: Shaw Gateway: Installation and setup discussion
2011-12-27, 04:09 PM
I've tried numerous things for cable labeling over the years, including stick on labels (label printer) but they either come off on their own, or are "removed" by the cat that likes to lick and chew on them for some reason.
Lee Valley has these handy clip on units
The large size units fit nicely over both 18 and 20 AWG cabling, also standard round power cords and such, the smaller units fit nicely over the flat power cords common with Shaw gear.
2011-12-28, 12:23 AM
Ahh yes, every visit is another setup change ;-)
So this morning a tech came to install the 2nd business modem in the internal demarc room, he indicated that he was surprised my home phone service was actually working since it was going through the drop amp that got installed on tuesday and said best practice is NOT to run DPT's through the amps since they'll increase both noise and signal beyond acceptable limits resulting in a burned out DPT.
So in the internal demarc/furnace room he took the cable from the external demarc put it into a 3 way splitter, 1 leg goes to the new modem, 1 leg to the dpt and the 3rd leg to the drop amp which feeds the living room (1 portal and 1 dcx3400), upstairs room with the other BB50 modem, gateway, 1 portal, 1 digital cable box and several other analog connections.
All appears to be working so far and deaenforcement will check the signal levels next week. Hopefully all will be okay....
And a Foreman and tech before did this!!! Did they even place an -6 dB attenuator on the DPT !?!
sibble-comp you should checkout the MoCA amps in this video.
2011-12-29, 12:31 PM
And a Foreman and tech before did this!!! Did they even place an -6 dB attenuator on the DPT !?!
Honestly no idea as I didn't really look at the cabling in any depth on the Tuesday knowing another tech would be in on the Friday. In the future I'll make it a habit of taking a photo after any work is completed.
2012-01-01, 04:07 PM
Well, I've taken the plunge and ordered gateway at the secret sale price. Install scheduled in 10 days. I'm excited in anticipation of the new features while also apprehensive of possible "glitches." I'm keeping a 3400 as backup and to finish watching the recorded shows we are behind on. I've read all I can on the install process and think ours will a fairly simple install compared to many since we are TV customers only (no modem or phone on the coax lines to complicate things).
This is our current non-gateway setup:
incoming cable ==> box on side of house ==> Shaw amplified splitter ==> four active wall outlets (3 inactive)
For the wall outlets, 4 TVs, 3 with Shaw boxes
I think this would be the simplest Gateway installation that provides what I want:
incoming cable ==> box on side of house ==> MoCA Filter ==> Shaw amplified splitter ==> 5 active wall outlets (2 inactive)
For the wall outlets:
1. to Gateway (there is no closet/mechanical room with incoming cable to put the gateway and our basement is fully finished so it will probably need to go where an existing outlet is. I'm planning to put it into a room with no active TV to avoid fan noise)
2. to splitter for two boxes (3400 and portal) connected to the same TV
3. to Portal connected to TV
4. to Portal connected to TV
5. to DCT700 connected to TV (might need a MoCA filter before the DCT700)
So two questions.
1. Does this possible gateway setup seem feasible or have I missed some important facts?
2. Since all the coax in the house will be inside the MoCA network, it is possible to move the gateway/portals around to different outlets, if needed, without having to get Shaw to come back?
2012-01-01, 04:15 PM
Yes, to both of your questions. The Portals don't care what room they are in as long as they are connected to the Gateway. I have swapped three of mine around for different troubleshooting in the past and there are no problems caused by doing so.
Your 'presumed' setup sounds fine to me but the Shaw Tech will tell you if they have any problems with it. You shouldn't have any 'inactive' but connected cable ends after an amplifier though so they will likely change your configuration. I realize it's nice to just be able to plug in to any outlet in your home but 'unused' outlets should not be connected at the demarcation point when they are not in use.
2012-01-01, 05:19 PM
Thank for the answers JetRanger.
By inactive I meant not psyhically connected at the Shaw amplified splitter so those outlets are dead and would be unusable (perhaps I should have said live/dead outlets). Currently only 4 outlets are "live" and if my possible setup for gateway is agreable to Shaw, I would have 5 "live" outlets. Being able to move boxes with TVs around is really attractive though. I wonder if they could make all the outlets "live" and put terminators on the outlets that are not connected to a box. That would really make things flexible for any future needs.
2012-01-02, 02:17 PM
I suppose it couldn't hurt to ask the Tech about having all outlets 'live' but I doubt they would do it as it really doesn't follow with 'best practices'. I doubt many people need to move boxes from room to room and for the majority of the ones that might, I would think they could just swap the needed cables around at the demarc point.
I realize not all installations will have easy access as they can be in a 'locked' CSE box but with the advent of 'all digital' services, you might be able to get the Tech to leave the lock off your box so you can swap cables when you need to swap the box/tv between rooms. This is just a suggestion so please don't be upset if the Tech won't entertain the idea if this is what is needed in your case.
I would suggest either you or the Tech mark all cables with the locations they run to so it will be easier in the future if you are moving things around. The Tech should have a toner that will make this process simple and some tape and a felt pen should take care of the 'label' portion. Again, just a suggestion.
2012-01-02, 09:03 PM
I like the way you think JetRanger.
It would be quite helpful if the box was not locked. The last time a Shaw tech came out he actually had trouble opening it himself because it is an older box with a standard key rather than the special security lock that newer boxes have. He had to go through quite a few keys to get it open. I know they perfer to have the boxes locked to keep people from "tinkering" that shouldn't be but for people like the DH forum members, they can probably save Shaw a few service calls by giving them access to their boxes.
As far as labelling the cables, I wanted to ask the tech to do that too or let me do it. If I had access to the box, I would actually do that myself before the tech arrives since I have a tone wire tracer. I'm more than happy to do whatever prep I can to make the install go as smoothly as possible so the tech has time to focus on anything else I can't help with.
2012-01-02, 10:11 PM
There really is no reason to lock the boxes any more as they are basically giving away 'basic cable' to anyone who cancels their service but doesn't have any filters on their line. In lots of installations the demarc is in the basement on a space beside the electrical panel and completely open to the customer. Locking an exterior box is more of an inconvenience than anything else now.
I would just ask the guy/gal, very politely of course, if there is any real reason to lock it any more and could they leave it unlocked for your convenience. It can't hurt to ask. There's nothing you can do to 'add services' for yourself by having access to that box, like it used to be when the filters were possibly in there.
The worst that can happen is they say 'no' and you are back to where you are now when they leave; unable to make your own simple changes.
2012-01-03, 12:33 AM
I just picked up a Harmony 300, a cheaper device-centric Harmony closer to the old Atlas remotes. I am wondering if you continued to use the Moxi MR-1500T3 as the foundation for your codes when you created the PDF linked below, or if you received an update from Arris or Logitech on this? I couldn't find anything additional about this in my search.
I've got an older Harmony 880, but it was way too confusing for my family to use. I'm hoping that this 300 is simple enough for them, and for $25 it's worth the experiment...
Proof of research :)
2012-01-03, 12:51 AM
Nice to see you did your homework, JasonB.;)
When I set up my Harmony One there were only 'Moxi' codes to use. If you go into the Logitech setup program you should be able to find the Portal remote codes under MP2000 in the Shaw Cable section. I did this about a month or so ago as a 'test' and it does seem to work well. You can of course customize the key functions for any arrangement you are used to.
Typically, the biggest thing you will find is the 'Zoom' function of the MP2000 is the closest thing you will get to an 'Exit' function but it doesn't always work as an 'Exit'. For instance, if you press 'Info', you have to press 'Info' again to get out of that screen rather than pressing 'Zoom'.
I'm not overly familiar with the 300 but if you can find the MP2000 listing while you are in the Logitech program, you should be able to make it work for you, I would think. Best of luck and feel free to post your results so others might benefit.
2012-01-03, 02:36 AM
Oh, cool. Thanks, I didn't even think to look under Shaw, just Moxi and Arris.
To confuse this further, apparently Arris just moved this device and their entire Whole Home Solution back under the Moxi brand :)
I'll report back once I have the portals installed to see how well it works with them, and whether I'm missing anything critical.
BTW, the configuration for the 300 is considerably different and IMO easier than the other Harmony I own... you drag commands onto an image of the remote to assign them:
And mouse-over the image to see what is currently assigned:
And there's still an interface/ability to learn codes, etc.
I'm hoping that the buttons on this device provide enough flexibility so that it will work with future updates to the guide on the Portals. At least it has all four coloured buttons... No dedicated VOD button, but I'll just assign that to one of the "favourites".
2012-01-03, 02:39 PM
Wow, that is a great looking interface for programming the remote. I hope they upgrade it to support other Logitech remotes. 'Drag and drop' would indeed make things a lot more simple.
2012-01-08, 11:19 PM
Does anyone know how to activate the Secondary Audio Program (SAP) on the portal/gateway? It's in the audio section on my moto boxes, but I cant find it on the menu on the portal.
2012-01-09, 12:01 AM
After a quick look through some additional documentation, I don't actually see any support for SAP. If it's is there, I can't find it in the user settings menu either.
2012-01-09, 05:51 PM
Just as an additional note, I have all cables in my home (8) live, only 3 portals.
No problems at all.
Unused lines do not really need to be terminated after the amplifier, but if you have a few before the amp, you may find better picture quality if you do. (depending on signal strength mostly)
I can move the portals around at will, no need to swap cables around at the demark point.
The only time I need to move a cable is if I move my modem.
2012-01-09, 09:21 PM
I believe the problem used to be each 'unterminated' connection was basically a miniature 'broadcasting antenna'. This was only made worse if they occurred after an amplifier, understandably so. This may have been a bigger issue when all signals were analog only but as far as I know, 'best practices' haven't changed and as there are still analog channels being pumped down the line, for now, all 'loose ends' should be tied up, so to speak.
If there are any Cableco technical folks here that would like to chime in, I know I would certainly like to hear how things 'are supposed to be'. Just because any given installation might have numerous unused but connected or 'live' outlets, doesn't mean this is correct or approved by (I believe it was) Industry Canada. They used to drive around with a van covered in antennas looking for 'spurious emissions' and would require the companies that were licensed for the related frequencies come out and find and correct the 'leakage'.
2012-01-10, 12:04 PM
Yes, best practice would be that, however, if you were to look at any demarcation point, either outside, or inside by main demarcation points, you will find many unused tap outputs that are not terminated at all. (most if accessible will just have unterminated locks on them)
So no harm..these signals are in the low mW to high uW range, not much distance to broadcast with those levels. (though of course with a high gain antenna :cool: whole different story)
There was another poster who was worried about taking the portal coax off and connecting it directly to the TV RF input..again no worries (unless the signal is a over +50dbm..but most are at -10 to +10 dbm..( I highly doubt anyone would have levels that high)
The RF input section on most TV's in use today can easily handle those signal strengths.
Just some background information on me, because I realize I am new here.
I am a SAIT Broadcast Electronics Grad,(87) worked in the Cable industry for 13 years (Mostly internal building design) I have installed and set up many industrial building with cable systems (CCTV, LAN and CATV)
My (new) existing job has me taking care of a campus of 6 building and over 2500 cable drops..:eek: and growing..
I've been here for another 10 years on top of the previous 13..
(I'm not sure if that qualifies me for a "Cableco tech" but...:D)
2012-01-10, 06:17 PM
Shaw is coming to install the Gateway and 3 portals.
We have 4 HD TV in the house, one of them will remain on an older Motorola HD box. The point of cable entry into the house is my furnace room. From that room there are individual coax cables going to each room. One of those cables feeds my Shaw Extreme internet modem in my office.
Here's where it gets tricky:
I currently have a Netgear MOCA network (just 2 nodes) setup to give internet access from my office (where the cable modem & router reside) to my livingroom for the TV, computer, Xbox etc.
Highly unlikely I will be able to wire in anything new due to the house layout and finish.
1. Can I leave the cable modem within the Gateway MOCA section? In other words, no MOCA filter in between. I assume I can because currently my cable modem is not filtered from the Netgear MOCA network, I put the MOCA filter at the very entry point of cable into my house. In fact, the Netgear MOCA network runs on the same coax from my office to the livingroom. I do not have a separate coax run.
2. I have hoping but realize it's a longshot that I will be able to get the Netgear MOCA and Gateway MOCA to coexist otherwise I will lose fast internet access to my TV area. Will need to go back to wireless that had many issues that I won't get into here. Powerline ethernet is horribly slow in my house. Has anyone tried this recently?
There was one user who successfully tested their Netgear MOCA to run with their Gateway many months ago. Theoretically I think it should have not worked but did.
3. Can I place the Gateway at the end of one of the coax runs from my room (near one of the TVs)? My furnace room is quite hot and I would prefer the Gateway to be located in one of our larger cabinets (fair amount of cooling I believe).
4. My current plan is to have the cable first run to a two way splitter. One leg to the TV using an older Motorola HD box, the other leg to a 4 way splitter. Each leg of the 4 way splitter would go to: Cable Modem, TV1, TV2, Two way splitter (Gateway & TV in same room). Workable?
5. Likely to need a line amp?
2012-01-10, 06:38 PM
Keeping in mind I am not a cable tech, I'd start by saying it doesn't sound like you would need an amp if you have good signal now. Typically, they like to keep everything that is 'non-TV' related outside the MoCA network. If you already have all the separate lines running from the same location in your basement, it will be simple to separate out the Modem and even the other PVR line if need be. The problem will likely be with your existing MoCA network.
I don't recall anyone saying they got two MoCA networks running on the same coax. I thought it was the opposite but I could be wrong. Wouldn't that be like using one pipe to run hot and cold water in and expect to get both out at respective taps at the other end?(could be a poor analogy, I know) The best part about the MoCA network and Gateway is it can be placed anywhere in the home and still connect to all other devices on a single run as long as they are on the same side of the filter. Your suggestion of placing the Gateway in a 'cooler room' than your furnace room sounds like good reasoning to me and shouldn't be a problem so long as the cabinet you mention has adequate ventilation.
If you only have a single run of coax now, you may find you are out of luck with the existing network you have but by all means, give it a try and let us know how it works out for you.
EDIT: I found your first post in the original Gateway thread: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1260631&postcount=328 and I see you didn't get an answer there at that time. I didn't, and probably still don't, know enough about the MoCA networking to answer then but I at least feel a little more confident now in saying I don't think it will work. I also found this post: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1258656&postcount=227 but it doesn't appear to have been answered there either and that Member hasn't posted again. I thought I remember someone posting about trying this but so far my searches haven't turned up those posts.