: CLOSED — Shaw Gateway: Code update to iS2 & iS2+ (See final post)
2011-12-27, 10:27 PM
WOW crazy issues!
It seems a lot have MoCA communications issues! Is it possible to use the ethernet port on it and not use MoCA? I wonder if it's MoCA filter related. How has the Shaw installers used MoCA filters in your guys deployments?
Here is a great video on MoCA filters and POE.
If the installers don't use the filters properly and the cable isn't good enough you can have serious MoCA communication issues!!!
I'd also check all my f-cons and wall plates. Cables that worked with NTSC/CATV signals/carriers might not work with MoCA. One screwy shorting f-con that had no affect on DOCSIS or QAM can cause major issues for MoCA and due to the networks nature all it takes is one screwy segment or connector! :(
2011-12-27, 10:37 PM
I'd bet money they are placing the POE filter at the pedestal or drop amp. In areas like Calgary it's a green pole/box up to 300' away from your house. This means your MoCA signal is traveling the 50-300' feet to the pedestal/drop amp!
The POE filter should be right at the CP demarc or their basement passives location!
DON'T USE THEM AT THE DROP AMP!!!
You guys with issues I'd get MoCA POE filters and place them on any non MoCA devices including your cable modem and phone E-MTA and any TVs connected to CATV/NTSC for analog television or ANY non Gateway STBs like the Motorolas!!!
All it takes is one device without a POE that's injecting interference to cause major MoCA packet loss and communications issues!
I would filter MoCA at the demarc with a MoCA bonding block and have the RG6 segments for DOCSIS and E-MTA not even carry MoCA signals! As an installer I'd go as far as to pull another RG6 segment to cable modem local to do this... If RF level isn't an issue even though I did that I'd still place MoCA POE filters on ANY non MoCA devices (anything but an Arris Gateway box) connected to my house RG6 cabling!!!
2011-12-27, 10:46 PM
Excellent video but it does have one error in it: a MoCA splitter does not have to be at the POE in the home but rather the POE of the 'television cabling system' of the home. Shaw will typically split off both phone and internet before the TV portion and that is the 'demarcation point' where the MoCA filter or MoCA splitter should be placed.
It just makes sense when you think about it and since the video is strictly talking MoCA and not cable internet or phone, they don't differentiate them.
half of my recorded programs disappeared.Been there. Done that. THREE TIMES!!!! One time I lost 400+ programs.
Disconnect power from everything for a few minutes. Apply power to the gateway. Wait few minutes. Reapply power to your portals. Wait. It may take up to 24hrs to happen but eventually all your programs should magically return.
No-one at Shaw even acknowledges this happens. It seems it takes the system a very long time to "reindex" the hard drive. :rolleyes:
2011-12-27, 11:54 PM
Jetranger did shaw place POE on your DCX3400 and DCT6412PIII STBs? I'd place POE filters on ANY non MoCA devices! even if they are split before a demarc POE/TV leg of the cabling!
If I get the system in the future it will only be if I can use the ethernet part of it because I don't need MoCA! I bet Shaw in their wisdom have disabled the ethernet PVR sharing ability !?!
If my house had shotty cabling or RG59 I won't even bother with MoCA!
2011-12-28, 01:29 PM
Disconnect power from everything for a few minutes. Apply power to the gateway. Wait few minutes. Reapply power to your portals. Wait. It may take up to 24hrs to happen but eventually all your programs should magically return.Thanks cavu! As my wife is home and we are both reading books now is a good time for the power cycle.
2011-12-28, 01:49 PM
HiroPro, no, there is only one MoCA filter in my installation and it's at the output of the two way splitter that feeds my TVs. The other leg feeds my internet. I used to have Shaw Phone and a three way splitter but both of those went away at the end of the 12 month promotion back in September.
In the initial diagrams and pictures provided by Shaw Champ in the original gateway thread, it shows MoCA filters would be located wherever any non-MoCA equipment would be connected.
By the time they got to me, and it wasn't long after the trial launch started, they had determined the STBs could co-exist with the Gateway and therefore only the one MoCA filter at POE was needed, or at least that is how it was explained to me at the time. It would be interesting to see if placing additional filters on the non-MoCA STBs would have any effect but I don't think Shaw is handing them out upon request.
Additionally, I believe the 'ethernet pvr' ability will happen with the next full code update.
2011-12-28, 03:24 PM
I'd place filters on the other STBs anyway...
Hey it's my understanding that the Gateway uses cablecard!
Does this mean shaw will allow cablecard tuners for PCs in the future !?!
After all the problems with the pace box that I had and I'm guessing were largly due to it having less memory than later pace boxes (and which shaw refused to swap out with one with more memory) I swapped it for a portal and got the new gateway system which I am very happy with (especially with no longer being limited to just 2 tuners) except for the skip issue. About 25% of the time there's basically no lag at all and it's great, but that only lasts for 10 or so key presses and then it's a pain in the ass having to deal with delay's again that sometimes last long enough to bring up the connection error message.
In my situation the cable from the street connects to a 2 way splitter that feeds my cable modem and a 4 port amp. 3 of the amp ports feed analog channels to regular TV's and the 4th port connects to a MoCA filter attached to a 3 way splitter that connects to my gateway and 2 portals. After reading what HiroPro said about placing MoCA filters on any non MoCA devices, I'm wondering if at least one on the cable modem may help, although it would also be nice to try one on each of the 3 runs to the analog TV's, but I doubt shaw would be willing to provide extra filters to try this and from past experience have little faith most services tech's would even be willing to give this a try.
Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone has had any success using extra filters to improve the delay issue and where they obtained the filters if it did.
2011-12-28, 04:40 PM
bls, What good would putting a filter on your modem do? The location of the one you have prevents any MoCA signals from getting to anything else that is connected, that's what they do.
HiroPro, No, the cable cards are married to the Gateway boxes and Shaw will not support them in any other configuration. Also, what's with all your exclamation points(!)?
Jetranger (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/member.php?u=45144) - I basically agree with you, but HiroPro mentioned for those with problems that placing MoCA filters on any non MoCA devices may help if one of the non MoCA devices was injecting interference and causing MoCA packet loss and communications issues. Extra filters wouldn't make sense if filters were perfect, but they aren't of course and if the level of the interfering signal from one of the non MoCA devices is high enough, enough interferance could make it through a single filter to cause problems. In fact, while programming the gateway and portals the service tech that did my install actually used a filter that was much larger than the one he left connected when he left and explained the reason was that the larger filter was much better at reducing interference from the modem and incoming cable and made updating the gateway and portal software much faster, but otherwise the smaller filter was good enough (although I now wonder if it really is).
2011-12-28, 06:07 PM
You do not need mocha filters on equipment outside of the mocha network. It sdoesn't make sense to need one as the filter that feeds the splitter containing all mocha equipment should have one on the input
2011-12-28, 10:30 PM
yeah it shouldn't be necessary for devices outside the MoCA network. It would be interesting to see if the l-band signal from MoCA on the filtered side makes it into the bounce side.
One could test this with a Satlook NIT etc Spec sat analyzer as MoCA uses frequencies in that band. I'd like to see a MoCA device on the filtered leg broadcast and see if it makes it through the filter into the MoCA side.
When I was talking about using POEs filters on device F81 ports was only devices within the MoCA network like non MoCA STB or analog TVs. It should be standard operating procedure to do that. The debate is whether to place it on the tap/amp or the device.
If you guys are looking for a decent MoCA amp with all that stuff integrated and taps for cable modems and DTH (get the zero dB return models) the company that put those videos together seem to have decent looking product.
The way shaw is doing it how you're getting passive return and that amp of yours could cause issues in the MoCA band if it's not MoCA certified.
Does a CATV amplifier affect the performance of the MoCA bridge?
Yes. A CATV amplifier can block or interfere with the MoCA signal and cause the MoCA bridge to malfunction. Avoid placing an amplifier in the path of the MoCA nodes unless it properly bypasses the MoCA frequencies (850 to 1525 MHz) or use a MoCA-compatible amp.
That came from the Q and A of an industry blog.
2011-12-28, 11:54 PM
HiroPro, You seem to have a lot of technical knowledge. I think you should contact Shaw Engineering directly and discuss the methods they are employing. It might benefit everyone if the points you raise are valid. I don't know enough about the finer aspects of the MoCA network specs but it seems you do. I have already been told you raise some interesting points.
One thing I wouldn't be doing is swapping out random splitters/amps especially given that there are big internal differences such as the active or passive passing.
2011-12-29, 12:33 AM
At about 2 minutes past 6pm this evening, while watching a recording of the early news, my entire Gateway system crashed, completely. I checked that I still had service on my Moto 3400 and all was fine so I knew it wasn't the cable. The screen showed the 'not subscribed' message on ALL channels and NO recordings what so ever.
I had to power cycle the Gateway and Portals twice and even the Expander once. After the first power cycle the Expander still wasn't being recognized as the 'recording space' showed 94% full. All returned to normal after the second full power cycle.
This is the first time I have experienced such a major crash since getting the system just about 6 months ago now.
2011-12-29, 12:39 AM
I just had the Shaw gateway and two portals installed a couple weeks ago. I'm tech savvy, but don't know much about MoCA other than what I've learned reading these forums.
When the installer arrived, I explained how everything was connected which included a 4 way splitter/signal booster (Motorola BDA-100S4). The booster helped a lot with my old PVR. The installer said the signal booster would not work with MoCA and replaced it with a 3 way splitter. The portals were kind of jittery when he was done, but he said that usually goes away usually within a day or so. It actually got worse. The audio was often out of sync with the video and sometimes I didn't get any audio at all until I reset the portal. The video would also get very pixelated and blocky and sometimes a channel would just stop working. I couldn't watch live TV on the second portal at all, although it seemed to play recordings ok. The day after the installer left, I had already reboot the gateway and portals at least half a dozen times. I had to leave town for a few days, so I just left it as is since I didn't really have time to watch TV anyway.
Last night I went through all of the connections and put the signal booster back in. I don't seem to have any MoCA filters, although I live in a condo, so they might be somewhere in the line before it gets to my suite. The line into the suite now goes into the signal booster and then one output goes into the 3 way splitter that Shaw provided and into the gateway and 2 portals. The second line from the booster goes to my radios for FM, although FM doesn't seem to work at all anymore. I'm not using the third and forth outputs on the booster right now. I don't think the booster should be interfering with MoCA since the network should be between the gateway and the two portals (if I understand it right), and that all goes through the 3 way splitter provided by Shaw.
The gateway and portals have been working flawlessly since I put the booster back in. It's only been 24 hours, but the audio seems to stay in sync with the video, I haven't lost audio and I haven't had to reboot either portal or the gateway. I bought the signal booster a few years ago after having pixelation problems with my previous PVR (DCT-6412) and it fixed those problems too.
By flawlessly, I mean the picture and sound is near perfect. I still have the same issues as everyone else with the UI and also the fact that the screen saver wants to kick in before the hockey game is finished. There needs to be a way to either disable or lengthen the timeout for the screen saver.
2011-12-29, 01:01 AM
Been a Gateway user for about 45 days. Before that I was on basic cable, but they turned off the expanded channels in my neighborhood eff Dec 9, forcing me to get something.
Anyway, I went to BestBuy today and bought a legacy box, the DCX3400.
I'm tired of the slowness... the freezes... the unresponsiveness. Done. Drives the wife crazy.
So now we have 2 DCX DVR's, working perfectly (with the crappier looking guide).
I'm contractually obligated to pay for the Gateway system for 3 years; so I'll box it up and come back here from time to time to see if they have updated the firmware to a point where it's useable.
2011-12-29, 01:59 AM
VanRob, it does sound like you might have a weak signal coming into your unit but Shaw should be providing you with the correct Amp to improve it. Having two unused connections coming out of the amp is not a good thing. If you call Shaw and explain what you did and the effect it had, I'm sure they will send out a tech to install the correct amp and splitters for you. It is possible the MoCA filter was installed in a central distribution room but you should have the next tech check that too.
pei_boy, you might be 'contractually obligated' to make payments for the next 3 years but you do own the Gateway equipment so you could sell it if you don't want to hang onto it. Just a suggestion for you.
2011-12-29, 09:20 AM
The two unused connections on my booster have terminators on them. The only reason the FM radios are still connected despite the fact that FM radio doesn't seem to work anymore is because I couldn't find the third terminator for the booster.
As far as calling Shaw and asking them to install the correct amp and splitters, I don't think that will happen. Calling Shaw is a very time consuming process (it's actually the reason I found these forums). Nobody showed up for my first installation appointment and Shaw basically had to bribe me into giving them a second chance. I have called them once since getting the new system and it took over 2 hours to find out there was no way to disable the screen saver. If I lose picture or sound quality again, I'll call them, but since things seem to be working right now, there's no point.
These forums are great. I'll come here to find out about bugs or new features on the gateway and portals. Calling Shaw is a last resort. The people I have talked to at Shaw including the installer have been very friendly and helpful but it takes way too long to get through to anyone there.
Someone asked about whether they needed Shaw internet for this system to work. You definitely do not need internet from Shaw to use this service. I get my internet and phone through Telus. Shaw only provides TV service for me.
2011-12-29, 12:35 PM
I'd place POE filters on ANY non MoCA devices! even if they are split before a demarc POE/TV leg of the cabling!
Given that each Moca filter is on order of $30, that'd add up cost wise pretty quickly...