too many people will drop the SA box for an HD Tivo unit.


TiVo cannot bring out an HD PVR in Canada because the cable comapnies all use priprietary means to encode/compress/encrypt their digital signals. The U.S. has a legal mandate for all cable companies to build to a common standard - the cablecard. TiVo IS about to release a dual-tuning HD capable PVR that will work with all major cable companies in the U.S. Because Canada does not have the same legal system, TiVo can't possibly build an HD machine for this market even if it wanted too. It simply does not have a means of decriptying the proprietyar digital signals that each cable company uses.

So, unless we all call our MPs and get them moving on this (unlikely) we are stuck with proprietary HD boxes like this forever. Well, until Internet-based TV/movies on demand start to do their ultimate end-runsa round cable companies. But, don't expect that for an other decade or more - or ever, if the cable companies are permitted to shape their traffic as they do now and net neutrality does not become law in Canada or the U.S.

If you are interested in this issue, I cover it, and lots more on my iMedia law page:

www.DaleDietrich.com/imedia

...Dale

Dajad, this is multiple times now that you've complained about the 8300HD.

You've made your point so lets let it go.

Hugh, let's make sure you understand what happened here. I did NOT repost to this thread. I presume 57 as the moderator (well, maybe it was you as administrator) cut and pasted my comments from this thread:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?p=387599&posted=1#post387599

into this old one starting at post #9 in this thread. I did not rasie this old topic again in this thread.

New guy wondered why his show stopped recording mid-stream. As a new-guy, I wanted him to understand that this is NOT novel, and is indeed VERY common with this box.

I have no desire to troal this board for the purpose of bashing this box.

The ONE reason I come here every couple weeks is to see if there is any news on the software upgrade ... period. If someone asks a question I can think I can help with I post an answer.

If someone truly is a "new-guy" to this box, they might not yet realize that programs blowing up mid-recording is a common fact of this product. PERIOD.

That's all I was doing ... then others chimbed in and I responded.

Moving all of those comments out of their original thread into this thread making it look like I'm just arguing for the sake of it really wasn't fair in my opinion. It makes it seem like I dredged up an old thread and just started ranting again for no particular reason.

FOR THE RECORD: I am enormously greatful for 57's presence on this board and all the insight he has brought to this product. Without his help, this product would have been virtually impossible to use. So, thank you 57. I'm sorry if I am being perceived as ranting against you. I am not. You've been wonderful here.

...Dale

I bought an 8300 for the old boy from Future Shop yesterday. At the time the dude asked if i wanted the extended warrenty, i said no and have an option to purchase one with in 30 days.

The unit will be unused during the winter months...not sure if this makes any difference.

Is it worth getting the extended warranty? If it was for myself i would not care, but it's a fathers day gift for my dad and now i'm having second thoughts about it.

What's the cost of the EW? If it's not too much and if it's for a long time, it COULD be worth it on this type of equipment.

On most equipment I recommend against it - See the Digital Home FAQ on "Extended Warranties" (under Help).

I would.
Any technology that is relatively new or questionable is when I look to buy an EW. I have a 55" Sony LCD RP and bought an EW for 5 years. I just like peace of mind.
Good Luck

Here's the thread on the STB showing pros, cons, opinions. Interesting that you didn't participate.

http://digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40820

I didn't participate because my views have been written many times throughout this forum including a HUGE review I did of the SFA8000 (non-HD version - though the critism applies almost identically to the HD version - though the HD version doesn't suffer from the sluggishness of the earlier non-HD versio) some two years ago now. The person asking the qustions needed only to read the forum for our views. I did do a quick search of the forum and couldn't find my earlier review

The short answer is:

pros

- records HD (about 75%-85% of the time you want it too)
- records two shows at once.
- has a nice PiP window when scrolling through the menu - I wish TiVo had that
- has an undocumented free-space indicator - something I've always wanted on TiVo

cons

- everything else about the device.
- I reposted my original review on the TiVoCommunity forum a couple days ago. If interested, here was my review a couple years ago (precious little has changed):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4117088&&#post4117088

...Dale

I did buy the EW when I bought my 8000, I didn't regret it, when I started to have pixelisation on it they exchanged on the spot with a 8300.

As far as I know the rogers EW is not limited in time, it is good as long as you pay for it (monthly fee). In the future shop case it might be one limited in time.

i think it is for a limited time.

it's interesting to see my post carried on for so long here. i'll give an update:

i've had my current 8300 since my last problem, which is i believe about 18 months. as per 57's suggestions, i placed it in an area where it could ventilate well. it is not in my cabinet but is in open space, so to speak. no problems with it breaking down, although i've had other changes in it (ie it doesn't save where i left off playing a recorded program - it used to do that. if anyone knows about this please let me know).

my advice on the extended is similar to 57's with a catch. you always have to look at the expense of it vs. how much you are purchasing the item for. however, if you feel that you father will not take care of it well (ie he won't listen to you when you tell him to keep it well ventilated), then i would strongly consider it. make sure the EW is transferrable.

pab

I bought the 8300HD during the sale 2 weeks back. I didn't buy the EW then. I noticed using my unit that the top 1/5 of the tv screen was a little jerky side to side. Yesterday I tried moving it (it was next to a receiver) and cable swapping but no change. After talking to Rogers tech, I returned it to Future Shop for another, and this one is fine. I purchased the 4 yr warranty for $99 (3 yrs was $79) yesterday. If it breaks, unless it's the hard drive, I'm sure they will just replace it.