First things first, thanks for the responses. :)

Here is my tv fool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf4e9b2d950c6

I would love to try mounting the antenna on the roof but it goes without saying that January in Canada is not the ideal time to be messing around on the roof. Hopefully in the spring.

I shall patiently await your interpretations of my tvfool report. I'm certainly not opposed to adding a second vhf antenna if it will be easier to pull cbs and fox from watertown. Worst case, if it doesn't work for me, I'll give it to my dad in Kingston, I'm guessing they can pick it up across the lake.

MaxPower,

Moving your CM4228 to the roof may be enough to allow you to receive CBS and FOX on 18. I would give that a try before getting a VHF antenna to receive 7. Even though 7 is 2dB stronger, it may be more difficult to receive since it is on VHF.

As for a pre-amp, it might help if you have long cable runs or are splitting the signal for multiple tuners.

Hello

I am replacing my current junk antenna which was on the house when we bought 12 years ago although my desire is to build.

I am overwhelmed with all the different design specs and which one is best suited for me so recommendations/advise would be appreciated. The desired end result is a happy wife (READ: clear TV signals and FM radio through out the house).

My current antenna runs into a Leviton amp (48210-VA), into a Leviton splitter via patch cord (wiring closet in the basement) then to the rec room and upstair TVs...soon to be upgraded to current LCD TVs. Terrain is flat all around and open to the north (open fields) but closed to the South (tress). Would prefer to avoid rotor if at all possible.

Am sourcing tower if required (and reason for all the TVFool reports below).
TV Fool 25' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dda32286e882ebe
TV Fool 30' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dda328d92f15e19
TV Fool 35' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dda324ef76e6675
TV Fool 40' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dda3204882bcd67
TV Fool 45' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dda325d0342dd7b

Would love to get back PBS (WNPE/WNPI) and bonus if US channels can be received however channel expectations are realistic. I currently get really snowy reception of the following although the clearer ones are 13, 43, 24, 30 and most times 65:
4 CBOT (CBC)
6 Global
9 CBOFT (Radio-Canada)
11 CH
13 CJOH (CTV)
14 (Omni 2 expected to go on air soon)
24 TVOntario
30 Tele-Quebec
32 CTS
34 CFGS (TQS)
36 CBC (Smith Falls??)
40 CHOT (TVA)
43 New RO (CHRO)
60 Omni 1
65 City TV

Have read FAQs, have gone through Antenna Research & Development, Signal Amplifiers (Amps, Preamps, Distro Amps); Stacking, Ganging, Combining TV Antennas; OTA Mounts, Towers, Rigging Hardware and a few others of the lighter reading section (including Bitterman"s account) and my head hurts. Now it is time to ask for help.

If I have somehow missed the correct area for posting please let me know.

Regards and thanks in advance.

Hi Rogue and welcome!

I saw the picture of your antenna in your other post and I agree it is worth replacing. I would also defiantly replace the downlead with a piece of good quality RG6 (is that a press-on connector?). I would also recommend using a pre-amp instead of your Leviton distribution amp.

Have you tried receiving any of the local digital channels? You will need a newer TV or an OTA digital box.

You are in a great location should be able to receive all the Ottawa locals as well as PBS (on 23), CBS and FOX (both on 18) from the US. Getting FM as well could be problems as you might have to choose it and Global TV (an FM trap is usually necessary to receive it).

I am not an expert on DIY antennas, but there are many experts here. Not sure if there are many good DIY antennas that will receive Global on channel 6 though.

Thanks roger

For some odd reason the current lead goes down the side of the house through a basement window then across the width of the basement. seems a waste to begins with. The downlead is scheduled to be replaced as I rewired my basement a couple years back due to a flood and have a new lead laid out (RG6/U) but did not think it was worth the aggro to connect it without a new antenna. the overriding factor is final placement of antenna and components needed (ie preamp). IIRC it is a press-on but I could be mistaken.

On Pre-amp... I was not aware they actually had a power source (downloaded the manual for the CM 7777) and am confused (easily) about were to place it with all the references of it having to be as close to the antenna as possible. Since I have no outlets in the attic (but have not decide the run anyways) does the preamps power source also have to be "as close to the antenna as possible"?

DIY to me is a GH...just do not know which version/model/type.

Thanks again

For some odd reason the current lead goes down the side of the house through a basement window then across the width of the basement. seems a waste to begins with.

Without knowing the layout of your house, I can't comment on the routing, though through a window doesn't sound very good.

The downlead is scheduled to be replaced as I rewired my basement a couple years back due to a flood and have a new lead laid out (RG6/U) but did not think it was worth the aggro to connect it without a new antenna. the overriding factor is final placement of antenna and components needed (ie preamp). IIRC it is a press-on but I could be mistaken.

From what you are saying, the simple act of replacing the cable may greatly improve your reception. It likely won't be enough, but certainly worth doing.

On Pre-amp... I was not aware they actually had a power source (downloaded the manual for the CM 7777) and am confused (easily) about were to place it with all the references of it having to be as close to the antenna as possible. Since I have no outlets in the attic (but have not decide the run anyways) does the preamps power source also have to be "as close to the antenna as possible"?

The CM manual is a bit misleading. You want the amp as close to the antenna as possible. The power injector (the piece you plug in) can be anywhere, but you need to make sure you don't have any splitters between it and the amp as most will block the power from getting to the amp. A good location might be where you have your distribution amp. For more details see the Signal Amplifiers (Amps, Preamps, Distro Amps) (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=42426) thread.

DIY to me is a GH...just do not know which version/model/type.

I will let others advise you on this one, but AFAIK, none of them will receive Global TV on channel 6, so you will need a separate antenna for that.

Here is my TVfool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf41a53efdd7a

Upgraded from an old radioshack antenna to a 8-bay bowtie type antenna -- didn't realize that it was a clone until reading through this site today (thought I had got a good deal, ah well).

H/W: 35ft on top of tower, China antenna clone, CM-7777 preamp (FM filter in), 80-100ft of RG6, Sony EX400 tv.

Based on local topography/compass I am pointing approx 141degress (toward WNPI).

Was receiving WNPI on 18.1 without a preamp and haphazard antenna pointing (I think the US is that way, probably off by 15-20deg), purchased a CM-7777 and installed it hoping to get CBS/FOX. After install, WNPI/CKXT(sun) seems to be more finicky -- to get both of them I have to careful play with the angle of the antenna, and NO luck getting CBS/fox.

Channels:
4, 4-1
6 good
9-1
11 ... ghosting
13 .. small amount of ghosting
14 ..good
17-1
18-1,18-2,18-3 PBS
20-1
24 ... tearing
27-1 DTV Air OMNIHD
30
32 good
34
40
43 good
57.1,57.2 -- requires turning the antenna
60 good
65 good
66-1

Any suggestions?

Here is my tv fool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf4e9b2d950c6

I would love to try mounting the antenna on the roof but it goes without saying that January in Canada is not the ideal time to be messing around on the roof. Hopefully in the spring.

I shall patiently await your interpretations of my tvfool report. I'm certainly not opposed to adding a second vhf antenna if it will be easier to pull cbs and fox from watertown. Worst case, if it doesn't work for me, I'll give it to my dad in Kingston, I'm guessing they can pick it up across the lake.

MaxPower - your TVFool report looks very similar to mine. In fact, you seem to have slightly better numbers than I do, which is good for you. My TVFool report is found on my "homepage URL"...click on my username...

I have a Winegard YA-1713 for VHF-HI and a CM4228HD for UHF in my attic with a CM7777 pre-amp. The setup works well for my location. I'm able to pull in all the digital locals without any issue, as well as PBS, CBS and Fox from NY. The local analogs like Global and CTV are not as good for me, but hopefully we won't have to worry about them as much once the transition to digital is complete this summer.

I too will be looking to mount stuff outside when Spring arrives.

The local analogs like Global and CTV are not as good for me, but hopefully we won't have to worry about them as much once the transition to digital is complete this summer.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. CIII, CBOFT and CJOH will all use their analog frequencies post transition, so if your analog reception of them is poor, you may have difficulties receiving them reliably. I am especially concerned about CIII as not only is it on VHF-LO, but channel 6 is extremely susceptible to interference from all the high power FM stations also transmitting from Camp Fortune. You may need a VHF LPDA (or better yet two VHF Yagis--one for VHF-HI and one for VHF-LO) pointed at Camp Fortune.

Hello again,

Well I have ordered a CM 7777 and hopefully it arrives by the end of next week. If you are right jrmclean and I can get cbs and fox I'll be pleased with that.

I'm also hoping when everything goes digital the current analog channel issues will be a thing of the past. I guess only time will tell for sure.

I was actually using a home made centipede antenna prior to the 4228. I found that when I positioned that by hand I was able to get excellent global reception. I may actually rig that up as my "vhf" antenna input to the cm7777.

Anyhow, I'll report back once it has arrived and I have played with it a bit.

Okay, trying the CM-7777 in and out of the path from the antenna. Using the combined input with the FM filter IN.

No preamp: ch6-noisy, ch11-fuzzy, PBS 18.1/2/3 coming in solid. SunTV solid. Don't have to be as exact with the direction of the antenna to get the local digital channels and PBS.

Preamp: all of the analogs come in clearer (FM filter working?). I receive 18.1/2/3 but not CBS/Fox. Either SunTV and PBS(18.1/2/3) will have symbol problems depending on antenna orientation. I can pick up 57.1/2/3 if I am careful about antenna orientation.

TVfool report (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf41a53efdd7a)

Okay, trying the CM-7777 in and out of the path from the antenna. Using the combined input with the FM filter IN.

No preamp: ch6-noisy, ch11-fuzzy, PBS 18.1/2/3 coming in solid. SunTV solid. Don't have to be as exact with the direction of the antenna to get the local digital channels and PBS.

Preamp: all of the analogs come in clearer (FM filter working?). I receive 18.1/2/3 but not CBS/Fox. Either SunTV and PBS(18.1/2/3) will have symbol problems depending on antenna orientation. I can pick up 57.1/2/3 if I am careful about antenna orientation.

TVfool report (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf41a53efdd7a)

CBS/Fox on RF 18 can be susceptible to an intermod product from CFMT analog 14 and CBOFT digital 22.

SunTV on RF 20 can be susceptible to an intermod product from CIVO 30 and CBOT-DT 25.

PBS on RF 23 can be susceptible to an intermod product of CBOT-DT 25 and CFMT-DT 27.

Since the first and third intermod examples above are each between transmitters from different locations, judicious tweaking of the antenna position may help you out. As for SunTV, it will probably disappear soon (and channel 20 will be used for CJMT), so situation may change.

CHCH will move to 22 in August when CBOFT-DT reverts to 9, so that may change things as well.

I suggest you consider a brand name antenna like the cm4228hd to get a better gain vs your 8-bay clone. With the 7777 and the Sony TV tuner, if you're lucky and the Sony TV tuner is good, you'll have a good chance of getting WNYF-LD (CBS/Fox) all day. I just point my 4228hd towards WNYF (Massena) and i get WNYF,WCFE,WNPI. Also Sun, coming off the back. Check my TVFool off my "Home Page" for comparison.

malstew,

I am in Barrhaven, so following might give you another reference. I have a SBGH6 with CM7777 mounted on the side of my house probably around 15 feet from ground (definitely not ideal). I was able to receive FOX/CBS reasonably well with occassional pixelation but definitely watchable on a Samsung TV. The antenna is pointing mostly south (170-180 degrees)

From HDhomerun... with CM7777 (will post without when it warms up a bit and I can go out and remove it)
Real Channel(signal strength, signal quality, symbol qual)
17 CITYHD 100/100/100
18 WWNY-HD 80/40/0 (jumping in and out...mostly out)
22 CBOFT-D 100/65/(jumping from 30..100..40..100..60..100..)
23 WNPI-HD 98/86/(jumping from 100..17..100..10..100..7..)
25 CBOT-DT 100/75/100
27 OMNI1HD 100/92/100
66 OMNI2HD 100/100/100

Skycan,
I have a tower -- so the antenna probably around 35ft, probably also in the highest part of Barrhaven -- up near the big brown water tower on Fallowfield.

Flavoie -- The plan is to get a better antenna. CM4228HD seems to be what works around here. Also plan to get a separate VHF antenna (or make one).

tvlurker -- why might I have problems with intermod products whereas others don't?

Rogue,
(South of Kemptville ... based on TV fool, looks like good spot for OTA)

According to the TV Fools you posted ...

Height appears to help your situation. Also since you mention trees to the South, height might be needed if you want to clear trees to your south and get reliable signals from the south - not sure ... have to see exact situation.
Are trees to your south really high?

PBS 18.1 goes from 1 edge at 25 ft to LOS at 30 ft.
(you have a tower now? about how high is it?)
(you said you'd like PBS back. You had PBS before? Previous place?)
(personal opinion - go high up in your situation)

Rogue, you mention Wife would like whole house with quality TV and FM, OTA.
You mention you would like to avoid rotor. So if multiple people are watching and/or listening to (different) OTA TV and FM simultaneously in the house ... that means some sort of distribution system in the house ... possibly multiple antennas pointed and combined or with separate down leads. Not sure. Multiple antennas/combining/distribution system... could get complex.

A good antenna and ROTOR would normally help in your situation - I think.

Pre-Amp.
Good quality, low noise pre-amp at top of tower might help - esp with long cable runs.
[the Leviton amp ... if it is a distribution amp ... is not designed to be used as a pre-amp. It probably will have a higher noise figure. Not a good idea to use it as a pre-amp]
(switchable on/off pre-amp ... w/switchable on/off FM Trap ?)
(amplify/no amplify&signal pass. fm trap in or out, independent, remotely)

[Open question to Forum ... Does anyone make a pre-amp like that ? FM trap and amplifier both independently remotely switchable on/off.]

idea: try to find a way to route cable into house to minimize its length. if it means drilling a hole through the wall ... might be worth the effort. Have it done properly. Drip loop, caulked/sealed well. No sharp bends or angles on the cable. Respect minimum radius of coax on bends. Careful.

As suggested I changed the antenna from an 8-bay clone to a CM4228HD.

With a poorly positioned (pointing "SE-ish") CM4228HD immediately I gained CBS/Fox on 18, and WCFE on 57.1/2/3. Just installed it tonight so I'll have to find out tomorrow if I still get them during the day.

Sadly, the CM4228HD "lost" analog channels 6/13. Actually CIII-TV-2 is coming in better than CIII-TV-6... fuzzier but not distorted. Going to try aiming the antenna more accurately tomorrow and see if maybe 6/13 are sitting at a null point in the current position.

Reception is on a Sony TV (no signal strength #'s because it doesn't seem to give them).

I have an HD view 360 up on the roof (30 ft height) and I have been getting great reception on the Canadian stations available in the area. I'd like to try and get some of the US stations (for the wife) and I'm wondering if getting a 4228HD to test as a separate antannae would be worthwhile or are the US stations out of range? If they are out of range would the 4228HD be likely to pull in more Canadian stations than the HDView 360? Thanks for the help ...My TV fool follows http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf4d56841350d Regards Doug

You’re in a tough spot there landowner, those US stations are a long way off and no NBC, ION or Mytv on your fool list, almost not worth it. I do not think a 4228 is going to do it, you need deep fringe. They are barely within reach with the right equipment. You will need to pull out all the stops top get them. But with hi gain and pre amping, what will the strong local channel affect be?

The only US station you might get occassionally would be PBS WNPI, and even that would be a long shot.

Do you get all 6 Canadian digital stations right now (CBC, SRC, CITY, SunTV, OMNI1, OMNI2)? If so, you're set to get the rest of the stations when they convert to digital by August 31.