The Importer,

If you can aim your antenna at 160 degrees magnetic without anything in front of it and a good preamp like the CM7777 you should get all the american channels. No guarantee for ABC.

What antenna did you get ?
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@BOUVAL

The same one I mentioned before, the CHANNEL MASTER CM 4228HD HDTV.

I'll add a few things:

1- I was able to get NBC by turning that antenna a bit (not that I care much about that channel but it's still good to see that I got more channels)

2- How do I know what makes a good amplifier? Any numbers I should be looking at if I go into a store?

3- How exactly would an amp help me get a channel that I can't even see after a channel scan with my TV? I would understand if it woul dhelp me get a channel that I see after a scan but not get a proper signal, but how would it help for channels I don't?

Edit: I just spoke to an expert in an electronic store, he told me that if I can't see the channel after a scan, that no amp in the world will help me, it's all about antenna quality and height.

The Importer,
he told me that if I can't see the channel after a scan, that no amp in the world will help me
False, when you scan and it jams a few seconds on a channel, it means that there is something and with a good preamp like the CM7777 you've got plenty of chances to get it.
it's all about antenna quality and height
True, but he forgot to mention that an antenna has to be outdoor.

I had that preamp the whole summer 'till october, I installed it in Ste-Rose with a modified CM4228HD. My friend gets all the american channels exept FOX and ABC, the reason is the antenna is at the same level as the river.

Here's the beauty: http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n574/BOUVAL-OTA/100_0064-1.jpg

Got to say that with all my experiments since six months, the bigger the antenna the worst the reception is indoor. As an example, a 4 bay antenna is better than an 8 bay indoor or in an attic.
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So if I trade in my DB2 for a channel master 4221 with a preamp CM7777 (is 7778 better?) would I get better signal for the stations the DB2 already receives?

PS. Are the DB4 and CM 4221 similar...any diff?

So if I trade in my DB2 for a channel master 4221 with a preamp CM7777 (is 7778 better?) would I get better signal for the stations the DB2 already receives?
You sure would. The CM7777 has more gain (amplifies more) and that's what you need.

Are the DB4 and CM 4221 similar...any diff?
They are similar, they're both 4 bay antennas but the CM4221 is a little better.

And you won't need a VHF antenna for TVA 10 and CTV 12.
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Great, that answers my question.

One more thing...should we invest in a rotator? If yes, could you suggest one. For the moment the antenna will be installed on the side of the cabin..easy to access...eventually come spring/summer it may get installed on the roof.

Thanks.

One more thing...should we invest in a rotator?
No, you wont need that.

When you'll install your antenna, use a compass and aim it at 184 degrees magnetic and move it more or less 5 degrees 'till you're on target.

The reason of moving it is because of the trees.
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Bouval...thanks for your help. I ordered the stuff today...will keep you posted.

However, I did notice that the antenna is only UHF...and some of the channels are VHF (10 & 12)....how come I am receiving them anyways and would a combo antenna make a difference?

On another site someone said that a DB4 wouldn't be much better for the two VHF stations, and may be worse. It would improve reception of the Montreal stations but would not be enough to dig out CBS/NBC. ...and a preamp only negates cable losses and will not dig out weak signals.

Any thoughts on that? Either way I'm giving it a shot :-)

Thanks.

...and a preamp only negates cable losses and will not dig out weak signals
That's not true, it helps if you have a long cable run and it digs out distant channels.

On another post you wrote that you were getting CBS and NBC sometimes. With a preamp you will get them solid and also PBS, maybe FOX who knows ?

Any good four bay antenna will catch VHF up to a certain distance.
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"It helps if you have a long cable run and digs out distant channels." means exactly the same thing as "negates cable losses." Amplifiers do not improve the signal-to-noise ratio of signals, which is what matters.

Silvercity, for best results multidirectional 8 bay or two CM 4221 are your best solution, one pointing to Montreal and one to US. CM7777 is not your cure all solution. Amplifier boosts the signal and the noise. When you place your antenna outside (on the roof) to compensate for long cable runs you use CM7777 preamp. If without the preamp you get unstable signal, it might make it stable, but it will not make you get more stable channels which you did not get before. You want to get your antenna setup as best as possible and get amplifier only to boost (improve) the signal. Do not order amplifiers from places where you can not return as they might turn out to be expensive waist of money. For new setup, before shelling out cash, experiment. If you have DB2 antenna, build yourself home made DB4 coat hanger antenna to see if reception improves. I think mutidirectional (foldable) 8 bay antenna or one CM 4228 8 bay with a rotor will yield much better results than one CM 4221 with CM7777, a specially when your receiving a signal from two directions. Cheap GE amplifier from CT might be all you need to boost the signal by few bars.
Around Montreal you will get CTV 12.1 and TVA 10.1 on 4 bay UHF antenna (CM4221) even without CM7777 preamp, but digital signals are highly directional (like pointing a satellite dish) so in order to get quality Montreal reception you will have to point the antenna at Mont Royal, loosing most US channels. For this reasoned two CM4221 antennas or one 8 bay multidirectional antenna or one CM 4228 antenna on the rotor is the best solution for Montreal area tv reception.

Amplifiers do not improve the signal-to-noise ratio of signals
Dave Loudin,

Who's talking about signal-to-noise ratio here ?

Anybody needs help with OTA reception in King George County ?
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Silvercity, for best results multidirectional 8 bay or two CM 4221 are your best solution, one pointing to Montreal and one to US
Ogorek, did you even look at Silvercity's TV Fool? Montreal and Burlington are in the same direction.

CM7777 is not your cure all solution. Amplifier boosts the signal and the noise
Ogorek, how do you know for the CM7777? As for noise, Silvercity's reception is from a cabin in the woods. Do you think there will be much noise there?

build yourself home made DB4 coat hanger antenna
Ogorek, Silvercity wrote that he ordered the stuff.

Enough quoting your whole novel. If a fold-able 8 bay suits you needs, it doesn't mean it will for everyone's.

Ogorek, did you even read all Silvercity's posts ?
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My apologies, Bouval, but I was trying to point out that we are saying the same thing, even if you don't think so. Successful digital TV reception is all about exceeding a certain signal to noise ratio at the receiver, about 15 dB. The only device available to increase signal to noise is the antenna. Once the signal reaches the cable, the signal to noise ratio cannot be increased. An amplifier can maintain near that value in long cable runs, but at a cost of a dB or so.

One basic fact is if a signal does not have a sufficient snr after the antenna, nothing can be done to fix it. And, yes, there is noise at a cabin in the woods.

The only device available to increase signal to noise is the antenna. Once the signal reaches the cable, the signal to noise ratio cannot be increased.

good to know...thanks Dave :cool:

Hey Bouval and Dave,

Really appreciate your help...although now I'm not sure how things will turn out :o. As I said, the stuff has been ordered and once it's installed at the cabin I'll update you guys. Curious about the pre-amp...is this something that gets installed indoors...(just like a booster does) or does it connect to the antenna outdoors...if you could point me towards a diagram it would help.

"Silvercity wrote that he ordered the stuff" Oh and btw he is a she :-)

Thx guys.

Preamps normally come in two pieces - the amplifier which is installed as close to the antenna as possible, and the power source that can be installed anywhere along the cable where an outlet is handy. Many people install that power source right by the TV so it is accessible.

about the pre-amp...is this something that gets installed indoors
No, it goes outdoors on the mast under the antenna, see the photo. The preamp is shown with an 8 bay antenna.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n574/BOUVAL-OTA/cm7777zoom.jpg?t=1327467589 But 'till your permanent install you can use it indoor.

Oh and btw he is a she :-)
Glad to read that, if you need on site help simply PM me. Sorry Dave, she's too far from you ;)
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Indeed I did not check Silvercity's location, but now that I did, I will change my "Novel" a bit. Silvercity pre-amp is not your main concern, but the type of antenna and antenna height is. From Rowdon to Mount Mansfield, Vermont is quite a distance, at a minimum I would get an 8 bay antenna, but better yet, I would go to antenna section at this forum and see what others suggest for such a distance. Like I said before it is easy to buy equipment and be disappointed with the results. Do your diligent research before spending a penny. This section of the forum is not the best place to start. Do to the distance, for reliable reception I would invest in quality UHF antenna with as many elements as I would afford, rather than buying 4 bay antenna and a $100+ pre-amp. Any pre-amp, or amp will help but it is the antenna and it's elements which is most important to capture the signal. In your setup your 4 bay antenna will be the weakest link. My two cents. End of the novel.