Suddenly Global DT has dropped from my channel lineup. All other channels are behaving as normal. Maybe they are changing stuff up before the Aug 31 deadline? Anyone else notice global missing?

Maybe they went back to the Herald transmitter location.....

Thanks.

I checked the signal strength in 7MC and it is 100%, but when I tune to 8.1 (UHF 22) I get the message that Service is unavailable. There is currently no TV signal detected for this channel.

I ran TSReader lite, and it shows two digital signals on channel 22 (-20 dB) :

Channel 0
Service Name: CHAN-SD
TSID: 16667 (0x411b)
Channel Number: 8.2
Carrier Frequency: 0
Modulation Mode: ATSC (8 VSB)
Source ID: 2

Channel 1
Service Name: CHAN-HD
TSID: 16667 (0x411b)
Channel Number: 8.1
Carrier Frequency: 0
Modulation Mode: ATSC (8 VSB)
Source ID: 1

Just noticed the SD pid.
14 Megs assigned to CITV-HD on 13-1.
4 Megs assigned to CITV-SD on 13-2.
Not able to see the video on 13-2. Schedules are not there anymore.

Gang......

Just to clear some things up for you guys.

We (Global) did change quite a bit of the signal path on Tuesday night (July 19th). New encoders, glue (distribution amps, processors, etc.), and a new PSIP inserter.

To help us with the transition, the SD signal is embedded along with the HD. We're likely remove that in the future. Those of you using something like TSReader will see it, but it's not "supposed" to show up on a TV.

Even though it's supposed to be hidden, it's sounding like some devices (computers mainly?) aren't reading the "hidden" key correctly and are still displaying the SD. I may just remove the SD virtual channel settings. There is no PAT or PMT on the SD (just PIDS), so even if your device is finding 8.2 or 22.2, it's unlikely it's going to display anything.

Of more concern is I'm not sure why some of you are not able to tune in the HD service on 8.1 (or 22.1 for those that tried it). It "should" be all set the same, and in our tests it works, but sometimes different devices react in different ways, and it's pretty hard to test all of them.

I'm trying to see a pattern that might explain that, so any clues you can provide would be appreciated.

Information like devices (like brands of TVs), rough locations, when you started to have trouble, etc. might be a hint
In addition to the path change, we also changed the transmitter. It's same location, same antenna and everything, just higher power, so that also "shouldn't" have affected anything in a negative way. If anything it should be easier to receive the signal now.

Then again, I believe in the Einstiein theory: "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not." :D

For those interested, here's the TVCT (Virtual channel table) right out of master control. (Note the "Hidden=1" on the CHAN-SD signal.) You can also see the HD should be mapping to 8.1. (Major/Minor channel number)

http://www.tvwiz.net/tvct.jpg

Thanks!

Dan

P.S.
I'm the Senior Director, On-Air Systems for Shaw Media. Basically I run our conventional master controls.

Early in the US transition (2003-ish), stations which set the Program to 0 would crash several common receivers. Then-WUPN (now-WMYV) was one, any attempt to tune it on several receivers would cause them to crash and/or freeze. In the worst case, one tuner brand would require a hard reset, losing all scanned channels and requiring a rescan. No surprise that some tuners are choking and not displaying anything at all, sounds like an improvement.

I would avoid setting the Program to 0.

- Trip

I'm in Lynn Valley, line of sight to Mt. Seymour, about 6km west.

I'm using an attic mounted ClearStream 4 antenna that is split 6 ways to a TV and 5 PC tuners.

1 x Vista View Saber DA-1N1-E Combo Tuner (http://www.vistaview.tv/content/view/51/116/) ViXS Pure TV

2 x Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 dual ATSC/NTSC tuners (http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr2250.html)

CHAN-HD 8.1 comes in fine on my TV, a Samsung 42LN550.

My problem started about a week ago in Windows 7 Media Center. All the Vista View and Hauppauge tuners show 100% signal strength on 8.1. But none can receive a signal. I get the message that, Service is unavailable. There is currently no TV signal detected for this channel. My other DTV channels are OK (CBC,CITY,CTV, OMNI, KVOS)

The Hauppauge tuners are on a Asus A8N-SLI Premium, Athlon 64 X2 3800 (S939) running the Hauppauge drivers 7.9.1.28162.

The Vista View is on a Gigabyte MA78GPM-DS2H, Athlon 64 X2 5200 (AM2) running the ViXS drivers 6.2.1.0012

Different tuners, drivers and systems. This leads me to think that the problem is with Windows 7 MC. But why isn't it more widespread?

Finally, I was able to run TSReader lite and stream CHAN-HD to Videolan VLC for playback. So clearly, the Hauppauge tuners and drivers are working properly.

I can send you the TSReader report if you think it would help. it agrees with the report you posted. I really appreciate you reaching out to us like this.

If you search the OTA reception forums you'll see a few of us across the country are having problems with Global TV:

Alberta (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1287849#post1287849)
British Columbia (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1287848#post1287848)
Ontario (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1287425&highlight=Global#post1287425)

Naviwizard ( Dan )
I can tell you the following
22.1 is active and is the same as 8.1 on my 1250 CPU.
During the Tropo last night I got 25.1 which remaps to 22.1 / 22.2 / 22.3 now I was not able to see any of it because 22.1 got 22.1 first (CHAN TV ) but once I disabled 22.1 I was then able to get all three 25.1 main and subs which remap to 22.1 22.2 22.3.

On my samsung I just get yours on 8.1 no 22.1 I did not see how the reception was during the tropo.
Dan from New Westminster :)

Samsung TV shows CICT-DT 2.1 (normal) and CICT-SD 2.2 (bunched up 4:3) ok, but Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1850 in Vista MC will not lock on into CICT-DT 2.1 (Channel 41). This means that under Vista MC this channel is not available for viewing/recording. Hope this gets 'fixed' before fall season starts...

WinTV over same board will show both entries after scan, but can only display CICT-DT 2.1, and will not lock onto CICT-SD 2.2.

Updated all drivers, re-build ATSC via NTSC hack on Canadian Vista MC, and still would not accept lock on CICT-DT, giving same "No TV Signal" error, whereas the channel strength scan shows 100%...

Trying now with Hauppauge 1600 on Vista and Hauppauge 950 USB, but it seems Windows MC is the culprit, not the hardware...

EDIT: Same result, whatever PC or tuner is used. Vista and W7 MC hate 2.1 CICT-DT (recently was renamed to CICT-HD according to Samsung).
EDIT2: The 2.2 CICT-SD is no longer visible on Samsung TV, but Windows Media Centre still is choking on CICT-DT 2.1

Posts from several threads have been moved to this one. Please see Post #24 for Global's response.

Thanks navwizard from all of us for the explanation and best of luck with the fixes. I'm guessing Trip's reply in Post #25 highlights the reason for the troubles. :)

Guys....

Based on your feedback I've altered the TVCT table on the Vancouver transmitter to remove all trace of that program 0, 8.2/22.2 setting.

If one of you that was having trouble with Windows 7 Media center would be so kind as to scan again and see if this change helps at all.

I only did the HD transmitter in Vancouver, but if this appears to solve the problem I can blast the rest of the country tomorrow.

Cheers!

Dan

Edit:
Paste in analyzer:
http://www.tvwiz.net/tvct_no2.jpg

I still get 8.1 correctly and also 22.1 active - same as 8.1.
I am using WinTV-HVR-1250 with software Easy HDTV DVR here is the PSIP file it gets from CHAN TV.... I hope it helps :)


VSB:8-VSB ANT 22
PID=0x0000
PAT TSID=0x0001 Ver=3 current=1 Section=1/1
program_count=1
Program Number: 1, program_map_PID: 0x0030
PID=0x0030
PMT TIDE=0x0001 Ver=3 current=1 Section=1/1
program_number = 1
stream_type = 0x02 (Video ) elementary_PID = 0x0031 ES_info_length = 0
stream_type = 0x81 (AC3 Audio ) elementary_PID = 0x0034 ES_info_length = 12
Tag=0x0A (ISO_639_lang_descr), Len=4 0x65 0x6E 0x67 0x00
Tag=0x81 (AC3 Audio), Len=4 0x08 0x38 0x13 0x00
stream_type = 0x81 (AC3 Audio ) elementary_PID = 0x0035 ES_info_length = 12
Tag=0x0A (ISO_639_lang_descr), Len=4 0x65 0x6E 0x67 0x00
Tag=0x81 (AC3 Audio), Len=4 0x08 0x28 0x13 0x00
PID=0x1D00
EIT source_id=0x0001 Ver=27 current=1 Section=1/1
event_count=6
event_id: 0x0020
start_time = 2011-07-26 11:00:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x0021
start_time = 2011-07-26 11:30:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x0022
start_time = 2011-07-26 12:00:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x0023
start_time = 2011-07-26 12:30:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x0024
start_time = 2011-07-26 13:00:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x0025
start_time = 2011-07-26 13:30:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
PID=0x1D01
EIT source_id=0x0001 Ver=27 current=1 Section=1/1
event_count=7
event_id: 0x0025
start_time = 2011-07-26 13:30:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x00A6
start_time = 2011-07-26 14:00:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x00A7
start_time = 2011-07-26 14:30:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x00A8
start_time = 2011-07-26 15:00:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x00A9
start_time = 2011-07-26 15:30:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x00AA
start_time = 2011-07-26 16:00:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
event_id: 0x00AB
start_time = 2011-07-26 16:30:00 dst
ETM_location: 0x1
event_length = 30
title_length 19
PID=0x1E00
ETT TIDE=0x1307 Ver=27 current=1 Section=1/1
PID=0x1E02
ETT TIDE=0x126C Ver=27 current=1 Section=1/1
PID=0x1FFB
MGT TIDE=0x0000 Ver=24 current=1 Section=1/1
tables_defined: 9
VCT PID 0x1FFB TID 0xCB Version: 6
ETT-000 PID 0x1E00 TID 0xCC Version: 27
ETT-001 PID 0x1E01 TID 0xCC Version: 27
ETT-002 PID 0x1E02 TID 0xCC Version: 27
ETT-003 PID 0x1E03 TID 0xCC Version: 27
EIT-000 PID 0x1D00 TID 0xCB Version: 27
EIT-001 PID 0x1D01 TID 0xCB Version: 27
EIT-002 PID 0x1D02 TID 0xCB Version: 27
EIT-003 PID 0x1D03 TID 0xCB Version: 27
TVCT TSID=0x411B Ver=7 current=1 Section=1/1
protocol_version 0
channel_count 1
channel=8.1 CHAN-HD
modulation_mode: 0x04
carrier_frequency: 0
channel_TSID: 0x411B
program_number: 1
ETM_location: 0x0
access_controlled: 0
hidden: 0
hide_guide: 1
service_type: 0x02 - ATSC digital television
source_id: 0x0001
descriptors_length: 23
pcr_pid=0x31
stream_type = 0x02 (Video ) PID = 0x0031 lang_code =
stream_type = 0x81 (AC3 Audio ) PID = 0x0034 lang_code = eng
stream_type = 0x81 (AC3 Audio ) PID = 0x0035 lang_code = eng
STT TIDE=0x0000 Ver=0 current=1 Section=1/1

I use Windows MC and did a rescan but still can not receive Global 8.1

Ok 8.1 works again for me in Windows 7 MC

Keeping my fingers crossed for Calgary. Tested just now, no change as of yet (did not expect it anyhow...).

Rescan does not work in Vista as Microsoft still does not get it that ATSC is also available in Canada. I have to manually add the DTV channels after doing the 'ATSC Vista Hack for Canada', to just get the ATSC tuners accepted by Media Center (and allow Digital reception to work)...

Liverpud.....

I sent a note off to the Toronto boys about the CN tower transmitter. I don't think we're switching that one until roughly the third week of August, so don't think the analogue should be impacted yet.

Netwerk.....
Yeah, thanks very much for checking. Still a bit weird that hidden tvct entry causes it to go out, but that seems to be one of the challenges with dtv, different devices seem to be affected by different things.

Mackerel....
Check later tomorrow. I'll do the same change to the rest of the transmitters tomorrow. (except Saskatoon, I have to change something at the station first)

By the way, we're taking down the Lethbridge transmitter tomorrow to convert it. If we're lucky it will be up late tomorrow, if we're less lucky, might take 2 or 3 days.

Cheers!

Dan

Dan,

I'm hesitant to say you found a complete solution, since I have to use a bit of a workaround to get CHAN-HD (8.1).

Windows 7 Media Center. Tasks > Settings > TV > TV Signal > Set Up TV Signal
* Region: United States
* ZIP code: 98226 (Bellingham WA)
Update TV setup data and guide listings for my region (from Zap2it)
Cancel Examining TV Signals and configure manually
* Digital Antenna (Hauppauge WinTV-7164 BDA ATSC/QAM Tuners #1 - #4)
* Analog Antenna (Hauppauge WinTV-7164 Analog Tuners #1 - #4)

At this point, the Guide has a listing for CHANDT 8.1 Global BC HD - Canadian Independent. 100% Digital TV Antenna Signal Strength.

But, I still get the message that, Service is unavailable. There is currently no TV signal detected for this channel. My other DTV channels are OK (CBC,CITY,CTV, OMNI, KVOS)

In order to get Global, I have to Scan for More Channels under the Tasks > Settings > TV > TV Signal. This workaround also fixed my other computer with the ViXS digital tuner.

This leads me to think that the Guide listings and TV data that 7MC downloads from Zap2it is no longer correct for the new PSIP setup.

My Guide data is:
Tasks > Settings > TV > Guide > About Guide Listings
Digital Terrestrial Lineup
ID: 209958054
TV Signal: Digital Antenna (ATSC)
Language: English
End Date: 8/5/2011 7:00:00 PM

You can report guide data issues directly to Microsoft at:
https://connect.microsoft.com/site1145/Feedback

You might have a bit more influence with your credentials and background knowledge.

CHAN is now remapping as usual here, 8.1 on my HVR-1250 and 22.1 on the Samsung HDTV. The past few days I was getting 8.1 on both tuners.

Michael DeAbreu....

I've never used Windows 7 media center. I'll have to set it up and see if I can figure out why that's not working.

Thanks for the link, I'll send them a note.

Cheers!

Dan

You're welcome Dan.

I'm not sure if this helps, but Stampeder (Who knows his stuff!) has this post on Vancouver DTV channels (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1158649&postcount=59).

8.1 22.2 CHAN-DT GLOBAL Vancouver, BCI noticed that it is the 22.2 sub-channel that is mapped to 8.1 virtual. This maybe the TV data that Zap2it provides when setting up media center.

Whereas, Danbcman said that Global is on 22.1
I still get 8.1 correctly and also 22.1 active - same as 8.1.

I honestly have no idea what this means, if anything at all.

Navwizard,

Any idea when I can start scanning for CIII digital in Ottawa? Keep up the good work!