: TMN-HD - Major Macroblocking


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spin-dizzy
2005-08-31, 02:21 PM
Monday night's Stargate Atlantis (08-29-2005) was stuttering on my 8300HD for pretty much the entire show.

57
2005-08-31, 02:23 PM
See the following thread regarding the stuttering issue, especially the last couple of pages - the stuttering issue should be resolved from here forward.

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27807

spin-dizzy
2005-09-01, 09:17 AM
Thanks 57!

otown47
2005-09-26, 06:47 PM
I watched Bad Boyz 2 for a while today and noticed that the macro blocking has been reduced quite a bit. However its still there...especially in closeups in action scenes. It would be nice to have it reduced some more.

brownriggd
2005-09-26, 08:21 PM
The only TMN broadcast I've watched in the last 4 weeks is Rome and haven't seen any PQ probs. Last week though I took a quick peek at Shark Tale and the MB'ing was awful. How can it range from practically nothing for one show and then be almost unwatchable on another.....

otown47
2005-09-27, 07:46 AM
The reason I chose Bad Boyz 2 to comment on is that it has lots of action scenes....this is where macro blocking will occur. Rome is slow (in more ways than one) so macro blocking wouldn't be a problem here.

57
2005-09-27, 09:30 AM
How can it range from practically nothing for one show and then be almost unwatchable on another.....As mentioned, the amount of movement on screen is a predictor of the potential for macroblocking.

Also some of the movies may not have been re-encoded at the higher bitrate yet. All new movies should be at the higher bitrate.

nfitz
2005-10-03, 10:16 PM
I got the impression from the discussion that the TMN signal was now the same bitrate as the other HD channels.

But I was deleting today's Stargate Atlantis ... and I checked the space available before and after. The recording only took 3% of space ... same as a few months ago. I haven't been watching the recordings of Stargate, Rome, or Six Feet Under I've been taking for the last few mothns ...

... but on ABC/CBS/NBC, it almost always takes about 5%. Surely this implies the bitrate on TMN is lower? I thought I noticed the same thing last week too ... but I wasn't sure if I'd seen it right.

Nick

57
2005-10-04, 09:03 AM
I've been getting about 5% per hour, but I'll check more closely in future. (I thought Rome was 5%)

Try a new 2 hour movie and see if you get 9-10%. Some of the older movies may not have been re-encoded at the new bitrate...

I can't explain why a new Stargate wouldn't be at the higher bitrate though.

nfitz
2005-10-04, 01:30 PM
I can't explain why a new Stargate wouldn't be at the higher bitrate though.Well it was a repeat of the Season premiere from July ...

I'll watch what happens when Rome is on again.

Nick

57
2005-10-04, 11:34 PM
Well it was a repeat of the Season premiere from JulyThat probably explains it. It probably hasn't been re-encoded. Check the new programmes. I checked my most recent Rome and it was 5%.

AVphile
2005-10-18, 05:00 PM
But I was deleting today's Stargate Atlantis ... and I checked the space available before and after. The recording only took 3% of space ... same as a few months ago. I haven't been watching the recordings of Stargate, Rome, or Six Feet Under I've been taking for the last few mothns ...

... but on ABC/CBS/NBC, it almost always takes about 5%. Surely this implies the bitrate on TMN is lower?

Maybe a shorter running time on TMN (no commercials)?

57
2005-10-26, 09:35 AM
I have been able to catch up on a few movies I recorded recently on TMN-HD. All of the NEW movies I have seen have been encoded at the higher bitrate. I checked each one before/after deleting. I've also checked Rome each time it's been on.

In addition, quite a few HD movies have been DD5.1 and "Team America" was OAR.

I'm not sure if any of the "older" movies were re-encoded at the higher bitrate. I did record one of the older movies and when I deleted it, it didn't appear to be at the higher bitrate.

nfitz
2005-10-26, 11:35 AM
I checked my most recent Rome and it was 5%.Yes, this is what I've been getting too.

Nick

otown47
2005-11-22, 07:20 AM
If you want to see a well encoded movie check out "Resident Evil". The PQ is great and there is very little macroblocking in the action scenes....of which there are many. The audio is 5.1, the channels are correct and the volume is loud.

If TMN ensured this quality for all its movies we wouldn't have any technical problems to complain about.

nfitz
2006-05-11, 03:56 PM
That probably explains it. It probably hasn't been re-encoded. Check the new programmes. I checked my most recent Rome and it was 5%.TMN has looked fine for months ... but I'm consistently seeing that new HBO programming on TMN (Big Love and Sopranos) always seems to take only 4% of the space on my PVR. Yet 5% to 6% is the norm on the big 3 networks (and noticeably, the last two episodes of Lost on CTV have been 6% ... though obviously there is some rounding involved).

Thoughts?

Nick

57
2006-05-11, 08:31 PM
I just deleted a two hour TMN movie and went from 48% to 38%. Rounding error on shorter programmes may contribute to these minor variances. If you were to record say 4 hours, then the error goes down.

Another, more accurate way to check is the formula in this post - the section in that post on HDD Space Available.

http://digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13405

nfitz
2006-05-11, 10:38 PM
I just deleted a two hour TMN movie and went from 48% to 38%. Rounding error on shorter programmes may contribute to these minor variances. If you were to record say 4 hours, then the error goes downAgreed ... but since Sopranos and Big Love restarted ... I'm yet to delete an episode that frees up more than 4%. However of the other 1-hour programs I record on NBC, CBS, ABC, and CTV; I'm yet to delete an episode in the same period of time, that frees up less than 5%. Yesterday, I deleted the last 2 episodes of Lost (2-hours), and got back 12%. I think there's a bit more than rounding going on - at least on the HBO-originated material. Whether it be how it is broadcasted, or a function of the higher compression ration of the signal for the last 5 minutes when it is just a screen, I don't know ...

Nick

Den
2006-05-19, 03:06 AM
But were the TMN recordings all full hours? Recently (although not any more apparently), the IPG on Rogers has been listing TMN shows according to the actual end time within 5 minutes, followed by a placeholder that was called "TMN High Definition" or something like that.

So, if a show had an episode length of 49 minutes, you'd get a recording of 50 minutes length as your PVR would not record the placeholder (when TMNHD shows a static screen while the SD multiplex channel runs promos).

This may not be the actual case for what you encountered (I think Sopranos episodes are usually listed as around 59 minutes so you probably recorded a full hour), but it's a suggestion.

Also, I assume that in general TMN recordings take up less space for an equal amount of time on another network if part of the recording consists of the static TMN HD logo they put up after a show ends. Maybe?

57
2006-05-19, 10:00 AM
I've also noticed a lower bitrate and more macroblocking on some recent movies (Mean Girls for example, which only deleted 7% of the HDD while being almost 2 hours long). I've e-mailed my contact at Astral.

I don't know if the "logo" uses less bitrate . It'd be pretty easy to test by simply recording the logo and using the formula in post 77 for more accuracy.