WUHF in Rochester uses RF 28. Also WUAB in Cleveland is on RF 28. So I am thinking its one of the two then.

I think TVO may have to bite the bullet and put up a microwave (or fiber) link on at least on this leg.

Hmm. If they ran a fiber from Toronto to Chatham and then put an antenna in London to pick up that broadcast, that would greatly improve reliability, as the signal would never have to go more than one hop. They could also have redundant antennas pointing between London and Paris so that if the primary link to either of those locations goes down, they can switch to the backup link. Windsor would still only have one link though. Alternately they could have the fiber link to London as it is the larger market and it would provide for future expansion to the north.

I wonder how TVO HD is fed to these cities on cable systems? Do you get TVO HD in Ottawa on Rogers? Maybe they could (or have) worked out a deal with Rogers...

TVO already has a fiber link to Ottawa (it was part of the original plan). I know Rogers had TVO in HD before they started broadcasting OTA in HD (the cable infrastructure was paid for by Rogers) so TVO may be using that link (I don't know though). What cable cos do KW, London and Windsor have? Do they have TVO in HD?

London has Rogers.
Waterloo has Rogers.
Windsor has Cogeco.
Chatham has Cogeco.

IDK if any of you have noticed, but TVO is pretty much 480i full time in London, Chatham and Windsor.
Yes, if you read the last page of posts you'll the see the discussion.

Uh oh! Looks like TVO is pulling a CBC and shutting down all of their remaining analogue OTA transmitters without converting them to digital :/



2. Analog over-the-air Transmission

TVO will be moving forward with a plan to decommission our analog OTA transmitters over the next 18 months. We operate 100 analog low-powered relay television (LPRT) transmitters and 14 analog medium/high power transmitters that deliver the TVO signal over-the-air.

These analog transmitters serve an estimated 1% of Ontario households. More than 90% of Canadian households subscribe to cable or satellite, and online and mobile media consumption are growing fast. Given the very small number of analog OTA viewers, the current fiscal reality and TVO’s need to reduce its reliance on Government grants, we do not have the means to convert our analog transmitters to digital or to spend our limited resources on maintaining our ageing equipment.

Low-powered relay television transmitters (LPRT)

The LPRT sites were installed in the late 1980s with special one-time funding as part of the Television Extension in Northern Ontario (TENO) initiative. A decade later, Direct to Home (DTH) satellite subscription services came to market with the ability to provide a broad selection of television programming services to the North. As a result of the increased choice, more than half of the originally installed TVO LPRTs have already been removed or transferred to the community at the request of the community.

TVO has reached out to every community that still has an LPRT transmitter to inform the community of our plans and to make arrangements for TVO technicians to come and remove our equipment. We have extended the option to each community to transfer ownership of the local transmitter tower and satellite dish. Many communities that formerly had TVO LPRT transmitters now use the tower for local wireless services.

Decommissioning work of the 100 LPRT sites will begin immediately, and it is anticipated that TVO will be able to decommission about 50 LPRT sites per year, completing the work by October 2013.

Medium/high power transmitters



On July 31, 2012 TVO will cease transmission at its 14 medium/high power sites, and then we will begin to decommission those sites. After July 31, 2012 over-the-air viewers in the following communities can receive TVO by subscribing to a local television service provider:


Bancroft channel 42
Hawkesbury channel 48
Huntsville channel 13
Kenora channel 44
Kingston channel 38
North Bay channel 6
Owen Sound channel 12
Parry Sound channel 42
Pembroke channel 29
Penetanguishene channel 51
Peterborough channel 18
Sault Ste. Marie channel 20
Sudbury channel 19
Timmins channel 7



If you have any questions about how this may relate to your community, please don’t hesitate to contact our Customer Relations team at asktvo@tvo.org or 1-800-463-6886. They are ready to help.


Read about it at: http://about.tvo.org/who-we-are/digital-over-air-transition


Dr. Sat

Regarding the LPRTs, transferring them to the communities if they want them is the right thing to do and I don't have a problem with them being decommissioned if the communities don't want them as they serve a very small population base and it is no longer cost effective to keep them operational.

I do have a problem with them shutting down all the remaining medium and high power transmitters however. Many of these serve very large population bases and them not being transitioned was based on rather arbitrary guidelines set by the CRTC. It seems rather crazy that Cloyne will have a TVO transmitter, but Sudbury, Kingston and Peterborough won't.

Some may argue that Kingston and Peterborough are served by the Belleville transmitter, but that is only for those with outdoor antennas. Many can't install one (especially those in urban areas) and a local transmitter is needed to receive it with an indoor antenna.

Add to this that TVO will show a very bad example for TFO with analog transmitters in Hawksbury & Pembroke, amongst other places.

I'd been asking for TFO and TVO to share resources in Ottawa, I can see their priorities are elsewhere.

I hope TFO won't do the same with is transmitter on channel 39, i will upgrade my antenna set-up to catch it better.
Actually, it's snowy, and i hope with a pre-amp it will be watchable....
a lot of good movies in the evening....

Add to this that TVO will show a very bad example for TFO with analog transmitters in Hawksbury & Pembroke, amongs other places.

The only other place TFO has a non LPRT transmitter is Sudbury. It would make sense for TVO and TFO to share a transmitter in those locations, even if one had to be 480p. Not sure if it is a good idea in a large market like Ottawa.

Interestingly its seems as if all of TFO's transmitters have similar parameters to the TVO transmitters at the same location.

It seems rather crazy that Cloyne will have a TVO transmitter, but Sudbury, Kingston and Peterborough won't.

At the SMPTE meeting last year when TVO rolled out its digital conversion plan, it was asked from audience why bother with Cloyne (which was previously in the 52 to 69 range). The response was that TVO was committed to access. Some commitment!! :mad:

Sudbury, Kingston and Peterborough all had the unfortunate circumstance to having channels in the 2 to 51 range and not being big enough to qualify for the CRTC mandatory market designation. :(

I was planning on making a donation in August to mark the anniversary of the digital conversion, but not anymore. :o

It is interesting that TVO is shutting down its 14 medium/high power sites on July 31, 2012, the same date as the CBC. Could the two be related somehow?

Sudbury, Kingston and Peterborough all had the unfortunate circumstance to having channels in the 2 to 51 range and not being big enough to qualify for the CRTC mandatory market designation. :(

More precisely, not provincial capitals, and not having at least two originating stations, in addition to being smaller than 300,000. Sudbury's only originating station is CTV, and Kingston and Peterborough's only originating stations are Corus CBC affiliates.
All other transmitters in these locations, like in London, are relays of Toronto stations.

Hamilton and Barrie qualified because they were considered part of the Toronto market. (Note that CITS is nominally licensed to Burlington, not Hamilton, even if it uses the same tower as CHCH. And the CRTC made some other omissions, for example the CBC transmitter in Kearns should have been considered part of the Noranda-Rouyn mandatory market.)

I was planning on making a donation in August to mark the anniversary of the digital conversion, but not anymore. :o

Feel free to let them know!

It is interesting that TVO is shutting down its 14 medium/high power sites on July 31, 2012, the same date as the CBC. Could the two be related somehow?

TVO is probably sharing tower space and operating costs with the CBC on most of these sites. With the CBC abandoning analogue OTA, they probably can't afford to continue paying operating costs for these sites (i.e. power, land tax, insurance, etc...) on their own.

^^^AFAIK, the CBC will need to keep the towers for their radio broadcasts. Unless the TV and radio equipment are housed separately, the CBC shutdown shouldn't affect them in that way.

Regarding the LPRTs, transferring them to the communities ...

The way I read it, it's not the LPRTs themselves that could be transferred to the communities, it's the tower and satellite dish at the LPRT sites.

There's something just not palatable about publicly run television stations/networks only being available to many people via a BDU . :(

I totally agree - maybe they should just sell the whole thing like they did in Saskatchewan. Only the private broadcasters will be broadcasting in rural Ontario now.. and they are still not getting subscriber fees..

Are rural Ontarian's getting tax credits for not getting equal service?

The way I read it, it's not the LPRTs themselves that could be transferred to the communities, it's the tower and satellite dish at the LPRT sites.

True. But the community could do whatever they want with them. I think TVO is assuming that they wouldn't want to pay to keep them opperating as is (which is probably true). They could use it to create a multicast service transmitter that broadcasts all the main networks (CBC, SRC, TVO, CTV, CTV2, Global and City). This would likely require some government funding and I don't know if there is appetite for that right now. I wonder if they could get money from one of the CRTC funds?

There's something just not palatable about publicly run television stations/networks only being available to many people via a BDU . :(

While I don't disagree, I also realize there has to be a limit. It is impossible to make it so everyone from coast to coast to coast can receive TV OTA. If you can't serve everyone, you have to set a limit somewhere. The current limit was set when there weren't any other options so everyone in these regions used OTA. Now that there are other options and many use them, we need to rethink where the bar should be set. We also need to look at other options (that may not have existed 30 years ago) for providing TV service to people in remote locations.

I agree with you Roger. The thing is the line is drawn way too high now. Kingston, Peterborough, Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie not having TVO is just about as bad as London, Saint John, and Saskatoon not having CBC.

One thing TVO and CBC have in common is the philosophy of "we can't convert them all, so we aren't going to convert ANY of them". :mad: