I would like to stress that the internal disk contains 2 partitions and a proprietary FS. So it is essential that you image the entire disk (allocated and unallocated and used and unused space) and not just all the partitions. A Lot of people are using the word volume and partition when describing their process. I just wanted to make sure we are talking the same lingo and you are not overlooking anything.

Jake,

Raw Disk Image contains an identical copy of every disk sector. It can be used for backup of non-Windows systems and future data recovery.

You have a point though Jake when he comes back from the image to disk so Jeff pay particular attention to this

The process for restoring a disk is different from the process for restoring a partition.

When you restore a disk:

All partitions that belong to the selected disk are restored.
The operation is more automated and you have less control.
You cannot specify the size and location of the partitions on the disk.
You cannot assign a drive letter to a partition.
All existing partitions and the data in them in the destination disk will be permanently removed to make space for the restored disk and its partitions.
If the destination disk is a different size than the disk archive, all partitions in the disk image are restored to the destination disk using automatic resizing. The restored partitions will occupy all target disk space proportionally to their original size.
If the destination disk has the same disk geometry (sectors per track and tracks per cylinder) as the original one and it is of the same or larger size, you have an option to preserve the exact size and location of partitions on the disk being restored.

Ruby

Yes that was my point. The MBR is critical since if you mount it under Windows it will modify the MBR as I understand it. I doubt the PVR MBR is standard.

Here are the four Active@ Disk Image steps I would follow.
1. http://www.disk-image.net/about_clone_disk.htm
2. http://www.disk-image.net/clone_dest_disk.htm
3. http://www.disk-image.net/clone_delete_all.htm
4. http://www.disk-image.net/clone_confirm_disk.htm

I underlined the important bit.

Restoring MBR and track 0

When you create an image of a disk or a partition, the first track of each disk containing a MBR in sector 0 is stored in the backup. Normally track 0 is filled with zeros except the first track which contains MBR (Master Boot Record) code and a partition table. The MBR code is necessary to boot a system from the disk and must be present on the disk containing an active partition. When a new disk is added to the system Windows must initialize it before use (you can do it in Disk Manager). During disk initialization a typical MBR is written to the first sector. Alternatively you may simply restore a partition to the new disk and Active@ Disk Image will also initialize it, so you should have no problems with booting from that disk.

However, if you use a non-standard boot manager it might use a proprietary MBR code and extra code or data in sector 1 and below. If you make a backup of such a disk and later restore it as a whole disk, the whole first track (normally 63 sectors) will be restored automatically, so the alternative boot manager data will be restored. If you, however, decide to restore only a single partition to another (perhaps clean) disk, this proprietary MBR and data will be left behind. You have an option to restore the disk header (MBR and track 0) as a separate item when you are restoring that partition.

When restoring a disk header (MBR and track 0), only sectors belonging to the first track are overwritten. The partition table on the target disk is also preserved, so it is safe to restore a disk header to the disk containing data and you can do it even after restoring a partition

Jake,

He won't be able to do your four because he cannot boot with a CD (which he can't do) because of the trial version.

But, if he follows exactly what I have outlined and when he comes back with the image and if he says that he wants to restore DISK, it will give him what he wants and resize everything automatically.

Ruby

Same terminology - used create raw to copy whole disk including unused space.

Ruby thanks for the pointers - I'll go through another step by step attempt and see what happens. Probably take a day or two to get to it.

Thanks for the help - I'll report back results...

While waiting for Jeff to post his results, I google

Lsoft Technologies

to get more info if we could.

Guess what I found, by clicking on their link, what it shows you is that you can download a demo version for free Active Boot Disk.

10-days trial (demo) version available for free download. Installation package contains all necessary tools to create bootable USB/CD/DVD media.

Which means with that tool, you do what I did, no fuss, no bother, you put the 2 hard disks in your computer, boot with the cd, choose clone, click on the source which is pvr disk, click on destination which is new disk, let it do it's job and you're done.

Ruby

Good find. But I am unclear on the whole boot CD requirement. The readme for ADI states that the trial is fully functional for 28 days and under Windows XP or Vista you can perform the 4 steps I mentioned. So whether you are using the trial or full version should not matter. Granted the trial does not come with the boot image. If you are saying the boot version is a requirement to image due to some locking glitch then I understand. But nothing in the ADI FAQ indicates that a CD boot is necessary. Especially when dealing with non system disks. Could you elaborate on that requirement? It would make a good piece of KB.

I will try,

The problem some of the people have is with doing an image and then coming back with it to the new disk. It's not a clean cut as doing a clone job.

I don't have the software still installed on my system but originally, it permitted me to make a bootable cd with all the tools on the cd and with this it gives you the option of the cloning tool or should I say CLONE DISK. I then disconnected my computer disk, connected the pvr and new disk in my system, booted with the cd and voila cloned.

From what people here have been saying, with the 21/28 days (don't remember how many days) evaluation copy, they cannot make a bootable CD therefore unless you can connect 2 other hard disks in your system be it pata or usb, you could use their free 21/28 days evaluation copy that was installed on your existing computer hard disk and use the clone function.

Look at LesE, he is using usb adapters and therefore is able to clone. Buzzhornet cloned because he used 2 usb adapters also.

So, if all you have is the 21/28 days evaluation installed, you would/could if you had 2 pata connectors in your computer attach a new disk on both connectors as slaves to the HD and to the DVD/CD. Then, you could use the clone tool. Most computers either do not have 2 pata connectors, some even have no pata connectors.

Therefore, by going the route of getting the software I mentioned instead of the 21/28 days evaluation copy, you would then be able to make a CD/DVD/USB bootable disk with all the tools needed.

In regards to the 4 steps, in my mind one of them could not be done but I don't remember which one and why, I will reread again when I have time but the main point here is to get the bootable to be able to clone.

Hope all this mumbo jumbo is clear and my english is ok.

Ruby

Jake, none of the 4 can be done, unless he has the version on CD, he cannot access Clone Disk utility.

I would think that you must have unchecked it. You would not want that option selected, as then the new disk would have the same partition size as the old disk, which is not what you want. What you want is to transfer the data from the old disk, but for the partition on the new disk to use the full size available. That's the problem that Burgerjeff is having.

Did you use the full version of Active@ Disk Image or the trial version? Burgerjeff is using the trial version and has been unable to use the full space of his new larger disk. I think we need to be clear and specific here, so as to help anyone looking for details rather than to confuse them.

I think you are right that this is likely the stumbling block that Burgerjeff is having. I guess I got lucky. Sorry i can't remember without doubt what i did click. I did purchase the full version. I created a boot disk and started the program that way to create my image and later copy that image over to the new drive. IMHO I really don't think that using the boot disk option made the difference.

No dice! Same results as before. The only setting that could be changed when restoring image to new disk was unchecking a box that keeps partitions and size the same (for use when imaging same size disk). Unchecked it (which I also did in previous attempt). UGHH!

Time to throw in the towel. It might have something to do with the cable card in the 8300hdc...

I guess I'll go back to trying to get the e-SATA port to work with my Free Agent Pro 500GB external drive. From that thread it looks like no one has yet....

Funny, the box clearly sees the external drive (all 500GB) shows up in diagnostics pages, but the box will not format the drive no matter what I do.

Thanks for all the help!

The only setting that could be changed when restoring image to new disk was unchecking a box that keeps partitions and size the same (for use when imaging same size disk). Unchecked it (which I also did in previous attempt). UGHH!

Sorry to hear about your problems. I was tempted to throw in the towel myself but it can work.

Did you ever try it with that box checked? I'm still leaning that way as to what I did.

I guess I'll go back to trying to get the e-SATA port to work with my Free Agent Pro 500GB external drive. From that thread it looks like no one has yet....
That drive will not work as discussed in the eHDD thread several times.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=726384#post726384

Any drive that is not on 24/7 will not work. The MyBook and FreeAgent drives have power management software that precludes their use with the SA8300HD. Please read the links in post 1 of the eHDD thread, it'll save you from more experimenting, wasted time and wasted money.

Cheaperthanyou says he "did purchase the full version", whereas Burgerjeff is using the free trial version. Perhaps that makes a difference. I know with Acronis True Image, some features are not available in the trial version.

Burgerjeff, if you look in the external drive thread, you'll see discussions of various equipment that was successful, including what I used. I added 640 GB of external storage, at a very reasonable price and setup was easy.

Jeff,

Why don't you try my post 306 and forget about the image, go with clone.

Ruby

Funny, the box clearly sees the external drive (all 500GB) shows up in diagnostics pages, but the box will not format the drive no matter what I do.


Once you put the new disk in the pvr, it is not suppose to format it, the format comes from your previous disk, it will format the new sectors on the go as needed.

Also, I don't really understand what you are saying by THE EXTERNAL DRIVE.



THIS FOLLOWING TEST WOULD ONLY TAKE ABOUT 10 MINUTES EACH WAY

Are you sure that if you put in the old disk

it would show you example = 35%

and then swap for the new disk and that number should go down a lot, have you tried looking at both these numbers.



I don't think because you have the 8300hdc that the card model would be different from ours because you do see on page 36 or whatever the proper size.

The other thing is you are always using the original image, could be that is where your problem lies, don't think so but we are looking at all possibility.

Cheaper is right, at this point you should perhaps not UNCHECK when coming back with the image. The instructions in the manual never mentions that item so who knows.

But, in the end, since you already have all the equipt and only would need to download the new utility from Lsoft, I would strongly suggest giving that a try.

Good luck

Ruby

Ruby - Thanks for the perseverance! The clone was what I did on my first attempt. Also, in my last comment, I was referring to Plan B which is using the SATA port on the back of the 8300HDC as another alternative vs. internal drive.

57 - read the entire thread on external before going the internal route, Now I'm doubling back... I also thought I read in another forum that a couple of people have been successful (i might be wrong) with an eSATA to SATA cable? if power management is the knock out I guess that's all there is. (Also another thread)

thought I read in another forum that a couple of people have been successful (i might be wrong) with an eSATA to SATA cable? If you use the Vantec enclosure that I did, it comes with the cable; you wouldn't need to buy anything else, other than a drive to place in the enclosure. My 640 GB drive is happily running inside my Vantec enclosure, giving me a total of 5 times the storage that I had originally.

if power management is the knock out I guess that's all there is. I don't know what that sentence means.

I'm out of luck, at the end of the trail, kaput...

Not kaput yet.

It could be a faulty software installation issue or whatever.

1. Take a deap breath.
2. Download the new utility which you don't have (different software).
3. Register the software so you can get the email that will unlock the software.
4. Install the utility, do a bootable CD.
5. Plug both hard disk in there.
6. Reboot, clone the mother.

You then have a fresh hard disk because the clone process has erased whatever was on it, you have a second piece of software in case the first one was at fault.

You will have your solution.

If you don't want to do that, use windows or any other tool to kill the info on your new disk, I mean zero, YOU CAN EVEN BOOT WITH DOS AND DO FDISK, DELETE PARTITION OTHER, that will do the trick. Forget about the old recording you had. Boot with your new disk, if will then perform the format etc and from there you should have working solution. Record something, calculate your space, if you don't have full space, it's your pvr. Could be the disk also but I would doubt it.

Ruby

Ruby,
Interesting. So you think if I format the new disk and insert with no image the box will format it? I couldn't care less about the recordings on the old disk - since 2-3 weeks have elapsed with attempts 1-3.

BTW, I could try cloning again using the bootable disk version of Active disk instead of software the software version I used on the first clone. But given that a clone will be @3 -4 hours, - I'd rather go with your suggestion above if it's theorhetically possible.