Roger1818 is reading my mind again. :D

In fairness to the author--despite his factual errors and questionable logic--CBC did take on a poor PQ following the switch to 720p. However, this has since been rectified by the CBC, and therefore had nothing to do with the change in resolution.

Hi Jase88

True the article was written in November, at the height of CBC's picture problems if I do recall correctly.

In any case, I was up at the cottage this weekend where I only get CBC and an analog CTV and was just thinking if only CBC had a setup like in the blog it would be pretty sweet.

Hi roger1818

"First of the decision to switch to 720p had nothing to do with Cable and satellite companies, like the author suggests, but a switch from fiber-optic to satellite distribution (as discussed thoroughly in this forum)."

Interesting. How does CTV and Global do it without reducing PQ? They stayed fiber?

Interesting. How does CTV and Global do it without reducing PQ? They stayed fiber?

It isn't difficult to transmit 1080I via satellite, but we can operate with fewer transponders using 720P. It is a significant amount of money saved, year after year.

Yet CBC OTA picture quality seems to have less resolution then several other 720P OTA stations and with the current quality level CBC could have combined both English and French on 1 transmitter saving alot more money.Also CBCs Toronto transmitter is only half block away from their studios and therefore could have a better quality feed.

Also CBCs Toronto transmitter is only half block away from their studios and therefore could have a better quality feed.

That's good for Toronto...what about everyone else?

As it happens, the CN Tower is fed via fibre, but the same signal goes elsewhere via satellite.

I think the placebo effect is in play here. Tell someone they are getting a different format and all of sudden it doesn't look as good.

The bottom line is one can nitpick either HD format with the typical arguments heard for over a decade; 720p doesn't have as much detail, 1080i has more motion artifacts, etc.

I've been watching over-the-air HDTV since 2000. In this area we have the the luxury of seeing a full 1080i feed with no subchannels from CBS. Direct comparison of CBS HD with CBC HD reveals that in my opinion both are of the highest quality broadcast HDTV available.

I agree, looks fine and always has here. beating a dead horse (http://katdish.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/beating-a-dead-horse-horse-demotivational-poster-1267844749.jpg)

Hey guys,

didn't mean to send us off on the whole picture quality thing, I was more interested in discussing the proposition of CBC using subchannels as proposed in the article (http://average-joe-consumer-product-reviews.blogspot.com/2011/11/shame-on-you-cbc.html).

We always hear that they are strapped for cash and people complain that there isn't enough variety or money-generating programming on there ... wouldn't having some subchannels (even ones that re-hash popular shows/docs or provide 24h children's' programming) help pay the bills and give taxpayers more bang for their buck? What are the costs associated to running a subchannel when you already have a transmitter up and why can't CBC be Canada's "subchannel flagship"?

I'd prefer the highest quality HD I can get from CBC as opposed to more subchannels, and make no mistake it's one or the other.

Further, programming subchannels to produce a profit has not been easily done by US stations.

And then of course there is the CRTC. While not completely opposed to the use of sub-channels, they want to see something innovative, and not just repackaging something already out there.

interdit_450, I have written to the CBC asking them to consider a subchannel solution to solve about half of their "analog extension" issues. For example, run SRC as a CBC subchannel in places like Windsor, Calgary, and Atlantic Canada while running CBC as a SRC subchannel in places like Quebec City, Sherbrooke, and Moncton.

The annual playoff hockey games vs. The National at regular time could be remedied by a subchannel.

Ken H, I hear what you're saying but at my location I have FOX 720p with a 480i subchannel and CBS 1080i with no subchannel. I imagine a hardcore videophile could spot deficiencies with FOX, but I sure can't (I actually prefer FOX's NFL as far as PQ goes) and I'd say I'm well up the percentiles at spotting things like this.

Hello Ken H,

I tend to agree with El Gran Chico. In Montreal (NDG) I can catch NBC from Plattsburg, NY at 1080i on 5.1 and THIS in 480i on 5.2

I can’t tell the difference between the NBC hockey feed as compared to CBC and even if I could, I doubt it would be noticeable enough to offset the benefit of having all the extra programming options of the THIS sub-channel.

Anyways, just saying - OTA programming options are pretty scarce in Canada, especially if you're not in range of the US border stations so a CBC sub-channel could go a long way for a lot of people, even if only in SD.

Let's move away from the 720p/1080i and sub-channel debates please. Both issues have been discussed ad nauseam. I doubt we'll reach any consensus on these issues now. Thank you.

Just want to chime in here to raise my hand about this issue.

Neither of my LG's see their EPG. Along with TVO they are doing something different. Why is it so many stations can do this easily but others not?

:confused:
I'm betting that some tuners aren't happy with TVCT not being in the stream (see post 48 of this thread). That seems to be the one thing that's different in CBLT's PSIP versus other channels in the Toronto/Hamilton/Buffalo area.

CBLFT also doesn't have TVCT, but it doesn't have EIT/ETT either.

nahh. I don't think it's that simple. Even before the transition, back in January and June 2011 I saw TVCT in their stream just fine (I just looked again), but their EPG never worked on my LG TV, nor my Zenith DTT-901 CECB even back then. Their EPG has never worked on either of them two devices that I have here.

Neither device has any problem with any other station's epg as long as epg is actually being sent.

nahh. I don't think it's that simple. Even before the transition, back in January and June 2011 I saw TVCT in their stream just fine (I just looked again), but their EPG never worked on my LG TV, nor my Zenith DTT-901 CECB even back then. Their EPG has never worked on either of them two devices that I have here.

Neither device has any problem with any other station's epg as long as epg is actually being sent.
You are probably right. That alone is likely too simple. Although I noticed in MGT, BOTH TVCT and CVCT appear.

Cable VCT (0002) on PID 0x1ffb
Terrestrial VCT (0000) on PID 0x1ffb

Maybe some tuners trip over that?!?

I also spotted another thing unique about CBLT's PSIP regarding EIT and ETT (where the program guide data lives). I need a bit more time to analyze it before I post it.

One thing for sure, when compared side-by-side with other stations, CBLT's PSIP has some unique contents.

Ok, here's another unique thing I found with CBLT's PSIP. It uses PIDs (packet ID) 0x1000 to 0x1037 for EIT (EIT-0 to EIT-55, 7 days worth) and PIDs 0x1080 to 0x10B7 for ETT, but EIT-0 does not have a static PID. Right now (Friday from 8 to 11 pm EDT) it's 0x100B, from 5 to 8pm it was 0x100A, and when I wrote the post above it was 0x1009.

That is, when the current EIT/ETT expires, EIT-0 and so on move down the line 1 position and the "former EIT-0" PID becomes the new EIT-55. (Same thing happens for ETT).

All other stations appear to ALWAYS use the lowest PID in the range for EIT-0 (and also ETT-0).

I wonder if this is what's tripping up some tuners? :confused:

That sounds like it could be the deal to me...
Has always been that way far as I can tell based on older pre/post transition dumps of CBLT.
One thing to do would be to keep an eye on it to track if / when EIT-0 bubbles up to be the first EIT PID. When it does, check our TVs to see if they magically work.

But a wrench I can see with that theory is that WUTV which does work, is similar.
But that may be because EIT 4 thru 11 are for it's subchannel and not the main?
let's check that.

edit: nope, not the case. it's subchannel, TCN is scattered throughout the EITs, including EIT-0.


WUTV
Terrestrial VCT (0000) on PID 0x1ffb
EIT-4 (0104) on PID 0x1d00
EIT-5 (0105) on PID 0x1d01
EIT-6 (0106) on PID 0x1d02
EIT-7 (0107) on PID 0x1d03
EIT-8 (0108) on PID 0x1d04
EIT-9 (0109) on PID 0x1d05
EIT-10 (010a) on PID 0x1d06
EIT-11 (010b) on PID 0x1d07
EIT-0 (0100) on PID 0x1d08
EIT-1 (0101) on PID 0x1d09
EIT-2 (0102) on PID 0x1d0a
EIT-3 (0103) on PID 0x1d0b
Event ETT-0 (0200) on PID 0x1e00
Event ETT-1 (0201) on PID 0x1e01
Event ETT-2 (0202) on PID 0x1e02
Event ETT-3 (0203) on PID 0x1e03
Event ETT-4 (0204) on PID 0x1e04
Event ETT-5 (0205) on PID 0x1e05
Event ETT-6 (0206) on PID 0x1e06
Event ETT-7 (0207) on PID 0x1e07
Event ETT-8 (0208) on PID 0x1e08
Event ETT-9 (0209) on PID 0x1e09
Event ETT-10 (020a) on PID 0x1e0a
Event ETT-11 (020b) on PID 0x1e0b
Channel ETT (0004) on PID 0x1e80
RRT with rating_region 1 (0301) on PID 0x1ffb

Going on a semi-related subject here.

So, we learned yesterday that the CBC Corporation will face budget cuts of $115 Million over a 3-years period.

Back in summer 2011, the CBC received an extention from converting retransmitters in mandatory cities, stating they'd prefer keep the money to invest in programming quality. On their website, they publicly stated they don't believe in OTA anymore, prefering a cable/satellite subscription. Concerning the 1-year extention, it's clear they'll request for another year extention.

So, budget cuts aftermaths, it looks like they'll keep higher up management intact (6 digits salaries), cut off 700 jobs (5 digits salaries), and neglect the transition to digital for the medium-size markets transmitters. I guess we see this plan happening.