: CHCH Hamilton DTV Transition - Aug. 15, 2011 - update in Post #462
2011-08-16, 01:02 PM
CHCH still holding steady at 92% no change.Those having problems should contact CHCH and maybe they can apply for more power.In the U.S. it took power increases to 40 to 100 kw to duplicate the analog range stations once had.
2011-08-16, 01:09 PM
The only thing about a Yagi in the Attic is the amount of spare room available, plus how big your attic door is.
In another post on the HD / FM Radio thread, I talked about how I created a separate dipole antenna in the attic. The materials were two 5 feet aluminum rods (tomato stakes purchased at Cdn tire -- about $3.00 each) with the green insulation taken off.
Threw the two rods (about 2 inches apart with a UHF / VHF balun. Insulation block (2 * 2 ) -- 6 inches long for support. Drilled hole through one of the horizontal support beams -- an inserted a 5 inch bolt with washers for clear rotation in a 360 degree radius (well actually 240 degrees).
Note that this antenna resides in the back end of my attic completely away from my TV antennas.
Scans in 46 FM radio stations around Toronto and Niagara, plus a few higher powered TV staions around Toronto / Hamilton.
Scanned in Hamilton 11.1 VHF this morning (1st scan since the changeover yesterday). Meter on the AverMedia USB TV tuner reads 100%.
Better than our Toshiba TV tuners (which are about 80%).
Hope this helps.
2011-08-16, 01:10 PM
Patience... .. or lack of it.. Just ordered a CS 5 folks and will put it up tomorrow evening after work, Upper Beaches Toronto... If I don't get CHCH, WNGS after this I am going to be in severe trouble with the spouse.... :(
I will report back tomorrow evening, wish me luck :)
2011-08-16, 03:29 PM
what was the ERP 18 RF?
2011-08-16, 04:03 PM
The average ERP of channel 18 was 27kW. The current average ERP of channel 11 is 4.5kW. However, remember that comparing ERP from VHF to UHF stations is like comparing apples to oranges.
2011-08-16, 04:04 PM
When CHCH -dt was on 18 with 60kw now we have 6kw on 11 vs analog 11 was 316kw.
2011-08-16, 04:14 PM
This really sucks that I'm no longer going to be able to receive CHCH-DT over the air. They really need to up their output.
I hope I don't have an issue when CIII Paris transmits in digital. Either that or I hope CIII-41 Toronto ups the power enough so I can get it reliably
2011-08-16, 04:17 PM
frubsen: Are you using a proper VHF antenna?
2011-08-16, 04:25 PM
Nope just my CM4228 antenna and CM7777 pre amp. I know it's a UHF only antenna, but it did pretty well on VHF HI 7-13 in analog...So I figured I shouldn't have an issue with CHCH. Although now I'm wondering about CIII Paris since its going to be on RF6
Channel 13 obviously being the best, so I'm thinking I should have no problem once CKCO switches over, seeing as I'm about 10km from the transmitter.
2011-08-16, 05:21 PM
lol. VHF 11 is a completely different frequency than UHF. I talked to many sales guys about the issue with 9 and 11 (and even 7). They just didn't have a clue about radio frequencies
They just said buy it, it will work. I said can I have a written guarantee that if it doesn't work properly after August 31st, then I could bring it back and get my money returned, they said no. I said would should I spend $70.00 here, when you guys don't have a clue.
Best case is to build your own for what you need or be prepared to buy one yagi and one bowtie (both with rotors). Hook up to a j-pole.1
2011-08-16, 05:24 PM
hi I'm new to this.
Located in Stanley Park area of Kitchener CHCH analog 11 used to come in OK and Digital 11.1 was always clear. Since the CHCH change over I have rescanned and adjust the antenna and still No CHCH but I now get TVO digital 28.1 clean and clear. I Sent email to CHCH to let them know. I think everyone having problems should let them know so they are aware.
2011-08-16, 05:42 PM
I frequent a falafel shack in downtown Hamilton, that runs OTA for customers.
I went today and helped them get CHCH back (via re-scanning), but it's not a solid lock, it was pixelating this afternoon. I think they got a knock-off UHF only on the roof, and there is lots of tall buildings around (Jackson Square area). Even though their set-up is not good, you would think they could still get CHCH, which is about 10 miles away; I guess VHF signals are a much different bird.
2011-08-16, 06:00 PM
I always had trouble getting CHCH with my 4228 pointed towards the CN tower. Now it seems to be just fine but I have seen a few dropouts, it should not be a problem I am only about 15 K from the antenna. One quick question, I looked at the projected coverage maps for City, CTV and Global from Toronto and Hamilton is not in the coverage area is that correct?
Anybody having success getting 11.1 in Kitchener using a VHF antenna (not on a 65' tower ;)) and if so, which make/model is working for you?
I'm going to wait until after everything switches to make some antenna decisions given the number of VHF stations that will be in the Kitchener area. I was hoping a DB8 might "just work" given the performance in analogue pre-transition.
2011-08-16, 06:15 PM
jds & tgf, out of curiousity check ur chch reception again after sundown or so.
Be interesting to see if it improves ~ then.
also, what antenna are u using currently and how high is it?
Kitchener coverage from chch looks about as spotty as it does here in Buffalo
on a coverage map. Here it improved from a marginal 15 dB SNR to ~ 22 dB SNR
as soon as the sun went down last nite. Held pretty much steady all nite long.
degraded again this AM right around 9 or 10 AM. Yielding about 12 hours of solid reception across
4 tuners in the house. Marginal reception on 2 of the 4 tuners the rest of the time.
Probably the most they've been tuned to chch for quite a while, hehe;)
2011-08-16, 06:17 PM
People here keep refering to the change from 18RF to 11RF for the digital signal. The differences in characteristics between UHF or VHF is really irrelevent to the CHCH post transition issue of people losing CHCH 11RF signals since this transition. Forget about that UHF18RF temporary transitional signal.
If you were able to get CHCH analog 11RF before the digital transition with a UHF antenna, then nothing should have changed, because it was 11RF before and it is still 11RF now. Obviously the digital signal is providing a weaker service than the analog signal provided.
The pertinent fact is that CHCH's post transition digital erp was supposed to be calculated to provide the same contour/coverage area as the CHCH analog signal covered,.. clearly that did not happen. After all, I believe that CHCH's license requires that they cover the contour shown in their license application.
The bottom line is:
If you were able to get CHCH's analog 11RF, you should now be able to get CHCH's digital 11RF. If you can't, then the burden should be on CHCH and the CRTC to take action and permit CHCH to boost the digital erp to cover the original analog contour area.
Is it a conspiracy? maybe!
The CRTC's game plan is to force OTA freeloaders to sign up with a BDU? probably!
2011-08-16, 06:37 PM
The pertinent fact is that CHCH's post transition digital erp was supposed to be calculated to provide the same contour/coverage area as the CHCH analog signal covered,.. clearly that did not happen.
Has anyone heard from a technical staffer at CHCH concerning their actual operational power?
Here in the US, there were a few stations that flash cut in a manner similar to CHCH but didn't immediately operate at their final authorized power. In some cases, it took a few days (or even a week or so) to graduate to the licensed ERP. There were some situations where the digital power was reduced (for tower workers' safety) during the time it took to remove a side-mounted antenna that had been used pre-transition.
On the other hand, "it is what it is" might very well be the situation at CHCH.
2011-08-16, 06:37 PM
I'd buy a VHF high antenna today if someone was actually selling them.
I can't find anywhere in Ontario you can buy the y10-7-13.
Sad thing is, The Source were carrying the y10 & y5 for quite some time. I bought two of the Y5-7-13. They put both of them on clearance a number of months back, and now carry neither.
Not very good decision to stop carrying them prior to the CDN transition, with many stations going to VHF. They probably could have sold quite a few just in the GTA, with CFTO/CHCH/WBBZ all on the VHF dial.
2011-08-16, 06:38 PM
Anybody having success getting 11.1 in Kitchener using a VHF antenna (not on a 65' tower ) and if so, which make/model is working for you?I'm receiving it without difficulty using my XG91 that's presently on a tripod mast on the roof. 11.1 is showing 3/4 on my TV's crappy signal level meter. The 4228HD I had on previously performed better than the XG91, particularly on VHF, so I'll likely go back that route soon. I'm in Ayr, a few km south of Kitchener.
2011-08-16, 06:40 PM
Currently sitting at 35-40% @ 11.
Though that's not too far off of what 18 was, so I'd say not bad.
I'm not exactly aimed for Ham.
4228 (old) aimed for Buffalo.