Calm down jay.

Well from what I am reading Bell has done what Dish did and cut off the hackers for now, not sure if they did all the channels yet but lets hope it works for them this time.

BEV is bigger than SC because BEV is hackable and SC isn't.

How would hacking make BEV bigger than SC? The hackers don't appear in BEV's financial numbers.

Easy. When BEV was fist hackable (many years ago) lots of hackers got minimum packages. Directv hackers did the same thing. When they were zapped they switched back to the legit card until a fix was found.

Directv users also cloned the legit card. Not sure if that was/is possible with Bell/Dish hackers.

Well it seems to be good news so far, Bell still did not switch all channels and Dish also has some that are not locked yet, hope they lock them all asap, all those cheap hackers are crying hahaha! hackers are still opening the services though they are not using fta but a card, I hope Nagra can figure out how to shut those down also :)

Well it seems to be good news so far... all those cheap hackers are crying hahaha! hackers are still opening the services though they are not using fta but a card...Nice!
Now lets wait for BEV Q3 subscriber results.
If they go up - workforbell could have been right.
If they don't - maybe he'll shut up.

Diogen.

These hackers are all trying to wait it out, if nothing comes they will try to hack other systems, if that does not work in the next 3-8 months they will start to sub, mostly will be sharing though, and that will get much bigger than it is untill a forced plug in or something can be done to stop it.

These hackers are all trying to wait it out, if nothing comes they will try to hack other systems, if that does not work in the next 3-8 months they will start to sub, mostly will be sharing though, and that will get much bigger than it is untill a forced plug in or something can be done to stop it.This sounds reasonable and logical under one assumption: BEV has a genuine desire to stop hacking for good.
From my observations over the last couple years, those assumptions are nothing but wishful thinking.

Is it different this time? Could be. I won't believe it until I see it.

Diogen.

Is it different this time? Could be. I won't believe it until I see it.

Diogen.

I would like to see it be locked for good.

One fta manufacture claims they will have there stuff running again at the end of next week, I guess we will see if Nagra can stop this or not...

This sounds reasonable and logical under one assumption: BEV has a genuine desire to stop hacking for good.
From my observations over the last couple years, those assumptions are nothing but wishful thinking.

Is it different this time? Could be. I won't believe it until I see it.

Diogen.

I think it's totally possible for them to stop hacking if they force their customers to plug-in the phone line and force the receivers to call every day for a new key. If this is implemented and forced, what are hackers to do? The best the hackers can do is watch for a day....but the annoyances of having to update their cards every day will make the hacking population diminish.

I think it's totally possible for them to stop hacking if they force their customers to plug-in the phone line and force the receivers to call every day for a new key. If this is implemented and forced, what are hackers to do? The best the hackers can do is watch for a day....but the annoyances of having to update their cards every day will make the hacking population diminish.

This has been discussed many times over this thread and others. It, in my and others opinion, is not a viable solution. I and many others are paying subscribers who don't have landlines. Should I be forced to get a landline in order to subscribe to satellite service? No way. If this was enforced I would have to cancel my service immediately and find another provider.

Nice!
Now lets wait for BEV Q3 subscriber results.
If they go up - workforbell could have been right.
If they don't - maybe he'll shut up.

Diogen.

We wouldn't see the lift till q4, the hackers will wait to see if there is a fix untill the new schedual and nfl start, onece they start and there is no fix they will be forced to get a legit source.

While we are waiting for those numbers, can you elaborate on those statements you made:I am not talking about q1 06 because hacking came back and has hurt the business...From what I remember, there was no difference in the hacking landscape between Q4 05 and Q1 06.
What event in hacker-land are you referring to that differentiates those quaters?
...Subscribers increased from 1.503 million to 1.727 million.If the hacking scene was the same, what triggered this increase in subscribers?

Diogen.

This has been discussed many times over this thread and others. It, in my and others opinion, is not a viable solution. I and many others are paying subscribers who don't have landlines. Should I be forced to get a landline in order to subscribe to satellite service? No way. If this was inforced I would have to cancel my service immediately and find another provider.

There's the rub: The question is which is the greater good - to accomodate legit customers who have no landline at the expense of being open to hacking vs unfortunatly squeezing out the legit no landline customers while slamming shut the gaping hole that hackers use to their advantage.

It all comes down to a numbers game. If they knew for sure that there was only say 100 no landline customers, then the best decision would be to lose those customers since they will be be shutting down allegedly 10's of thousands of hackers, and in turn flipping a percentage of them into new subs.

However, nobody knows the reality of how many customers have no landline; though, I've heard estimates that in highly urban areas like southern Ontario there are upwards of 10% of households that have no landline. This is a fairly significant number. Further, of households with no landline, how many are then also actual or potentional BEV customers is also an unknown. Either way, it is estimated that the number of households with no landlines is only going to increase. These are the reasons that they are probably choking on the decision to enforce the landline connection, and probably why it will not happen.

I won't even get into theorizing how many hackers there are, but I would bet that the numbers favour losing x thousands of legit subs given that they will be replaced by y thousands of new subs from former hackers. I would also bet that they don't have the backbone to make the gamble and will continue with business as usual.....

:eek:

...I would bet that the numbers favour losing x thousands of legit subs given that they will be replaced by y thousands of new subs from former hackers.I hear this statement repeated over and over: making BEV un-hackable will convert some of the hackers into subscribers.
What is this based on?
I think it is not going to happen, but don't have proof either.

I don't know a single instance where hacked BEV is the _one-and-only_ source of TV programming,
there is _always_ a legit source on top of this illegal one: OTA, cable, SC, or BEV.
I could understand increase in # of packages per subscription but not in # of subscription.
And I'm not talking about those having C-Band dishes and doing this for many years - most of them hate BEV with passion.

Diogen.

....... while slamming shut the gaping hole that hackers use to their advantage.


As I have said before, this won't work. The only way to make the receiver require an active phone connection before it would show video would be through a firmware upgrade.

Firmware upgrades can be circumvented by loading older firmware or rewriting the new firmware and removing the phone connection check.

the only way to eliminate pirates is to simply have the RCMP crack down and severly punish people who are committing these crimes...i would imagine that if the RCMP showed up at your house, and caught you pirating satellite service, arrested you, and issued you a $50,000 fine, you would most likely stop pirating the service, as you wouldn't want to lose your house for getting free TV.

here's an interesting story...a guy came in to the store yesterday and purchased a new BEV system (basic 4120 system)...he recently purchased a dish network system with hacked card for $400 2 weeks ago and set it up...he was using the service for the 2 weeks and the service was shut down...he went back to where he got it from and they wanted another $200 to reprogram the card...he said "I just bought this stuff 2 weeks ago for $400"...the guy said, that's the chance you take.

so instead of "stealing the service", he spent $49 on a new system, and was going to subscribe to the $47 package...which equate to about the same annual cost as if he was "stealing it anyway" (mind you, he would have been gettting EVERY channel).

...Firmware upgrades can be circumvented by loading older firmware or rewriting the new firmware and removing the phone connection check.
True for a short while. There have been many firmware upgradees that basically forced hackers to comply as more and more channels went dark.

That was common practice a few years ago.
You want the 'good stuff' - you must take the upgrade that set them all up for the next card or receiver kill ECM.

There will always be a core group that paying is not an option for whatever reason. As a business, do you really want a customer that is either likely to take your subsidized receiver and then hack it or cancel/downgrade as soon as the next 'fix' becomes available.
With a large population of undesirable customers, I'm not convinced that's the type they want. It simply costs too much.

I have long suspected there is a correlation that those that steal satellite signals are likely to steal computer software and other copyrighted works like music and video. This same group is not likely to steal and apple or a car though as they are tangeble objects, while the others are not.

Hey I was around when the entire internet was FREE and I just don't believe in paying at sites for information. It's a cultural thing.

something interesting (and rather puzzling) that Rogers recently did was remove The Golf Channel from their analog cable package, and place it as a digital channel requiring customers to upgrade to digital progamming...now, we have been quite busy in the last few weeks switching a lot of people over and i can't get over how many of them are switching JUST because of it...apparently Rogers has a deal where they give their customer The Golf Channel free for a period of time, but many were simply waiting for a reason to switch...i never thought i would say this, but "Thank you Rogers".

I wonder how many Shaw subs you're getting because they moved CNBC I think to Digital and bumped Encore Avenue to basic Analog?