Can VHF analog overload be a problem if I don't have a pre-amp?
No, to overload you haveto have a pre-amp or an amp.

but UHF can, right?
when Vincent was testing my system, he told me that 17 and 35 were making my reception of dt channels difficult, and I don't have a pre-amp.

but UHF can, right?
when Vincent was testing my system, he told me that 17 and 35 were making my reception of dt channels difficult, and I don't have a pre-amp.
They all can (UHF/VHF) but I don't think it can be a major problem (Here in montreal) except if your are very close (<1km) to the Mont-Royal. And you can add to that FM transmiter that can cause problem.

Even if your are close to the Mont-Royal you have to allign your anttena at least 15 deg off the Mont-Royal.

Here's there's nothing scientific it's just my personal experience.

A little test you can do:

Tune UHF 16
*if you see the 17 almost clear. (It's almost normal)
*if you see that it's the 17 but not much more it's not that bad
*if you see snow that very, very good

Tune UHF 18
*if you see the 17 or have some weird sound and snow that normal
*if you have snow that's very good

Tune UHF 21
If you see and or ear the 17 it's not good but not that bad

Tune UHF 22
*If you have weird line it's very bad.

Tune UHF 26
*If you do not have beatifull snow here it's very bad.

If you have problem with the 17 you will most likely have problem with the 35. The 35 affect mostly 27, 32, 33, 34, 36, 42, 43, 44

For VHF overload it's easier to see in UHF 40 and above but depending of the channel they are affecting different channel (If you have a CM-4228 or a High VHF) it's possible that 10 and 12 cause problem.

Did the test this morning:

16: snow with just occasional bars
18: snow
21: don't see 17
22: well, here I get abc analog, with color, a little snowy
26: beautiful snow!

So what do you think Kro?
Just to recap: after I put my 4228 higher up and added a rotor, I improved my reception of SRC, CBC, CBS and NBC, but sort of lost PBS 33.1 (that was solid before) and Fox 44.1 (that was weak but that I could get once in a while, now never)
I assumed it was because of the increased signal from analog uhf 17 and 35 interfering. Seing my results, do you still think I would benefit from attenuating 17 and 35/

thanks!

Antoine

Just to recap: after I put my 4228 higher up and added a rotor, I improved my reception of SRC, CBC, CBS and NBC, but sort of lost PBS 33.1 (that was solid before) and Fox 44.1 (that was weak but that I could get once in a while, now never)
I assumed it was because of the increased signal from analog uhf 17 and 35 interfering. Seing my results, do you still think I would benefit from attenuating 17 and 35/
Your are not overloading. Since you do not have a pre-amp you have to be super carefull with everything. First the Balun make sure the legs: are not twisted, are not touching anything, are not zizaging. Double check any connector.
But you should put a pre-Amp that has less than 20 db(UHF) of Gain (Winegard have some)

Hi guys,

Just thought I'd post an update on my setup. I finally got around to picking up a Wade-Delhi 5Y13S antenna from Montcalm to receive WVNY. I also asked about getting a wider diameter mast. In the process, I realized that I had mounted the CM4221 completely wrong: I hadn't used the U-clamps at all, I had just stuck the old .75" pole I was using through the gaps behind the bowties and fixed it with some tiewraps. By using a proper 10', 1.25" diameter mast, the U-clamps fit properly and everything is much more solid.

So now my setup consists of a CM4221, 5Y13S and a CM7778 combiner/preamp. The CM7778 was set to non-combiner mode by default, and the FM trap seemed to make the VHF reception worse, so I disabled that too (It took me a while to figure out that I had to open up the CM 7778 to access the switches -- colour me dumb). I oriented the CM4221 in a kind of "compromise position", between Mount Mansfield and Montreal to get both the American stations and CBC.

One nice surprise is that the preamp in the 7778 really improved my reception of the UHF channels -- for some reason I didn't think that the ATSC tuners would benefit from preamp'ing on the UHF side. Fox in particular went from being pretty flaky at best to very solid. The rest went from signal strength 90 to 98, which gave me more flexibility in the "compromise" position. The 5Y13S I could point directly at Mount Mansfield, since its only purpose is to get WVNY. In that role, it performs admirably given the weak signal, giving me SS of 70: I get dropped frames every 15 minutes or so, which is bearable.

I went away on a business trip and I was very happy to sit down with Lost in HD on my DVR when I returned. It also had another very unexpected effect: having an HD setup turned my wife into a hockey fan. I really didn't see that one coming.

Anyway, thanks again to you guys for all your help.

FM trap seemed to make the VHF reception worse, so I disabled that too Hum I forgot to try that thank's.

It also had another very unexpected effect: having an HD setup turned my wife into a hockey fan. I really didn't see that one coming.

same here, having no cable or SAT bill is also very addictive

By the way, Sunday 18h30 at 2.1 SRC, they show the french version of Discovery channel's "Planet earth"; it's just beautiful.

I moved the antenna in the attic numerous times and I can't get better reception than the results posted in 385.

My results are above my expectation, specially given that my only weak channels is:
43 (44.1)

From other threads I see that 43 (44.1) is not broadcasting at full strength and it will do so after the transition period.

Therefore I see no further need to continue trying to tweak my results for UHF.

The problem now is VHF-13 (22.1), I purchased and set-up a 10y13s channel 13 specific antenna in the attic. I placed the antenna in at least 10 different places in the attic, I placed it high and low. I connected it to the CM7777 amplifier, disconnected the amplifier and put the cable straight to the TV's tuner. Purchased the GE pre-amp from addison, placed 2 filters in line, the whole to no avail. (Yes, I opened the CM7777 pre-amp and selected seperate UHF and VHF signals).

Not only was I not able to lock into the signal, not once did the signal meter read anything whatsoever. It stayed at 0%.

I also took the antenna out of the attic, placed it out of a window of my second floor which faces the tower(again with and without the amplifiers) and still I got absolutely no signal whatsoever.

I did the normal troubleshooting, replaced the ends of the RG-6 cable, replaced the cable altogether, changed the Balun/transformer, pointed the antenna in different directions, etc...

I can catch other digital channels with the 10y13s antenna alone such as 2.1, 6.1 and 35.1 as well as other analog channels. This tells me that the wiring is ok.

So, perhaps I'm doing something wrong here.

Can someone here confirm the foregoing:
The back of the antenna is where the balun is attached to;
The connection screws of the antenna (which go to the balun) point towards the ground;
The front of the antenna points towards the transmission tower;
The boom (sp?) is level to the ground;

Could there be some overload from channel 12?

Maybe a channel 13 jointenna will help?

Maybe a channel 13 jointenna will help?

maybe putting the antenna over the roof is the only solution

as I live near St-Sauveur and I get 22.1 with only the UHF CM4228 and a 15 years old radio-shack pre-amp

Edsd:
Ok you tried a lot of thing... Looking at Google eart with TVFool map I see that you have less signal than I do for WVNY-DT (You actually get a little less than for WFFF-DT).


Could there be some overload from channel 12?
You have tryied:
10y13s->Balun->RG6->TV Tuner and you had 0% signal. If that so you can remove the Overload of the possible cause.

For the 0% signal it may not mean much each tuner have their own way of reporting the signal strenght. I have 2 tuner a LG and a Hisense. The hisense will report 0% almost until it lock. With the LG i can know when there even just a little bit of signal.

You don't happen to have another tuner or the possibility to borrow one?


Can someone here confirm the foregoing:
The back of the antenna is where the balun is attached to;

Yes.


The connection screws of the antenna (which go to the balun) point towards the ground;

Yes.


The front of the antenna points towards the transmission tower;

Yes.


The boom (sp?) is level to the ground;

You can play with that. I'm able to get WVNY-DT at 95-100% by tilting the attena (So it's looking a bit Up) I don't do that because it totally screw up CFCF 12 and CFTM-10.

Don't forget that the 10y13s is very very directional.

How are the other analog VHF (11, 9, 8, 7)?

Kro,

I put the antenna on my rear balcony with a mast of about 8 feet, so it's currently 12 feet off the ground.

I tried the antenna without any amps.

I tried rotating the antenna, each time the front only budged a few centimetres, the best result I had was a max reading of 28% but said reading would fluctuate between 0-28%.
0% appears for 5 seconds, then 28% for 2 seconds.

This is the results with only the 10y13s attached and no pre-amp:
2 - Colour image, 50% snow
6 - Coulour image, 60% snow
7 - Black and White image, 80% snow
9 - Ghost image from channe 2, 90% snow
10 - clear image, 0% snow
11 - snow with some horizontal patterns of snow
12 - clear image, 0% snow
17 - image is fuzzy

Do you think that my only option is to place the antenna on the roof?

On another matter, I did the test in post#394 with my CM4228 and CM7777 pre-amp from my attic,
I get no image or sound on 16, 18, 21, 22 and 26 but I do get channel 17's image on channel 24, is this normal?

I tried rotating the antenna, each time the front only budged a few centimetres, the best result I had was a max reading of 28% but said reading would fluctuate between 0-28%.
0% appears for 5 seconds, then 28% for 2 seconds.

This is the results with only the 10y13s attached and no pre-amp:
2 - Colour image, 50% snow
6 - Coulour image, 60% snow
7 - Black and White image, 80% snow
9 - Ghost image from channe 2, 90% snow
10 - clear image, 0% snow
11 - snow with some horizontal patterns of snow
12 - clear image, 0% snow
17 - image is fuzzy

All your VHF channel seem very low (By the way 9 is SRC shrerbrook).
Just to give you an Idea here's my result for the same test:
2- Clear image 10% snow
3-image 90% snow
5-image 80% snom
6- Clear
7- Color but very snowy
8- Color but very snowy
9- Black and white snowy
10-Clear
11-Very very snowy (Global Sherbrook)
12- Clear.
13- WVNY 75%


I know you change the balun but what kind of balun is it? If you did not already done it I would try an interior balun (Reno $2.50 Addison .99$)they give much better result than those for outside.

Do you think that my only option is to place the antenna on the roof?

Yes but try the balun first.


On another matter, I did the test in post#394 with my CM4228 and CM7777 pre-amp from my attic,
I get no image or sound on 16, 18, 21, 22 and 26 but I do get channel 17's image on channel 24, is this normal?
24 is Telequebec sherbrook and 30 is TQS Sherbrook. (I get them pretty clear.)

maybe putting the antenna over the roof is the only solution

as I live near St-Sauveur and I get 22.1 with only the UHF CM4228 and a 15 years old radio-shack pre-amp

I just replaced the 28db radioshack preamp for a CM7777. TV is now changing channels a LOT faster than before, got better results over all channels including analog VHF and digital 13.x

CM4228 antenna elevation is 300 meters, got an indoor 300-75 ohms adapter from Addison, the cm7777 preamp, 100 feet long rg-6 then the 7777 power-supply, a 3 way splitter and finaly the 500$ 32 inches LCD tv with ATSC tuner.

I live near St-Sauveur in the Laurentian mountains.

Thanks Kro,

I tried 3 different outdoor baluns from Addisson, all with the same result, I'll pass by tonight or tomorrow to pick-up an indoor balun from Reno-Dêpot.

The indoor balun, is that the one which already has connectors crimped on the end (the connectors are in the shape of a "Y")?

However, am I correct when I state that my 10y13s antenna is specifically made for channel 13 and that's the reason why I get such lousy reception on all other VHF channels?

Is there a possibility that the antenna is faulty?

I am also picking-up a huge yagi type antenna from a local private seller for cheap, here's a picture:

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4701/yagiku6.th.jpg

Any thoughts on this antenna?

Hopefully this antenna will fit in my attic, otherwise I'll sell it for the purchase price.

The indoor balun, is that the one which already has connectors crimped on the end (the connectors are in the shape of a "Y")?
Yes.

However, am I correct when I state that my 10y13s antenna is specifically made for channel 13 and that's the reason why I get such lousy reception on all other VHF channels?
Yes, It's very good at VHF 13 (10 db), Good at VHF 9, Rabbit ears at VHF 6, Not much at VHF 2.

Any thoughts on this antenna?
Be carefull with that! It has a lot of gain on low VHF and FM, The VHF 2 and FM will most likely overload the Pre-Amp. (Even with the pre-amp FM Trap you can have problem).

I tried 3 different outdoor baluns from Addisson, all with the same result, I'll pass by tonight or tomorrow to pick-up an indoor balun from Reno-Dêpot.

I think maddtronics in Mascouche got the indoor balun; I got mine in Ste-Therese and yes it made a difference; may be it pick less noise than my older adapter.

I bought a Win 4800 pre-amp go to with my DB8 antenna. Basically, I now pick up all the local and U.S. stations (except ABC - needs a VHF antenna for now) including FOX 44 (93+ miles away). I do NOT have a ROTOR, so I aim my antenna S-E to pick up all my stations. All stations have a signal strength between 75 to 90%, except for FOX that usually shows up in the 40 to 50% range. I do not feel like I now need a ROTOR anymore because I am getting all the stations I need at acceptable levels. Basically I had to play arround with the direction of my antenna to find the best direction - my neightbors looked on in amazement. I now have all the FREE TV I need!!! We still have local stations that have NOT yet gone digital, but YES their signals and quality come in great (but because they are not digital, I will probably not watch them anyways). The digital stations I receive are:
2.1 Radio Canada
3.1 CBS (+ 3.2 for weather)
5.1 NBC (+ 5.2 for weather)
6.1 CBC
33.1/33.2/33.3/33.4 Vermont PBS
35.1 TQS
44.1/44.2 FOX
55.1/55.2/55.3 PBS Burlington

where is the location of the fox 44 broadcast antenna? I can get them fine in Prevost. I know I'm 184 km away from Mt Mansfield and I get all the channels fine.

since last week, CBC Analog is significantly weaker than SRC, am I the only one who notice this problem ?