It is on a wooden podium I made that I can easily move or rotate to check for new signals, and it is very close to my garage door. I have yet to try it outside this year, but that should be an interesting test.

As for your other questions:
*Most people seem to have lost Fox, or are having problems receiving it, as per the other posts on this thread

*I get ABC in HD, although it is one of the weaker signals. The antenna is UHF/VHF, so in its current position, I can get all of the local analog channels in excellent quality.

*My TV (LG) does not give precise numbers for signal strength, only ratings on a spectrum of Poor-Average-Excellent. TeleQuebec, NBC and CBS are the strongest (75%+), PBS is right up there also, ABC is just over 50%, but it comes and goes.

*I have not tried TQS yet, but when I do turn the antenna, I can easily get PBS 38- I would rather keep it in its current position (towards Mt.Mansfield), since I can get PBS 33 anyway (and I think there is one extra subchannel).

Hey Guys! I'm wondering if anyone here is from the West Island? If you're what kind of reception do you get with an OTA?

My mother lives near Cornwall, Ontario. The only digital channels she can receive at present are CBOT 4.1 (RF 25), WNPI 18.1 etc (RF 23) and WCFE 57.1 etc (RF 38). CBOFT 9.1 (RF 22) occasionally comes in. Her antenna system needs upgrading and we are considering a CM 4228HD antenna with a CM 7777 preamp. We would like to be able to get WPTZ 5.1 etc (RF 14) and WCAX 3.1 etc (RF 22) but are concerned with co-channel interference on RF 22 from digital CBOFT and RF14 from Analog CJMT. From TV Fool, digital CBOFT on RF 22 has an NM of 4.8 versus an NM of 5.7 for WCAX-DT on the same frequency and CJMT on RF 14 has an NM of 9.6 versus a NM of 5.7 for WPTZ on the same frequency. Aiming the antenna toward the WPTZ and WCAX transmitters on Mt Mansfield would put CBOFT almost exactly 180 degrees to the back side and CJMT would be a little off to the side on the back. Based on these NM values and considering the potential for co-channel interference at our location, is it likely that the directional nature of the CM 4228HD and its associated high front to back ratio, would allow us to receive WPTZ and WCAX?

My previous post above. Yesterday we installed the CM 4228HD, CM 9521A rotator and CM 7777 preamp on my mother's 30 foot tower. WPTZ 5.1 (RF 14, 102 miles) now comes in great but WCAX 3.1 (RF 22, also 102 miles) is not receivable (Zenith DTT901 STB). CBOFT 9.1 (also on RF 22) from Ottawa comes in strong when the antenna is pointed that way but neither RF 22 station comes in when the antenna is pointed toward Mount Mansfield. Looks like the 9.1/3.1 co-channel interference is so significant at my mother's location that even with the CM 4228HD’s high front to back ratio we are unable to achieve the 15 dB difference in signal strength needed to bring in 3.1.

With respect to VHF reception with the 4228HD, analog Channel 13 (CJOH, 61 Miles) from Ottawa comes in great (this will be her main CTV channel when the analog Channel 8 transmitter in Lancaster (8 miles) is shut down), analog Channel 11 (CHCH, 42 miles) comes in quite good and analog Channel 4 (CBOT, 61 miles) in the low VHF band is really not watchable. No trace of any signal from Omni2 on digital Channel 66 and less than 30% signal from Omni1 on digital Channel 27.

In addition, she also now gets digital channels 20.1, 20.2 (Sun TV), 33.1, 33.2, 33.3 and 33.4 (WETK) (occasional pixilation with the 33's but that's her 3rd PBS station).

CBOFT 9.1 (also on RF 22) from Ottawa comes in strong when the antenna is pointed that way but neither RF 22 station comes in when the antenna is pointed toward Mount Mansfield.

One more thing to try -- since the interfering signals are in different places (9.1(22) is from Camp Fortune, and 14 is from Herberts Corners), it's possible that the 'sweet spot' for WCAX 3.1 is not exactly the same as for WPTZ 5.1. This is because the nulls off the back of the CM4228HD need to be adjusted for the deepest null towards camp fortune.

Of course, the problem may just be the difference between the receive power levels of the interfering stations, and the fact that analog co-channel interference is different than digital co-channel interference.

Good Luck.

Brereton 55
All the US networks CBS, NBC,ABC, Fox and both PBS stations which are transmitting from either Mt Mansfield,VT or Lyon Mountain,NY are coming in very well at my location in DDO just off blvd des Sources and Roger Pilon. Fox is not quite as strong but I get a good lock on the signal. I enjoy antenna building so I am using DIY antennas - two SBGH Gen 1 and a jed GH6 to compare performance of different designs.

CIVM, Tele-Quebec is very strong on the West Island with my antenna in almost any direction, however, I have to turn the antenna toward downtown Montreal to get a good lock on TQS. SRC is weak in the West Island (strength 40 on a maximum scale of 100) even with my antenna pointed downtown to the Radio Canada building. I can receive it indoors on the jed GH6 but not the SBGH. I have been unable to receive CBC digital with the signal meter kicking up to only 27. I suspect an outdoor antenna would pull in CBC which is transmitting in low power and at 1/3rd the power of SRC.

My antennas are indoors and frankly, the reception is that good that I have delayed putting an antenna on the roof. I must caution you that every OTA reception location is different. Obstacles like buildings, trees, power lines and house construction itself can affect reception. Moving the antenna a foot or two can make a diference in reception. With weaker stations you have to know where the station is transmitting from and look for that "sweet spot" that brings the station in.

Give it a try and join the fun...

sparky mtl

tvlurker,

I did try to find the “sweet spot” as you suggested. Was hoping to see WCAX 3.1 pop in. I suspect in this case that even if I got Camp Fortune into a deeper null, the angle was such that the CM 4228HD’s narrow beam width caused me to lose too much forward gain on the side of the frontal lobe. I’m going to try again next time I’m down to Cornwall but it looks like CBOFT 9.1 may just be too strong vis a vis 3.1 at this location. I have a friend in Hawkesbury who is in exactly the same situation vis a vis 9.1/3.1 on RF 22. He was getting WCAX 3.1 just fine when it was on RF 53 before the February switchover.

Yes, maybe the difference between analog/digital and digital/digital co-channel interference is helping with the RF 14 situation. But I was quite surprised to see that there was almost no signal on analog 14 (just some ghosts). So notwithstanding TV Fool’s results, perhaps there just isn’t enough receive power from the Herberts Corners’ 14 at this location to cause a problem (is CJMT 14 actually directional, low power?). I will double check the analog 14 reception situation next time I’m down there.

Notwithstanding the above, my mother is absolutely delighted with her new antenna set-up.

Thank you for your very helpful comments. I’ve learned a lot from your posts and from those of the other members of this forum!

I did try to find the “sweet spot” as you suggested. Was hoping to see WCAX 3.1 pop in. I suspect in this case that even if I got Camp Fortune into a deeper null, the angle was such that the CM 4228HD’s narrow beam width caused me to lose too much forward gain on the side of the frontal lobe. I’m going to try again next time I’m down to Cornwall but it looks like CBOFT 9.1 may just be too strong vis a vis 3.1 at this location. I have a friend in Hawkesbury who is in exactly the same situation vis a vis 9.1/3.1 on RF 22. He was getting WCAX 3.1 just fine when it was on RF 53 before the February switchover.

Well, at least you tried. I'm pretty sure the front lobe of the CM4228 drops off more slowly than the rear nulls, but obviously not enough, or not in the right places.

In any case, your mother may be in luck in 2011 -- CBOFT moves to channel 9, but CHCH takes over the 22 spot, but from Herberts Corners. Although HC is closer to you, it's much lower down, and 14 from there doesn't seem to bother you. Also, there's a good chance that CHCH's owner Canwest (if they still own it, that is -- CHCH is for sale) will not build out that digital transmitter.

(is CJMT 14 actually directional, low power?)

Apparently, Rogers applied in 2004 to reduce power AND go directional.

From: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2004/db2004-431.htm

Broadcasting Decision CRTC 2004-431
Ottawa, 29 September 2004
Rogers Broadcasting Limited
Ottawa, Ontario
Application 2004-0212-3

CJMT-TV Toronto and its transmitter CJMT-TV-2 Ottawa - Technical change

1.
The Commission approves the application by Rogers Broadcasting Limited to change the authorized contours of its transmitter CJMT-TV-2 Ottawa by decreasing the average effective radiated power from 435,000 watts to 308,000 watts and by changing the antenna on the tower in Manotick from non-directional to directional.

2.
The licensee indicated that this change will result in a slight decrease in the eastern coverage area.

Does your mother also get WNYF Fox 28 from Massena?
There's also a slight possibility that she can get CBS WWNY from Watertown, although chances are she'll need a full-fledged VHF-High antenna to get that. No hurry -- WWNY may be building a repeater in St Lawrence County in the next year or two.

Thanks again, tvlurker.

I wonder if WNPI 18.1 on RF 23 with its 20 dBm more signal power than adjacent WCAX 3.1 on RF 22 is also affecting our ability to get 3.1. I’m still surprised that there is no discernable analog signal on 14 from either CJMT (NM 9.6) or W14BU (NM 10.6), but whatever the issue, we’re very happy that WPTZ 5.1 also on RF 14 comes in just fine.

Unfortunately, WNYF Fox 28 does not come in (even though the transmitter is only 19 miles away there’s a lot of higher ground between it and my mother’s house and, of course, it’s low power) and there is no signal at all showing for WWNY. A future CBS repeater in St Lawrence County could negate our desire to get WCAX from Mount Mansfield. So with this and the possibility of the conflicting RF 22 from the Ottawa area going away two years from now, there’s hope for CBS yet.

I wonder if WNPI 18.1 on RF 23 with its 20 dBm more signal power than adjacent WCAX 3.1 on RF 22 is also affecting our ability to get 3.1.

I doubt it, especially since 23 is coming in from a different direction.\

or W14BU (NM 10.6),

Is channel 14 in Massena actually broadcasting? (Just because there is an entry in the FCC database used by TVFool, doesn't mean it's actually on the air.
Do you get TBN on channel 20? It has10 times the power of 14 and 28. (And yet, you get SunTV on 20 just fine.)}

“Mystery” solved. Turned out my mother’s TV was set to “Cable” and not to “Air”. I continued to be surprised that she could not get the analog 14’s and WNYF Fox 28 with her new CM 4228HD. I called her this evening to check the signal source setting and asked her to change it (it's a single button press on her remote and far too easily changed by accident). CJMT 14 from Ottawa now comes in very good. Turning the antenna toward Massena, NY brings in a poor picture on 14. This may be from W14BU, but I need to check this out next time I visit my mother (might also be CJMT coming in on the antenna’s larger side lobe?). W20BA is present as well and is very watchable. WNYF Fox 28 from Massena comes in really good too (glad she can get this one)!

So her Zenith DTT901 STB/CM 4228HD antenna/CM 7777 preamp combination is able to bring in the WPTZ 5.1 digital signal on RF 14 notwithstanding two conflicting analog channels on the same frequency but is unable to do the same for the WCAX 3.1 digital signal on RF 22 with a conflicting digital channel (CBOFT 9.1) on the same frequency. And TV Fool shows the power of the conflicting RF 22 digital signal to be less than that of at least one of the conflicting analog signals on RF 14 (and maybe both). As mentioned a few posts back this result may be due to the difference between digital/analog co-channel interference versus digital/digital co-channel interference and/or the inability to tuck the conflicting RF 22 signal deep enough in a backside null on the CM 4228HD and still have enough forward gain to pull in the desired RF 22 signal.

My mother is near 80 years old and has been great about following all my “try this and that’s” over the telephone this past week and she is now even more delighted with her OTA TV. Next time I visit her I will prepare a complete list of the digital and analog channels she receives at her location and post it here.

Thanks for asking those questions tvlurker, otherwise I wouldn't have given this any more thought until my next visit to Martintown.

Thanks for asking those questions tvlurker, otherwise I wouldn't have given this any more thought until my next visit to Martintown.

Thanks for the feedback. It wouldn't have occured to me that the cable/antenna switch would affect the NTSC tuner without affecting the ATSC tuner, so I didn't even think to ask. (It makes sense, though, since the ATSC chanels are found by scanning, and not by inputting in a channel greater than 14 that needs to be unambiguous).

So your mother should be able to get all the Ottawa UHF stations except perhaps 32 CITS:
from Camp Fortune 24,30,34,40 analog and 20, 22, 25 digital
from Herberts Corners: 14, 32(maybe not), 43, 60 ,65 analog and 27/66 digital
from Massena: 14? if it exists, 20, 28
from South Colton: 23 digital (18.1/2/3)
from MtMansfield: 14, 32
from Lyon Mountain: 38
and you may find some other low power transloators from upstate NY as well.

In her case since the separate Zenith digital/analog converter box converts all the ATSC signals to a NTSC signal on analog Channel 3 (same frequency as Cable 3) for her older analog TV, the problem wasn't evident with the digital signals and that was where my major focus was the day we set up the new antenna. I don't know what happens with a digital TV set with both tuners built-in when the TV is on the cable setting. I'm guessing that there would be no reception above Channel 13 for both the analog and digital channels. I can't test at home since my TV's are all analog sets connected to good old Rogers and the analog set in my RV is set up with a converter STB just like my mother's. In any event, my mother and I are both very happy with her OTA reception. Her rural friends and neighbors are flocking to satellite so we just gave them something else to think about.

In her case since the separate Zenith digital/analog converter box converts all the ATSC signals to a NTSC signal on analog Channel 3 (same frequency as Cable 3) for her older analog TV,

Oops, even more obvious. I had forgotten she was using a passthru converter box.
I'm glad it ended up working out well. If Canwest ends up abandoning CHCH in 2011, and CTV ends up abandoning CHRO, that will open up possbilities to get good reception from WCAX on 22 and WFFF Fox on 43 at that time.

Also, when WCWF fires up their new 50kW digital transmitter from Tupper Lake, your mother should give that a try, CHOT analog 40 notwithstanding. (Note that TVFool inaccurately places CHOT in Limoges rather than at Camp Fortune.)

stampeder,

I was looking for the list of stations (Ott., East Ont....). I think I read you are working to update that list. So I guess it cant be accessed on this site yet...am I correct.

also I was wondering if the list will include the Cornwall (in between markets) channels which some get with great difficulties...

thanks as always

Can anyone from the Cornwall, Summerstown, Lancaster, Bainsville, Riviere Beaudette, Dundee, Trout River, Malone, Huntingdon, Ormstown, Valleyfield areas ....or any other nearby areas let me know what Analogues and Digitals are catchable from these areas...and if so, what set-up...


thanks, much appreciated...

Balm, FWIF, I think my mother's house is about 15 miles further away from Mount Mansfield than you are and likely pretty much on the same straight line. She picks up WPTZ 5.1 (and 5.2) just fine. She doesn't get WCAX 3.1 because of strong co-channel interference from CBOFT 9.1 from Ottawa. 33.1 etc comes in with occasional pixilation. She has a 30 foot tower and the base elevation is about 190 feet at her location.

yes, thank you, I have reviewed all your posts.

I ahve a problem with a tower, it will put into or near trees, so height will be an issue.

if you have a chance could you give me list of all digital and analogues your mom can get...I would appreciate that.

WPTZ is not worth the effort I will have put into it, and the 2 easy PBS's are boring, everything is 2 edge deffraction.

I google earthed your moms location and her line runs a little south of mine and crosses even higher terrain between Clinton and Mansfield. So thats a little encouraging for me...

Is there any way to block off the interference (CBOFT - WCAX), are you 100% sure thats the problem...

thanks

Preliminary results from St-Anicet, Que, near Lancaster, Ont - downriver from Cornwall Ont.:

Using a modified mclapp 4 bay:

Digitals:

WNPI(23)-PBS - Norwood, NY
WPBS(41)-PBS- Watertown, NY
WETK(32)-PBS - Mt-Mansfield, Vermont
WPTZ(14)-NBC - Mt-Mansfield, Vermont
WVNY(13)-ABC -Mt-Mansfield, Vermont (Pixelation, drops)
WCFE(38)-PBS - Plattsburgh, NY
CKXT(20)-SUN - Ottawa
CBOT(25)-CBC-Ottawa
CBOFT(22)_SRC-Ottawa
CFMT(27)-OMNI-Gatineau


Analogues:

CFTM(10)-TVA-Montreal
CJOH(8)-CTV-Ottawa
WNYF-LP(28)-Fox-Massena

larelr2003,

WNYF Fox 28 from Massena comes in really good too (glad she can get this one)!


does this mean she gets it at near digital quality? thanks

Balm, "really good" is my best interpretation of my mother's assessment over the telephone for WNYF Fox 28. I kind of doubt that I will describe it as "near digital quality" when I see it for myself. You asked previously if we know for sure that the problem with WCAX 3.1 at her location is indeed co-channel interference with CBOFT 9.1. I don't know for sure but it's my best "guess" at this point. I was suspicious if there might also be an adjacent channel issue with WNPI 18.1 etc (RF 23) but tvlurker suggested that that is unlikely. Interestingly and as I noted previously, a friend in Hawkesbury could get WCAX just fine when it was on RF 53 but can't since it moved to RF 22. I am surprised not to see WCAX in your preliminary list. Next time I get a chance to visit my mother, I will run through everything and make a complete list of her reception.