Just did a rescan and I'm not getting CHCH also. I have a DB8 outdoor (but pointing towards Toronto so I can get CBC for HNIC). I use to get CHCH digital with no problems before. Disappointing. Will be sending them a message also.

I was hoping that the DB8 would perform well enough for high VHF channels to pickup CHCH... but I guess their signal is too low for my setup

All I can say is... Wow.

I live less than 9 km from the transmitter, and I cannot pick up CHCH to save my life. I've already fired off an e-mail to them asking what the issue is. I should be able to pick them up without an issue.

There are two things possible... either the 91XG is bad, bad, disgustingly bad at VHF frequency (but I'm under 9 km), or CHCH are ignoring the Hamilton market.

I never knew about this thread until I hopped on today. I had not known that CHCH was a problem until after I asked the wife.

Not only did CHCH change from UHF to VHF but they dropped the power on their VHF signal by almost 18dB! Are they really surprised that reception issues have been reported?

Is anyone getting a response from the general CHCH email addys on their site? So far I got nothing in response.

Not only did CHCH change from UHF to VHF but they dropped the power on their VHF signal by almost 18dB! Are they really surprised that reception issues have been reported?
they dropped the power on their VHF signal by almost 18dB
Bang on! VHF needs more, not less power than UHF.

There are two things possible... either the 91XG is bad, bad, disgustingly bad at VHF frequency (but I'm under 9 km), or CHCH are ignoring the Hamilton market.
The 91-XG usually does best with VHF when aimed 90° off axis from the tower. I have had good success with RF 7 & 9 @ 24 miles out, but YMMV.

Is anyone getting a response from the general CHCH email addys on their site? So far I got nothing in response.

If this forum is any indication, CHCH engineering staff are likely getting bombarded with complaints (most valid, some not so much) and as such, I doubt anyone can expect timely responses.

FWIW, in south Kitchener, I used to get CHCH on DTV channel 18 with the highest signal strength of any station, and now that they're on DTV channel 11, I can't get a lock at all, day/night or otherwise; the signal's there, just too low for my plasma TV or various converter boxes. Now, I have a Winegard UHF antenna and UHF-only pre-amp on a 30 foot tower, but that's not a fair comparison since it hardly passed any VHF analog signals before the flash cut. I also have an old broadband VHF antenna in a workshop attic (that used to get fairly good analog channel 11 reception, but is also now insufficient for DTV channel 11) and I plan to experiment with taking that one outside/aerial once my time permits. I'm guessing I'll be able to have a stable DTV channel 11 signal if I aim a proper VHF antenna towards Stoney Creek, but I will agree with some of the posters above who mention issues with VHF interference -- that's likely a problem that can't be overcome, even if CHCH could just magically crank up their ERP to (for the purpose of exaggeration) 1MW.

I'm guessing I'll be able to have a stable DTV channel 11 signal if I aim a proper VHF antenna towards Stoney Creek, but I will agree with some of the posters above who mention issues with VHF interference -- that's likely a problem that can't be overcome, even if CHCH could just magically crank up their ERP to (for the purpose of exaggeration) 1MW.

A properly aimed VHF-High antenna that is not combined with any other broadband antennas is a good start towards reducing the VHF-High noise floor.

1MW is definitely not necessary. 15-30 kW would be good. And a directional VHF-hi receiving antenna should help a lot!

If this forum is any indication, CHCH engineering staff are likely getting bombarded with complaints (most valid, some not so much) and as such, I doubt anyone can expect timely responses.


From what I can see the engineers on the ground did an excellent job of efficiently executing the transition according to plan.

The entire process of switching of 11 analog, 18 digital and switching on 11 digital at the power level that had been published before hand took less than an hour and was bang on time. Those guys did an AWESOME job.

The problem was in the engineering policy setting, that proposed the plan in the first place.

An emailed automated, courtesy response from CHCH acknowledging that they have a problem, acknowledging receipt of the emails and saying that they are looking at rectifying the situation asap should be the minimum they should already be doing. A public statement on their website, and on air for those still able to receive the channel intermittently, would earn them respect too!

I live less than 9 km from the transmitter, and I cannot pick up CHCH to save my life.
There are two things possible... either the 91XG is bad, bad, disgustingly bad at VHF frequency (but I'm under 9 km), or CHCH are ignoring the Hamilton market.

Are you using a pre-amp? If so, does it have separate VHF/UHF inputs? And if that's the case, is the UHF leg set to "combined" or "separate"?!?

If the latter, that would effectively kill VHF reception.

I sent an email to chch with signal complaints. I was at my parents house today and had to use a VHF antenna to receive chch and they can see the tower from their house in Stoent Creek. You should be able to recieve it with anything that close to the tower.

As a US broadcaster who flash cut a 316 kw analog to 11 kw digital on channel 8, what I see in this thread is EXACTLY what most of the US VHF high band stations went through two years ago. A poster earlier on said he saw a 10 db decrease in signal from CHCH's signal. In tests that I personally were involved with, my station too experienced a 10 db signal loss between pre and post transition coverage using the same equipment, antenna, transmitter, feedline, etc. The power levels that the FCC gave VHF stations were all around 10 db below what was needed to replicate digital to analog coverage on VHF high band. According to the numbers I had, we would need to increase power from 11 kw to 100 kw (roughly 10 db) to replicate coverage. The problem appears to be in how the actual predictions do not reflect real life conditions. The FCC does not appear to want to deal with this issue. Because of that, we changed channels to UHF and replicated 95% of our analog coverage.

We too had FCC engineers in house on T +4 after the transition, and while they wouldn't officially comment, they saw what the situation was. It was due to this that the FCC allowed us to restart our pre-transition 1 megawatt UHF digital transmission system and simulcast with our channel 8 digital for 7 months after the transition as we ran tests and such to prove how inadequate 11 kw on channel 8 was. In our case, we could not increase our VHF power due to 2 other channel 8's within 150 miles of transmitter so we changed permanently to our UHF and abandoned channel 8 March of 2010.

Of course Canadian TV operates differently from US TV, but what you are experiencing with CHCH is nothing different than what we have and are dealing with here south of the border. To be honest, I am not surprised with the results since it appears the CRTC went down the same the road as the FCC when it came to predicting coverage. I hope the CRTC sees the error in its ways and will allow the VHF's to increase to usable power levels.

I forwarded an email complaint to the CRTC about the loss of CHCH. Here is their lame response:

This is in response to your correspondence of August 17, 2011.



Canadian local over-the-air television stations moving to digital

By August 31, 2011, many Canadian over-the-air television stations will be switching from analog to digital signals. The switch to digital may affect television viewers who receive local TV stations over the air by using an outdoor antenna or “rabbit ears”. Once the switch occurs, these viewers may need to have either a digital converter box or a television with a digital tuner, or they may wish to consider receiving their TV services from a cable, satellite or other service provider.

Consumers should first contact their local broadcasters to determine if they will be converting to digital and, if so, how their signals may be affected.

If you are a customer who must prepare for these changes, your questions on transition to digital television may be addressed at: http://digitaltv.gc.ca/eng/1282825334983/1282825604404.



Additional information:

You will need a converter box that has an analog pass-through feature to be able to watch channels that have switched to digital and channels that are still broadcasting in analog. This feature will be useful if some of your local stations are making the switch to digital before the August 31st deadline, or if you live in an area where some stations will switch to digital and some stations will continue to broadcast in analog after the deadline.



The following link will provide you with more information: http://digitaltv.gc.ca/eng/1282936907489/1282924348080


I am also providing you with a link to the fact sheet entitled "How to make a broadcasting complaint" which explains the CRTC complaints process: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G8.htm .

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please do not reply to this message using the email address indicated above as we cannot receive e-mail at this address. To reply or to add to your submission, please click here and follow the prompts: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/rapidsccm/landing.asp?lang=E&caseid=544734&key=41189.0310895448


Regards,

Chantal Proulx
Client Services

1-877-249-2782 /télécopieur/facsimile 819-994-0218
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes / Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N2
Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission / Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N2
Gouvernement du Canada / Government of Canada

Typical response:

What a slap in our faces though, to dare to doubt the intellegence of the viewers.

These clueless idiots are basically calling the concerned viewers idiots.:(

As a specific question....get a generic answer.

Nice job Chantal Proulx :rolleyes:

"Not only did CHCH change from UHF to VHF but they dropped the power on their VHF signal by almost 18dB! Are they really surprised that reception issues have been reported?"

"Bang on! VHF needs more, not less power than UHF."

Hold on here I think there maybe some misunderstanding. VHF penetrates buildings better and, because of the longer wavelength, diffracts more around obstacles such as hills, mountains or large buildings. And as you note, it also requires less transmitter power to cover a given area. Therefore stations want to use VHF whenever possible.

On the other hand, VHF is more susceptible to impulse noise from poorly shielded electrical appliances, automobile spark plugs, power lines, etc. This produces the white speckles that you often see on analog TV signals. It's also very bad for digital reception, because there is apparently no easy way for a digital receiver to correct for it. The effects are worse on lower channels, which is why few stations will use low VHF channels (2-6) for digital signals after analog shutdown.


But CHCH is transmitting on the higher VHF channels (7 to 13) channel 11. Therefore they should be able to cover a larger area with lower power level. This why many digital TV stations like this band. The main draw back is on the receiving end. Does your "antenna (UHF)" receive the VHF hi band? So far the 4228 is doing the job for me, that is CHCH.

I expected that most people would be getting a strong signal strength in general, that’s what has happen to me so far in the case of CHCH 11. In fact I am kind of worried about the analog switchover to digital. I’m hoping that when the other stations (Higher Power Output) switch channels at the end of this month that they don’t overload or adversely effect any off the US stations many of us now receive. I’m sure we all are, mean time we will have to just sit back wait for the dust to settle.

I hope things workout for everyone, mean time I am going to just sit back wait for the dust to settles.

Well this stinks. CHCH used to be that one channel. The one I could still get if I put my antenna in a faraday cage and aimed it at the floor.

Now I'm getting squat.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the channel/power allocations come from Industry Canada. And if CHCH is at the maximum allocated, they'd be in violation if they increased it.

I think the onus is on CHCH to ask Industry Canada for a power increase and/or a new allocation if the current one is insufficient.

Ok Folks I got the CS 5 and put it up.

I am aiming at WNGS because I wanted to get it. I am not getting WNGS :( but am getting CHCH there are dropouts once in a while.

I then switched the location of my uhf and vhf antennas and CHCH is coming in better 83% signal.. still once in a while a bit of crap goes through the screen (i.e. signal does not drop but little fluctuations). I did not get WNGS :( although I did for a while about a month ago (someone here mentioned that they were testing with more power and will turn it on after the Canadian transistion). My buns were saved by Tropo new UHF position picked up PBS (with the wonderful world channed) and 8.1 from Rochester.. so in total 39 digital (with some weird 16.1 types with nothing on them).

Anyways I assume that if I was pointing my CS5 directly at Hamilton then I would get it even better BUT do you really want to go out and spend a big chunk of cash for one station? On the other hand my monthly bills with ring the "B .... " thieves was almost enough for today's VHF antenna so...

Now the wait for Sept 1 when I might point directly at Hamilton.

cheers

The transition of CHCH from RF18 to RF11 was a non event for me here in Guelph. The signal monitor on my Hauppauge USB stick measured SNR of 27 when CH was on RF18 and now measures 27 as well on RF11. Painless transition. My antenna is a SBGH6 with NARODS (less NAROD reflectors) and I've been using that for about 2 years. Also using a preamp with FM trap.

I also have a DB8 which I bought thinking that it should work better than my home brew antenna, but after about 2 weeks I went back to the SBGH6. I may experiment with the DB8 to see how CH reception is like with that antenna.

Curious to see what the TVO transition will be like.