I understand your frustrations. I lost two VHFs until they raised their power. Please resist the temptation to accuse the operators of new VHF DTVs of incompetence or engaging in skullduggery of some sort. Give them the data they need to fix the modelling assumptions.

I completely agree. Tempering frustrations and providing facts will hopefully help everyone come out ahead. Now, if only their website wasn't down ;)

Out of curiousity, how was your analog reception before transition?
Tgf,

Obviously it would vary with conditions...
With Analog they classify the signal quality as Grade A, B, C, and D.
There are technical measurements for each classification, but for the end user it's kinda like asking a Ham Radio Operator "how do you read". It can be very subjective...
But without getting technical, I'd guess it was probably somewhere between C & D Most of the time... Between A&B during extreme ducting.
One of the better analog Canadian stations, 2nd only to TVO.
And of course it also was prone to the same local impulse noise and other trash that I see during the daytime. That's all on my end though, not theirs.

Wasn't there documented decent Hi-VHF reception for the old Channel Master 4228? I think it was due to the big reflector fence on the back of the unit.

I think the expectation of pulling in a VHF station at low power from 80 km away without a VHF antenna was always a pipedream.

Hearing the results in Mississauga for pulling in CHCH makes me a little more optimistic about pulling in CFTO from 20kms with a UHF antenna.

If anyone feels like it, the wikipedia entry on CHCH-TV needs updating. I don't think I could provide a neutral edit at this time. :(
Changed my mind and made an edit, but did not mention the apparent signal coverage drop as it is inappropriate at this time, and DH is the place for those comments.

I'm putting it here, because I figure that they will probably take it down...

I am an over the air signal receiver in Mississauga. I have an HDTV. I have a ClearStream 2 antenna. I am "ready" for the digital changeover. CHCH transitioned over 3 days ago. I now have no signal. I have rescanned and rescanned and nothing. I didn't expect to be receiving fewer stations after transition. I am not happy and will not be "forced" into paying for TV on cable or satellite, (how dare you be so bold as to try to force viewers to do that).

See here for many more upset viewers: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1298979#post1298979

CHCH get your act together and fix it.
Your ClearStream 2 is a UHF only antenna so you need to add to or upgrade your antenna system in order to receive VHF as well. However, based from experience, you might still pickup enough signal even with a UHF only antenna to pickup VHF as well if your antenna is rooftop mounted. Is your antenna currently mounted on the roof? If so, do you have a 1 story or 2 storey home?

FYI, I did an install of a 4 bay UHF antenna in northern Brampton which is much further away than Mississaga to the CHCH tower on the day they switched to VHF 11.1 and the signal was coming in fine. The antenna was mounted on the peak of a 2 story house just to give you an idea of where the antenna needs to be installed to have a chance of getting CHCH using a UHF only antenna. A preamp that has good VHF performance such as the CM7777 would also help you.

Changed my mind and made an edit, but did not mention the apparent signal coverage drop as it is inappropriate at this time, and DH is the place for those comments.

Good man. I'm sure that an independent television station like CHCH doesn't care how they reach their viewership. I'm sure they're not satisfied with these reception results either.

Just an update on my reception in Kitchener using ANT-7288 8bay with Cm7777 preamp
I found the new 11.1 signal had moved about 30 or 40 degrees south west from were 18.1 was strongest.
So on my Channel Master Rotator the signal 18.1 used to be strongest when display showed approx 100 now the 11.1 signal is strongest at around 142
11.1 Comes in early morning for the last 2 days before 8AM at about SNR of between 13 to 17 with lots of drop outs then after 8am nothing just like clock work.
Hope this is useful to some others out there.
They need to kick up the power

jds... Any better at night? Say between 8PM to 8 AM?

I don't know when it starts coming in I usually shutdown the TV's at 11:30PM
and it was not coming in before that as I keep checking hoping something has changed.
Buffalo has been great since the CHCH change over 2.1, 4.1, 7.1 all start coming in around 8PM and start dropping out between 9AM and 10Am.
Maybe it's just a coincidence.

Wasn't there documented decent Hi-VHF reception for the old Channel Master 4228? I think it was due to the big reflector fence on the back of the unit.
The CM 4228HD also has good VHF-hi gain. There are also some good VHF-hi/UHF combos available. Other UHF antennas can be modified to improve VHF-hi gain with NARODS or reflectors. There is lots of info about this in the OTA antenna forum. Anyone who wants to pick up RF channel 11 at a distance will need an antenna with decent UHF-hi gain.

k, gotcha jds, your best bet from Kitchener would be to grab an outdoor VHF antenna, possibly use the VHF input of the CM7777 preamp I see in ur post. Try the VHF antenna straight up at first for testing purposes to get a feel for where you stand on VHF from there without a preamp.

I just spoke with a tech at CHCH and was told that "We are transmitting at full alocated power from Industry Canada, 450 watts."

Andre

While waiting for TVO last night I was able to scan CHCH but did not get picture, just time and rating info.

In both countries, stations had the opportunity to choose their post-transition channel, usually from the analog channel or the transition digital channel. Once the channel was chosen, the radiated power was essentially set by the regulator based on the allocation model (station proposes facilities and regulator approves, actually.)

For stations to effectively petition for more power, they need FACTS to show how far off modelling assumptions were.


Appreciate your observations. I hope CHCH will use the voluminous data that has been provided. But, so far they have made no public statements owning that they have a problem and soliciting such data.

I too am not interested in questions of incompetence or skullduggery. But given the well documented issues concerning vhf channels in the States, it does beg the question as to why CHCH back then opted for the vhf channel given the choice that you report they made. Should they not have found out whether the same inadequate modelling was being used in making that choice?

This amateur expected his CHCH reception would disappear just from reading these forums. Why should we have to second guess and make assumptions that CHCH are also not happy?

I want to see CHCH step up to the plate and show some leadership going forward, acknowledge the problem, report their own data and findings, and apply for permission to fix it.

The thing that I don't get is, why would they get rid of 18RF that was working so well. I mean, with OTA, CHCH is competing with a dozen channels for viewership. While on cable, which seems to be their answer to folks that can't receive them, their competing with hundreds of channels for viewership. For example, all day news - no competition on OTA, lots of competition CP24, CNN, CBC news network, etc.

I lost CHCH when the switch took place. I had previously received both CHCH digital and analogue. I assumed my CM 7777 was set to "combined" since the old analogue signal was VHF. Not so, I had a chance to open up the preamp and ......it was set to VHF separate. A quick flick of the switch to combined and a rescan and CHCH DT is back. Signal is about 58% using a CM 4221HD aimed north at Toronto. This is with the antennas in my attic. So mounting the antennas on my room and aiming at Hamilton would likely rest in increase signal strength. Will have to see what happens to CFTO at the end of the month.

I won't buy a VHF antenna until the digital change over is complete. Maybe once some of the analog is off the air it will help also i got the CHCH analog signal with this setup so do i really need to reinvent the wheel.

If CHCH went to 45 KW that should easily fix the problem. They may have been allotted low power to protect another CH-11 somewhere. Their might be one in Muskoka.

I just spoke with a tech at CHCH and was told that "We are transmitting at full alocated power from Industry Canada, 450 watts."

Andre

Be aware that when they say 450 watts, they presumably mean TPO. The gain in the antenna makes it 6.1 kW ERP.

I remember hearing another station say something like that and it took me a while to figure out they were referring to power out of the transmitter and not power out of the antenna.

- Trip

In this day and age almost everyone knows about "Social Media" (Twitter, Facebook, Google+, etc.) and the ways to use the big and small services out there. As Canada's premier web resource for all things about the Digital Home we have continued to exist through mostly good times but also some bad. For small business owners, this is a familiar pattern.

Since our site uses a traditional web forum format part of it's success has been the Rules of the Forum. Please see the following two rules in particular:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=500751&postcount=7

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=797552&postcount=11

So, keep in mind that if you go into a local, privately owned restaurant and start yelling at everyone to go across the street to Mcdonalds you will understandably be given a very hard time by the small business owner. Likewise if you go into a big store like Sears and start shouting at everyone to go to The Bay you will be escorted out, at the very least! :D

Experienced OTA Forum members will already know that we have a friendly relationship with the TVFool.com, FMFool.com, and RabbitEars.Info sites.

I have had to remove several posts that link or refer to competing sites. Thank you for your understanding, and if you wish to discuss the issue you can post in the Member Feedback forum (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9) but not in this thread.

cheers