...my handyman came over and I had him wallmount the modem and drop amp. The cable installed by the Shaw tech from the dropamp port with the Moca filter was pretty short, maybe 2 feet (18 gauge wire), I replace that with a 4ft piece of 20 gauge wire supplied by the tech that came on tuesday.

Did I not understand that correctly? I read that components were moved by someone who is not a Shaw Tech and that you have replaced a cable. Is that not 'making changes' after the fact?

Like I said, I'm not trying to be rude but it does seem you are causing more harm than good. If you have replaced an RG6 or RG56 coax with an RG59 one then that could be an issue. The MoCA network runs on a much higher frequency and could easily be affected by a lesser quality and gauge cable.

Also, as you mention, all connections should be 'snug', at the very least. Grab a 7/16" wrench and 'snug' every connector. Snug means tight to the point where they just stop turning with the slightest pressure on the shortest wrench you can find. They don't need to be any tighter or you can start causing more harm. From 'finger tight' you will probably find most connections will go about 1/8th of a turn more. That is 'snug'.

The fact that components have been moved means connections could have come loose so it's a good idea to go over all of them with the wrench. I do like your idea of using spacers on the drop amp for 'cooling airflow' so please don't think I don't appreciate what you are trying to do.

Fair point, the components were hanging loose so yes you are correct and yes I did change the cable.

Sorry but saying that because someone that's not a Shaw tech touched the components is the cause of the problem is silly in my opinion. There are only so many (few) ways it can go wrong, most of which are mechanical in nature and pretty easy to determine visually, ie is moca filter installed in correct place, is cable/connector under strain etc. In hindsite, posting about this was silly on my part.

The contractor did NOT disconnect anything, I checked that all connections were at least hand tight after his work, all were tighter.

He mounted the drop amp and the modem in a way that there was no strain on any of the cables etc. I've trained him on that where data cabling is concerned so he does have some idea on how to properly mount things.

I changed the 1 cable. Maybe that was the cause of the problem, maybe not. <shrug>. It's working fine now. If the problem(s) reoccurs, I'll revisit it then, for now, all seems fine.

Personally overall my biggest concern is the changing layout by each shaw tech, each one says the last guy didn't do it right....

Actually all the connections were more than snug, they were TIGHT.

The tech today explicitly mentioned that he'd forgotten to tighten them and had a second go round with the wrench.

Thanks for the wrench size info, that was something I wanted to ask about specifically.

Getting the moca filter off to replace the patch cable involved bruised knuckles since I only had a couple of (large) self adjusting wrenches and like I mentioned above, it was pretty tightly screwed on.

As to the cabling itself, I've no way to tell one from the other (RG6 or RG56 coax with an RG59) other than the original was thicker and 18 gauge while the one I swapped in was 20 gauge. If this was cat5 cabling, no problem.

I have been through that same problem with different techs before too. A series of them each say the previous one did something incorrectly and then goes into a diatribe as to why it is wrong. At some point you have to wonder if any of them know what they are talking about despite all of them sounding confident in their convictions.

The bottom line is, these Gateway systems are 'finicky' at best so the less messing around after the install the better.

When you say '18 and 20 gauge', if you are referring to the center copper conductor in the coax, that is one way of determining the cable type. Typically the smaller gauge is RG58 or RG59 and the larger gauge is RG6 or RG56. Another thing you might notice is the white insulating material around the center conductor is thicker or wider on the cables with the larger center wire. All of this is important to the frequency carrying ability of the cable.

As previously mentioned, the Gateway system cabling is more critical due to the MoCA network and should be using the larger cabling. Replacing the larger cable with smaller cabling is not recommended. This is why I suggested you have the Shaw Tech place components where you want them or at least tell him where you want to put them after he leaves and that way you can get him to at least provide you with cabling of suitable length when he is making the connections. Most of the Techs I have had here have been more than happy to accommodate my requests for this kind of thing.

When you say '18 and 20 gauge', if you are referring to the center copper conductor in the coax, that is one way of determining the cable type. Typically the smaller gauge is RG58 or RG59 and the larger gauge is RG6 or RG56. Another thing you might notice is the white insulating material around the center conductor is thicker or wider on the cables with the larger center wire. All of this is important to the frequency carrying ability of the cable.

As previously mentioned, the Gateway system cabling is more critical due to the MoCA network and should be using the larger cabling. Replacing the larger cable with smaller cabling is not recommended. This is why I suggested you have the Shaw Tech place components where you want them or at least tell him where you want to put them after he leaves and that way you can get him to at least provide you with cabling of suitable length when he is making the connections. Most of the Techs I have had here have been more than happy to accommodate my requests for this kind of thing.
I am refering to the labeling on the cable itself, the cable I pulled out was the exception, everything else was 20gauge Flex 59 cabling, (RG59 I assume). The short piece I removed says

JN2912071 SHAW > 9900963 CM, CMG, FT4, CATV c(ETL)us 18 AWG COMMSCOPE 2011 BrightWire XP (TM) XpressPrep (TM) 518FT

As per data cabling, most of that makes sense, but I don't see any mention of what kind of RG cabling it is.

It wasn't until long after the tech was gone and I'd removed the cable that I realized it was different than all the other cables. And the only reason I really noticed it was I had a look at the cable again after the gateway went down yesterday.

Looking at the 18 gauge and the 20 gauge cabling, yes the internal insulation layer is larger but so is the internal conductor.

Also I'm pretty sure that prior to the last tech's work, it was ALL 20 gauge. As I didn't notice any difference in cabling size when I was documenting the changes made on tuesday prior to the friday visit. However I wasn't explicitly looking so hard to be 100% sure.

Actually I didn't quite know where I wanted them and I'm also used to the Shaw tech's leaving extra cabling just in case you want to move stuff around, it was after he left and things had been mounted that I realized the interconnect from the drop amp to the 3 way splitter was too short.

You can see here

http://pdscc.com/troubleshooting2/PC240001.JPG

that it's a tad cramped in the area where all the gear is installed and due to that placement of each item is somewhat resticted to allow the cables to be unimpeded.

I hope that is an old picture and isn't how it is now as I can see 4 problems right off the bat.

Is it necessary for a tech to install this Gateway & Portal? I read in some post it takes 3 hours?? What are they doing exactly? I thought you just plug in your coax and then to your HDTV via HDMI and off you go.

See this post from the page preceding this one in this same thread: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1366329&postcount=195

I hope that is an old picture and isn't how it is now as I can see 4 problems right off the bat.
Please share, I'm sure there will be some overlap in my "what still needs to be done" list and your "4 things".

not grounded
using a 59 jumper for the modem
using a 59 jumper to feed the amp
open spigot on the amp
half of an old cse left under stairs
extremely messy
...

Thanks for pointing out the ones I missed, cdncableguy. I didn't quite know how to respond as I really thought that must have been an old photo. It looks like NONE of the people who have been working on this installation really know what they are doing. That or they don't have the proper parts or maybe they just don't care?

sibble-comp, I would be calling Shaw and asking for a senior Tech visit. There are just so many things wrong with your install.

not grounded
using a 59 jumper for the modem
using a 59 jumper to feed the amp
open spigot on the amp
half of an old cse left under stairs
extremely messy
...

- Item 1 and 2 - that's how the cables came, I didn't change any other than the single piece noted previously.

- item 3 - I was wondering about that, that seemed kinda strange

- item 4 - not sure what you mean by that one - are you refering to the cat3 punch down block? Or the wall mounted grey box in the top left?

- item 5 - this was pass 1, if I hadn't had any issues, I would have tied down and cleaned up the cable routing substantially, also adding appropriate labels.

I learned long ago with datacomm and telecomm wiring that as soon as you thought your were done and had everything tied down, there was always something else that needed to be accounted for :-( ie don't count your chickens before they (fully) hatch.

Thanks for pointing out the ones I missed, cdncableguy. I didn't quite know how to respond as I really thought that must have been an old photo. It looks like NONE of the people who have been working on this installation really know what they are doing. That or they don't have the proper parts or maybe they just don't care?

sibble-comp, I would be calling Shaw and asking for a senior Tech visit. There are just so many things wrong with your install.
Please give specifics that I can go back to shaw with Jetranger.

Interestingly enough, the tuesday visit that saw the drpp amp installed was supposed to be a senior tech (Thank's to Shaw Guru for getting that organized). After showing him everything and the notes from one of the Shaw backend guys indicating additional runs were needed (he'd already seen this info) he went out to the external and internal demarcs and tested signals, then tested signal in the upstairs room and hooked up another 2 way splitter between the modems, tested signal again and indicated that it was out of spec 56 or 57db if I remember correctly and that drop amp would be needed in the upstairs room with the modem, gateway, portal, and analog devices. He indicated that he doesn't carry amp's and I think he said only the service techs do, can't quite remember. He called for his forman who brought one over about 20 minutes later. The foreman was a bit surprised about the number of devices and the complexity of my setup. They both went away for a while and I could hear them going outside several times and the first tech came upstairs a bunch of times, checking signals etc. About 20-30 minutes later, they called me down to the internal demarc and said they were done, there were good signals for both modems, gateway and portal etc. I tested the new modem, gateway playback, live tv and VoD, all fine.

At that point the drop amp was just hanging loosely as I indicated I'd wait for the other modem to be installed on friday before mounting anything. It looked pretty nightmarish at the time, far worse than my picture shows after my first pass in cleaning things up.

This was covered in post

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1365427&postcount=188

I asked the foreman about what to tell the friday modem tech and he said "they'd figure it out" when they came.

Then Friday a different tech came to install the second modem, as I noted before he said the DPT shouldn't go through the drop amp and bypassed it for both that and the new modem.

What's also interesting is he removed one of the moca filters that was on the line-in from the external demarc and also left the one "spigot" on the amp unused. Each of the last 3 or 4 visits by shaw techs has resulted in changes in the number and positioning of the moca filters. At this point I am down to 1 from I think a maximum of 3 from about 6-8 weeks ago.

This comes back to my comment (and Jetranger's) about tech's "fixing" the last tech's work and saying the previous guy didn't do it right :-(

Shaw Guru, can you get into the discussion here?

The eventual setup will have the power bars split, one going to a 700va ups and the other direct to the wall.

The UPS will run the DPT and the Drop amp, everything else will just be surge protected.

I may also put in surge protection on the CATV input from the external demarc, but that's going to require much more research to determine a Shaw approved CATV surge suppressor which doesn't impact all the other signals already on the line.

A better choice would be to have Shaw install that in the external demarc, though I am not sure if there is even enough room for such a device there, nor whether Shaw even offers such a device/installation service.

The one portal in the spare bedroom already runs through the CATV surge suppressor on the APC power bar in that room. That had to be done to cleanup some (likely caused by) ground loop interference with the speaker system.

So maybe not such a big deal after all.....

not grounded
using a 59 jumper for the modem
using a 59 jumper to feed the amp
...
Interesting now that the cabling's been brought to my attention, I had a look upstairs in the main room and spare room. Spare room is using the 20 gauge wire, while the main room is mostly the heavier 18 gauge wiring up to the splitters and then in most cases it's the 20 AWG, though the gateway itself along with the upstairs modem are both on 18 AWG directly.

Should I be requesting ALL cabling be replaced across the board with 18 AWG? Is that really going to make a difference?

Why would you put your DPT on a UPS when it has it's own built in? Do you have a lot of long power outages there? Your UPS should supply your Gateway and amp if you really want it to be of use. Of course you would need a UPS on each TV/Portal that you wanted to watch, if you are wanting to watch during power interruptions.

cdncableguy has already pointed out all the things I noticed and a couple more. It sounds like you need a full-on 'commercial installation consultation' as you are certainly doing more in your home than most typical installs do. There needs to be a sit down with you to determine just what your needs are and then Shaw needs to figure out how to properly address your install. They then need to make certain they have the correct components; drop amps, splitters, or even run a second feed or drop from the trunk, before I would let anyone else touch your setup.

The way they keep sending different people out every few days is just insane.

The reason they keep sending people out is for additional installs ;-)

Each new install seems to break or affect the previous install. In the past 2 months, I think there has only been 1 or 2 service calls explicitly for gateway issues.

Why DPT on the UPS? Because I can ;-P

We have had 2-3 day power outages here before, back a few years ago when we had the ice storms. It's prudent to be prepared for that sort of thing again considering the weather reports that indicate Western Canada can expect a lot of colder weather this year, though at the moment, they seem to be pretty far off on those predictions....

Second the DPT's battery backup only lasts 6 or 12 hours as I remember it, not even long enough for a single day outage. This also has implications for the alarm systen.

I already have the gateway on it's own UPS (I have at least 6 of various capacities spread throughout the house) as I get them with dead batteries for free or very cheap, get batteries replaced and I am golden.

That same ups also handles my mythtv machine which is configured to powerdown automatically in an extended outage.

I don't give a crap about watching TV during an outage, who does that, I mean IMO, that's just silly. There are better things to do at that point, like read a book, talk, go for a walk etc.

Personally I don't think I need a commercial installation consultant, what I need is someone from Shaw that listens when I show them and explain the setup and then acts accordingly based on that. I have no plans to make any more changes to my services at this point. All the equipment I need/want for the foreseeable future is in place. Basically a tech that can work on the aggregate rather than just individual pieces. Though you've made a good point, I'll look into scheduling someone from Shaw that can look at optimizing the entire system as a whole.

I've taken to printing a text description of the setup and handing it to the Shaw tech as they walk in the door. In pretty much all cases they give it a cursory glance and then ignore it. I think I'll make a nice visio diagram as one of my year end projects.

Honestly when I look at the complexity of my system, it's pretty minor when I look at some of the setups of my C level client's homes/condos using Shaw services.

Putting aside all the foregoing, everything appears to be working perfectly fine at this point <fingers crossed that I don't jinx it and drop the WAF into the toilet>