Something we found here in the states when stations changed channels or had issues in the PSIP they corrected, that many boxes needed a "double rescan." Meaning remove the antenna completely and do a fresh scan, NOT an add to scan. This cleans out the table. When the scan is complete and the box reports no stations, then reconnect the antenna Run another fresh scan (NOT an add to scan) again. In 95% of the time, this fixed problems in PSIP viewers were experiencing that the station was not transmitting.

foxeng, I concur with that advice. I've recently found on my Sony Bravia tuner that a complete rescan was necessary to grab new digital stations coming online.

navwizard, I have been reading about a common issue with Windows Media Center and PSIP streams and think I may have found something worth looking into.

An Ottawa member, OTAJuncqui, was kind enough to post the TSReader info he was getting for Global Ottawa, and upon quickly analyzing it, and checking on this document page 36, http://pds3.egloos.com/pds/200611/14/24/psip-tutorial.pdf it mentions the TSIDs should match.

*Program Association Table*

PAT Version Number: 5
Transport Stream ID: 1 (0x0001)

PMT PID 48 (0x0030) - Program 1 (file:///C:/BIN/TSRead.htm#pmt_1) CIII-HD

*Program Map Table(s)*

Program Number: 1 CIII-HD (file:///C:/BIN/TSRead.htm#sdt_1)
PCR PID: 0x0031



Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 49 (0x0031)
MPEG Video: Bitrate 24.000 Mbps Resolution 1920 x 1080i
MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio PID 52 (0x0034)
AC3: Bitrate 384 Kbps Sample Rate 48 KHz
AC3: Mode complete main Coding 3/2 5 L, C, R, SL, SR
Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor
Language: eng
Audio type: undefined
Descriptor: ATSC AC-3 audio Descriptor
ATSC AC3 Descriptor

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio PID 53 (0x0035)
AC3: Bitrate 192 Kbps Sample Rate 48 KHz
AC3: Mode complete main Coding 2/0 L, R
Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor
Language: eng
Audio type: undefined
Descriptor: ATSC AC-3 audio Descriptor
ATSC AC3 Descriptor

*Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table*

Channel 1
Service Name: CIII-HD
TSID: 17195 (0x432b)
Channel Number: 6.1
Carrier Frequency: 0
Modulation Mode: ATSC (8 VSB)
Source ID: 1
Descriptor: ATSC Service Location Descriptor
Service Location Descriptor:
PCR PID 0x0031
Stream Type 0x02 (MPEG-2 Video) ESPID = 0x0031 Language =
Stream Type 0x81 (AC-3 Audio) ESPID = 0x0034 Language = eng
Stream Type 0x81 (AC-3 Audio) ESPID = 0x00
==

Should these 2 numbers (0x0001) and (0x432b) match ?

Yes, they should. As long as they don't, many tuners will choke on the signal.

- Trip

For your reference, here is another older thread which covers the same TSID mismatch issue and how it was also affecting Windows Media Center users.
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=893538

Thanks.

I'm actually very aware of this issue. A few months ago, I got an e-mail complaint from a person in rural Oregon who could scan in all of the Oregon PBS SD subchannels, but not the main HD channel. Got him to send me TSReader for it and the TSIDs were mismatched. He called up OPB and they fixed the issue and it scanned right in.

Same thing happened a few months later with KMRZ-LD in Los Angeles, and I also observed the same issue on a translator for Las Vegas PBS. Not sure either was ever fixed.

- Trip

good catch flavoie on the TSID mismatching for Global DTV which could be causing the MC signal mismatch.

Did you PM and email that to the Global rep?

====

I wanted to add, that I had no problem "Add Channel" Scan for TVO digital. It was only Global that would not scan in, nor does it work trying to add it in manually. The signal is strong but when trying to tune to it through the guide, 7MC says there is "no signal broadcasting on that channel" kind of thing.

So because I could reach Global on my TV and on WinTV (native Hauppage software) it was only Windows 7 Media Center that would not recognize the signal.

All other channels work well for me in 7MCE. (setup is CM7778 + DBGH (DB8) in the attic)
CBC, CBC-FT, SunTV, TVO, CITY, OMNI,
I am looking forward to seeing CTV and CTV2 and even the french channel quality in a week's time.

I may need to get a separate VHF antenna to join with the CM7778 for 6 and 13 if they are flaky...

derek_in_ottawa, check post 24, as in the title of this thread. Someone right here contributing to this thread works for Shaw.

I know the guy was here, but maybe he's sitting in his cubicle and can't be on here every hour :)

No problem, patience is a virtue they say...

This is the blog post from Peter Near which I had been looking for which explains more in depth what PSIP gotchas you can have in Windows Media Center.

Troubleshooting ATSC Transport Stream Issues in Media Center
http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/troubleshooting-atsc-transport-stream-issues-in-media-center.aspx

Peter mentioned he would look into updating it but what's there is already very relevant (the TSID mismatch advice is in there as well) and can be used to debug the existing issues we have, well, now...

Here is a TSReader entry for a correctly formatted PSIP data used in the United States with two streams.

(HT - rabbitears.info)

Program Association Table
PAT Version Number: 5
Transport Stream ID: 1833 (0x0729)

PMT PID 48 (0x0030) - Program 3 WGHP
PMT PID 64 (0x0040) - Program 4 TV8.2
Program Map Table(s)
Program Number: 3 WGHP
Descriptor: ATSC Component Name Descriptor
Component Name: WGHP-HD

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 49 (0x0031)
MPEG Video: Bitrate 14.164 Mbps Resolution 1280 x 720p
MPEG Video: Framerate 59.94 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0
Descriptor: Data Stream Alignment Descriptor
Alignment type: video access unit

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio PID 52 (0x0034)
AC3: Bitrate 448 Kbps Sample Rate 48 KHz
AC3: Mode complete main Coding 2/0 L, R
AC3: Dolby Surround Mode not indicated
AC3: LFE Mode Off Dialogue normalization -24 dB
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor
Format identifier: 0x41432d33 (AC-3)
Descriptor: ATSC Component Name Descriptor
Component Name: Primary Audio
Descriptor: ATSC AC-3 audio Descriptor
ATSC AC3 Descriptor
Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor
Language: eng
Audio type: undefined

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio PID 53 (0x0035)
AC3: Bitrate 128 Kbps Sample Rate 48 KHz
AC3: Mode complete main Coding 2/0 L, R
AC3: Dolby Surround Mode not indicated
AC3: LFE Mode Off Dialogue normalization -24 dB
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor
Format identifier: 0x41432d33 (AC-3)
Descriptor: ATSC Component Name Descriptor
Component Name: Secondary Audio
Descriptor: ATSC AC-3 audio Descriptor
ATSC AC3 Descriptor
Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor
Language: spa
Audio type: undefined
Program Number: 4 TV8.2
Descriptor: ATSC Component Name Descriptor
Component Name: TV8.2

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 65 (0x0041)
MPEG Video: Bitrate 2.141 Mbps Resolution 720 x 480i
MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0
Descriptor: Data Stream Alignment Descriptor
Alignment type: video access unit

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio PID 68 (0x0044)
AC3: Bitrate 192 Kbps Sample Rate 48 KHz
AC3: Mode complete main Coding 2/0 L, R
AC3: Dolby Surround Mode not indicated
AC3: LFE Mode Off Dialogue normalization -27 dB
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor
Format identifier: 0x41432d33 (AC-3)
Descriptor: ATSC Component Name Descriptor
Component Name: Primary Audio
Descriptor: ATSC AC-3 audio Descriptor
ATSC AC3 Descriptor
Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor
Language: eng
Audio type: undefined
Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table
Channel 3
Service Name: WGHP
TSID: 1833 (0x0729) NTSC: 08 ATSC: 35 NC HIGH POINT
Channel Number: 8.1
Carrier Frequency: 0
Modulation Mode: ATSC (8 VSB)
Source ID: 3
Descriptor: ATSC Extended Channel Name Descriptor
Extended Channel Name: WGHP, High Point, North Carolina
Descriptor: ATSC Service Location Descriptor
Service Location Descriptor:
PCR PID 49
Stream Type 0x02 (MPEG-2 Video) ESPID = 49 Language =
Stream Type 0x81 (AC-3 Audio) ESPID = 52 Language = eng
Stream Type 0x81 (AC-3 Audio) ESPID = 53 Language = spa
Channel 4
Service Name: TV8.2
TSID: 1833 (0x0729) NTSC: 08 ATSC: 35 NC HIGH POINT
Channel Number: 8.2
Carrier Frequency: 0
Modulation Mode: ATSC (8 VSB)
Source ID: 4
Descriptor: ATSC Extended Channel Name Descriptor
Extended Channel Name: WGHP TV8.2
Descriptor: ATSC Service Location Descriptor
Service Location Descriptor:
PCR PID 65
Stream Type 0x02 (MPEG-2 Video) ESPID = 65 Language =
Stream Type 0x81 (AC-3 Audio) ESPID = 68 Language = eng

navwizard,

In addition to the information from flavoie (and OTAJuncqui) regarding the TSID values. (Post #83)

I noticed that the start times on the EIT table for Global Ottawa is in 1970. I don't know if this will affect how WMC is behaving, but thought I would let you know.

Thanks,


Event Information Table
Channel 1
Service Name: CIII-HD
Provider Name:
Transport Stream ID: 17195 (0x432b)

---------------------------------------------
Starts: 02/08/1970 6:00:00 PM
Length: 134:24:24
EIT Source: n/a
Name: DTV Program
Description: DTV Program
Descriptor: ATSC AC-3 audio Descriptor
ATSC AC3 Descriptor
Descriptor: ATSC Caption Service Descriptor
ATSC Caption Service Descriptor:
Language: eng Format: Captions service 1

---------------------------------------------
Starts: 02/08/1970 6:00:00 PM
Length: 134:24:24
EIT Source: n/a
Name: DTV Program
Description: DTV Program
Descriptor: ATSC AC-3 audio Descriptor
ATSC AC3 Descriptor
Descriptor: ATSC Caption Service Descriptor
ATSC Caption Service Descriptor:
Language: eng Format: Captions service 1

Gang....

Thanks for the reports on the TSID. I am looking into it. (always good to do some testing before you just change stuff!)

I'll also follow up on the Ottawa time stamp. There is a device in the path to alter the TSID and virtual channel tables so they are correct for Ottawa. It may be affecting the time as well.

Thanks!


Dan

Navwizard, there is no EIT/ETT (also known as program information) in channel 41.1 Toronto's PSIP. There was EIT/ETT in the temporary channel 65 PSIP although it went missing a few days ago. Can this be fixed?

El Gran Chico.....

We're working to get proper guide information on all the transmitters. It involves contacts and things, so takes a bit, but I am working on it!

Thanks for the patience!

Dan

navwizard, just in case you have not heard, many people including myself are simply not getting a good enough signal to lock Global Ottawa 6.1 (VHF channel 6).

We have another thread at http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1304609

...in which people are reporting their results, as well as people referring to common VHF Lo issues seen before in USA especially when power was lowered just like Global Ottawa. Lots of people are wondering if the channel will be moved to another channel, if power will be increased, etc, because they are not getting it. It just doesn't sound right to have to go on the roof to install rabbit ears, or not get the channel reliably when using a channel 6 single cut yagi in an attic with preamp.

Thanks a lot for checking in and for your feedback. I hope you will make this transition a success !

Thanks Navwizard, I'll be patient. :cool:

Similar situation to what flavoie describes is also happening in the London thread (also trying to get 6.1, but from Paris) http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=115171&page=70 .

On a separate note, are there any plans on the drawing board yet for the Global transmitters in the non-mandatory markets? I know a number of people particularly on the west side on London had better luck tuning in analog 29 out of Oil Springs than analog 6 in Paris, and would love to see the Oil Springs transmitter one of the first non-mandatory transmitters to go digital (although I guess Peterborough gets the honour of being first).

I noticed that the start times on the EIT table for Global Ottawa is in 1970.
looks like Unix time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time).

Possibly a linux OS / box in the system somewhere?
The ATSC standard may have adopted that as a standard...

Thanks Navwizard,

Vista WMC is now behaving ok again, and CICT-DT here in Calgary is back to normal on my HTPC. Before the fall season and all...

One very big sigh of relief and again thank you very much!

Signed
One happy camper :)

Channel 27 still seems to be broadcasting an analogue signal.

I found with WMC that I had to do a manual rescan then edit the channel information. It seems to come up well now. Speaking of which, since I'm across the lake from the US I figured out the closest US zip code and used that in WMC. The listing showed Canadian channels. But I expect to have to change things over the week as the other stations transition over.