: SA8000/8300HD - Internal Hard Disk Upgrade Works (Cloning too) See Post 1.
2008-11-16, 02:16 PM
Active@Disk Image will still perform the clone operation on an empty drive since it's simply a sector by sector copy of the source drive. In my case, cloning a 160G drive takes just over 4 hours. That makes sense, since sector-by-sector imaging is much slower than normal imaging. Acronis True Image can also do this, via a sector-by-sector imaging option, and it also takes much longer than Acronis True Image's normal imaging or cloning operation.
2008-11-16, 02:46 PM
I just got back from exchanging my HD. No problems as I was within the exchange time limits and I had a copy of the failed test results. As I type I am copying my previous image to the new drive. 10 minutes into it and 3:42 hours to go. As far as a direct clone it would not work for me. I tried many times on both computers. I tried with it hooked up through usb ide adapters and the other with ide internally. I even created a boot disk and tried Active @Disk Management without windows. Maybe it was related to the bad drive but the message was concerning the original drive. From memory Active @Disk Management said something like the original pvr drive was empty and then the program shut down. I have 3.1.13 version.
I was tempted to just install this new drive without copying but I need to know if this will work or not.
Alan I will take your advise and perform that hard drive check before I install. ;)
2008-11-16, 09:14 PM
Watch what you say....
(Acronis True Image can also do this)
it cannot do it on a proprietary system disk as in OUR CASE. Read back a few messages where I mislead people with that piece of software.
As far as I know, the only software that will do the trick is
Also, for people that only have a portable as a computer, a usb adapter is the way to go but only in that situation.
If you have a desktop computer with a pata connector,
1. Make an active disk startup disk
2. Disconnect your present hard disk(s)
3. Shunt the pvr disk as master
4. Shunt the new disk as slave
5. Boot and copy over to the new drive
6. Change the acoustic level as per previous instructions
6. Shunt the new drive as cable select
7. Reconnect your computer drive and you can close your desktop
7. You are good to go
2008-11-17, 11:34 AM
I was commenting on the time difference between a normal image and a sector-by-sector image. Acronis True Image also takes longer to do the latter.
I don't know whether Acronis True Image can image these PVR disks or not, but I would suggest that it has not yet been properly tested. You tried to use the Clone function, which as an experienced ATI user I would say is not the best choice for this situation. I would use the Image/Backup function not Clone, with the sector-by-sector imaging option. It may even be that it can't be done via the Windows version, but should instead be done via Acronis True Image's Linux-based recovery disk.
As a quick test, I just now took my external drive enclosure from my PVR and connected it to my PC via USB. Acronis True Image Windows can see that a disk is connected, but reads it as empty because its format is unrecognized. I then booted from Acronis True Image's Linux-based recovery disk, and began a sector-by-sector imaging of the PVR's external drive. Acronis True Image successfully began the process, estimating 8 hours for full image. After about half an hour the progress bars began to appear and time remaining was then estimated to be 7 hours.
At that point I cancelled it, since I didn't want to tie up my PC for 7 hours, and I had a useful result. Acronis True Image's Linux-based recovery disk was able to image the PVR's external drive, so I think it would also be able to image the PVR's internal drive once it were connected to the PC.
I wouldn't suggest that someone run out to buy Acronis True Image solely to transfer the contents of their internal or external PVR drive to a new, larger drive. But, if they already own Acronis True Image or if they also have need for a top-notch imaging/backup/recovery tool, then it seems like Acronis True Image can also handle imaging and restoring PVR drives.
2008-11-17, 12:02 PM
The Upgrade challenge continues...
Thought I had it by using Active Disk to create raw image of the original 160GB, then imaging new 500gb drive ( via image to disk). All went as before. Everything works fine, but still not recognizing the extra capacity of the 500GB disk versus the original 160 GB. For instance I have 7 hours of HD programming recorded and the space used shows 32%.
By my calculations, using 8 GB/hour as a conversion factor, this should be about 56GB used. 56/160 = 35%, so its close on 160 GB as total capacity.
(56/500 = 11% used). So my conclusion is my newly installed 500GB is still setting up in the SA 8300HDC as a 160.
The diagnostic page shows all 465GB of the 500 disk recognized and available, but this doesn't line up with space used...
Kinda like the Twilight zone having now imaged 2x in deffierent ways with Active Disk.
2008-11-17, 12:17 PM
Did Active Disk give you an option to either transfer the volume "as is" (160 GB) or modify it to use the increased space of the new drive? I know that Acronis True Image has some option like that to enable you to use the full space available when moving to a larger drive.
2008-11-17, 01:39 PM
No options beyond selecting source and target in the Active disk (trial version). I was looking for options like that...
2008-11-17, 01:55 PM
I don't know what to suggest since I've never used Active Disk. Perhaps the trial version is more limited. Check earlier posts in this thread to see if others used the trial version or the full version of Active Disk.
I know that Acronis True Image enables you to choose to use the full space available when moving to a larger drive, so I would expect other disk imaging/cloning tools to have something similar.
2008-11-17, 02:19 PM
Take your time.
I would read post 216, 137 then look over post 225
choose clone disk if both disks are in the unit.
Maybe you have a point but it would need to be proven. If you have a small hard disk and time, put it in the pvr, let it boot etc.... record a program, try to clone like you said, either it will work or not. Lot's of work but a challenge..
2008-11-17, 03:52 PM
Maybe you have a point but it would need to be proven. I already proved that ATI (Acronis True Image) can image and restore disks formatted by the PVR. It's a small extrapolation to suggest that it can likely also handle the internal disks as well as the external disks.
try to clone like you said No, that was the problem with what you tried. "Clone" is a specific function in ATI, intended to transfer an image of a Windows system disk to a new, usually larger, disk. For transferring an image of a PVR disk, which is not Windows, one should boot from ATI's Linux-based recovery disk and choose the "Backup" function with sector-by-sector option. "Backup" was, IIRC, called "Image" in some earlier verions of ATI. The version of ATI may make a difference, as later versions added support for more types of hardware. I used ATI 11 for this test.
The warnings given previously in this thread were based on an incorrect use of the software, so they were proof of nothing. My testing shows that ATI can work on PVR external disks, so that is now better information. The next time someone needs to transfer to a larger internal disk, if he has a copy of Acronis True Image then he can try it (using the proper process) and report. For now, it appears that Acronis True Image can be used, so there's no need to warn people against trying it.
2008-11-17, 09:31 PM
Alan, I don't want to have the last word.
Maybe you're right about your Linux version, these functions are also included in the windows version but using the pictures in post 225 and knowing you can download the free software and by doing a single clone disk click you have the job done.
So, let's see who will be the first to try the other way but I have to admit, technically, it could be done, but according to my clicks in Acronis, I had to go through about 7 screens which I had to make decisions to get to where I might get a successful operationing disk.
2008-11-17, 10:49 PM
I just wanted to mention that I finished copying my original hard drive to the new drive last night. I used the Raw Uncompressed Image that I had created earlier and then used "Image to Disk" with Active Disk to copy everything over. When selecting the destination disk it gives you one option. Check whether your want "keep original size and locations of partitions". To be honest I'm not 100% sure but I believe that option was checked as it appears to be the default setting.
I also verified that the hard drive was in good operating condition with Western Digital Diagnostics. It passed so I installed the hard drive late last night. Surprising it worked! lol Everything was copied over. I have been testing the pvr for a few hours this evening and it has been flawless. Whew I'm glad that chore is over. It was not as easy as I had hoped but I had some bad luck. :eek:
2008-11-18, 12:00 AM
technically, it could be done, but according to my clicks in Acronis, I had to go through about 7 screens which I had to make decisions to get to where I might get a successful operationing disk. We've already established that you did not follow the proper procedure for using Acronis True Image for this task, so the particular steps you did aren't really relevant.
The point is that there are likely many tools that can copy the PVR disk to allow upgrade. As we've seen in this thread, some people have trouble with Active Disk. That's why if they're already experienced users of another disk imaging tool, such as I am with Acronis True Image, it may be more successful for them to use their existing tool.
I've found through my testing that I can accomplish it with Acronis True Image and since I'm already a power user of that tool it makes most sense for me to use it rather than learn a new tool. I just wanted to correct the erroneous information earlier in this thread that incorrectly stated that Acronis True Image could not handle this task.
So, if you need to copy your PVR disk to a newer or larger disk and if you don't own any imaging software, you may want to try Active Disk. If you already are familiar with using Acronis True Image's Linux recovery disk, use it as I've outlined. If you already own and use some other imaging tool, you might want to try it first to see if it works.
2008-11-18, 10:35 AM
When selecting the destination disk it gives you one option. Check whether your want "keep original size and locations of partitions". To be honest I'm not 100% sure but I believe that option was checked as it appears to be the default setting. I would think that you must have unchecked it. You would not want that option selected, as then the new disk would have the same partition size as the old disk, which is not what you want. What you want is to transfer the data from the old disk, but for the partition on the new disk to use the full size available. That's the problem that Burgerjeff is having.
Did you use the full version of Active@ Disk Image or the trial version? Burgerjeff is using the trial version and has been unable to use the full space of his new larger disk. I think we need to be clear and specific here, so as to help anyone looking for details rather than to confuse them.
2008-11-18, 11:46 AM
Interesting - I couldn't find any settings when i used image to disk. I'll go back a review the steps I used. Man, it's a pain pulling apart the box each time I try something new.
Ruby - I've read this thread forwards and backwards, and can't seem to find a sure fire way to get the image transfer to resize for the larger disk capacity.
Has anyone found something other than Active Disk that works? Acronis is a dead end for me - already found that Acronis (again trial version) will not recognize the original disk image (it thinks the disk is empty).
The only other anomoly this time around is that I did not get hex countdown at all on this 2nd try (using raw image then image to disk) versus the 1st try (cloned disk directly in Active Disk) when I got the Hex countdown. Both times the extra capacity not recognized under space used.
So, main question is how to get the disk image right so that it resizes to the new 500GB capacity and is recognized under space used....
2008-11-18, 12:26 PM
Are you using a desktop computer or a portable?
Do you still have the original pvr disk intact as it was when you had it last in the pvr?
Will try to help you out but answer the 2 questions.
In the meantime, if I don't make it back here in time, here is documentation for you to read....
At this point, if you are stil trying with an image you made a while back I would start all over.
if both of your disk are in the system, use
PS, it's been quite a while now since I use the software but it went smooth and was very straightforward but I do not remember each and every step. Maybe LESE can give you the step by step, he's been cloning a lot lately.
ok, I read the manual, originally I was able to do this because I was able to make a bootable cd, the trial version does not give you that option. Use the image option in my next message.
2008-11-18, 12:38 PM
If you are not able to connect the 2 drives at the same time because you have a portable.
read 4 to make the image
read 6 to send it to the new disk
2008-11-18, 01:02 PM
Burgerjeff, you won't be able to do it with the trial version of Acronis. The trial version does not include full functionality.
In Active@ Disk Image, look for the option that Cheaperthanyou mentioned: "keep original size and locations of partitions". He thinks he left that option selected, but I don't believe that. You would not want that option selected, as then the new disk would have the same partition size as the old disk, which is not what you want. So, if you see that option, unselect it.
2008-11-18, 01:38 PM
Thanks for the responses.
Yes I am using a desktop, and I am able to hook up both original drive and the target drive. The original disk (160GB) is unaltered so I can image my heart away... And no, I couldn't make a bootable disk with Active Disk due to trial version so I just used the software download.
1st attempt - Cloned disk ( 1 step). Hex count when hooked up. Works, but still reports space used as if it were a 160 GB disk.
2nd Attempt - Created raw image and saved to system hard drive. The used image to disk from system disk to 500GB drive. Looked for option to expand space to new disk, but saw none. Works, but still reports space used as if it were a 160 GB disk.
That's where I am.
2008-11-18, 02:28 PM
Ok, what I would do is this.
1. Connect the pvr disk in your computer as slave, make sure windows sees it.
2. Make a new folder on your present computer hard disk.
3. Read item 4 intructions from the link I provided, Start Active Disk
4. USE YOUR JUGEMENT TO GO THROUGH THE SCREENS BECAUSE I AM COPY PASTING THE INFORMATION, NOT GOING THROUGH THE MOTION. In the main program window, double-click Create Raw Image.
From the Tools menu, choose Create Raw Image.
Follow instructions on the wizard screens. In each case, click Next to move to the next screen. IF UNSURE, REREAD THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE WEBSITE.
After the operation is complete, click Finish to close the dialog box.
5. Unplug the pvr disk and put in the new disk, make sure it is dipped slave.
6. The Image to Disk Wizard steps you through the process of restoring a disk image archive of a whole disk or a disk partition.
To open the Image to Disk Wizard, do one of the following:
In the main program window, double-click Image to Disk.
From the Tools menu, choose Image to Disk.
Follow instructions on the wizard screens. In each case, click Next to move to the next screen. Just make sure you copy it to your NEW DISK.
7. Make sure you changed the ACOUSTIC LEVEL with the software mentioned in post 225.
When done, unplug the New Pvr DISK, put it back to cable select
8. Install it into the pvr.
9. Good luck.