jrmclean and backpackster, please have a look through the following thread and let us know here if you come across a suitable description in there of the type of ghosting/interference you are seeing on CJOH 13:

Troubleshooting Analogue OTA (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=105230)

My reception of CTV (13) is exactly like the ghosting described in this post (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1135034&postcount=24).

I'll try to measure the offset of the ghosted image from the main image and do the math
to determine a possible distance from where the secondary signal path starts as explained in that thread.

I'm not sure how I could tilt the YA-1713 due to the way it attaches at the mast?

OK, to illustrate (I love pictures)....here's a screenshot of my TV on CJOH. I played with the contrast and lighting of the picture to make the ghosting and vertical bands on the left side more easily visible.

It looks like I have some type of vertical bands on the left third of the picture and 2 ghosted images to the right. The first one I drew a red line from the main picture to the negative of the first ghost and a yellow line to the second ghost. In reality, watching 13 is not this bad, I just made it very obvious to illustrate the problem

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/picture.php?albumid=614&pictureid=3125

Can't wait till they switch over....

I never investigated further as I believe trying to perfect analog reception can be dangerous to your health.

However one not so obvious way to get perfect CJOH (in the east end anyway) is to aim your antenna to Cornwall and watch it on 8. I get perfect CTV this way.

I'm starting to see what you mean about the health concerns....
I'll try pointing the yagi in the direction of 8...but at a NM of -12.7dB, it may be a stretch for me..

Following up on jrmclean's question about his TVFool report showing better Noise Margin at lower heights than greater heights. I see the same thing for some of my american channels, and i don't have a clue why. It seems that higher is not always better according to the TVFool reports. The exception here is WCFE, because it becomes LOS at 30 feet or so instead of 2Edge.

my report at 1 foot
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da362539cf28f7f

WNPI 9.2 NM
WCFE 0.7
WNYF -0.2
WWNY -3.4

my report at 30 feet
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da362c2e644059f
WNPI 0.9 NM
WCFE 9.3
WNYF -8.5
WWNY -13.1

So far it is rock solid..no pixelating, no dropouts; including daytime. However, it has only been 1 day, so I'll keep watching to see how it does over the next week. I can only measure the strength of signal using my Sony TV signal meter.

Ok, it's been just over a week now and I thought I would update with my reception of 28.1/28.2. It has been solid all week. Signal strength as measured by the TV varies from 10-20 during the day to 30-50 in the evenings. Last night, the signal showed 65, but I think there may be some "summer-like" reception happening this weekend. I only watch TV regularly at night, so this looks very promising. There was one night I did see some pixelating, but it didn't last long and was very minor.

Last night, I tried another channel scan and to my surprise I was able to lock in 7.1/7.2 from Watertown. This is the first time, I've seen it so i don't expect it will be there reliably.

Hi

I would like to install a tower about 30' and I think an antenna and rotor, not sure. I have 3 TV's but I alone watch TV here. I am interested in the Ottawa and the Watertown stations any suggestions regarding equipment. TV Fool report

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da362c277cf2efa

Hi, back again after 6 mos or so. We have decided we will be buying -not building an antenna- due to an admitted lack of both time and appropriate knowledge. That being said we are both a little overwhelmed by all the discussions here and are wondering if we will ever comfortably start speaking "directional signal", "range" and "model numbers" like all others who venture out on this site speaking in lay terms :-). So...

We currently use an Omega model OVA_676A UHF/VHF/FM 'rabbit ears' -or flying saucer as our adult kids refer to it. These are set up right beside the TV on the first floor of our home. We get pretty good reception on all but a couple of the stations/networks referenced in this thread. We do not get the 18s (PBS?) or 36, but we do get (according to our tuner):
4-1 DTV Air CBOT-DT (CBC)
6 Air (Global)
9-1 DTV Air CBOT-D (CBC)
11 Air (CHCH)
13 Air (CTV)
14 Air (OMNI)
17-1 DTV Air CityTV
20-1 DTV Air CKXTDT3
24 Air (TVO)
27-1 DTV Air OMNIHD
30 Air
32 Air (CTS)
34 Air
40 Air
43 Air (A)
60 Air OMNI
65 Air (CityTV)
66-1 DTV Air OMNI2HD

our TV Fool signal analysis results are:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a3d2089b9a3d

As mentioned the above channels all come in 'relatively well', occasionally we have to get up and dance with the rabbit ears to get the perfect spot (which sometimes involves backing away slowly tweaking the placement of the ears 'just so' as our interference lets up slightly depending on how close we are to the antenna :-). For the most part that is only once or twice an evening but is still one of the reasons we would like to get 'better' reception.

I guess I have two areas of concern:
1) if the analogue signals are being dropped sometime next year, should we wait to move up to an outdoor (or attic) antenna...will it make a difference to our choices for today verses next year; and,
2) if budgetary concerns are the primary concern for the system should we go for what seems to be the defacto standard for this area (CM4221HD) or if those of you who have done it here in Barrhaven, if you could do it again, would you do it different?

As a final question, we noticed that "the source" has a TERK indoor/outdoor antenna for $99...if anyone is familiar with this product we would appreciate your comments.

Thanks, T&Q

Did anyone have problems with Global (CIII-TV-6) last night? Depending on the tuner, it varied from complete snow to sound with an unwatchable picture for me. I think it may have been a good tropo night so maybe I was getting interference from either CBMT or CJOH-TV-6 (Deseronto). I really need to get a better VHF-LO antenna.

Roger, not sure what your current VHF lo antenna is, but I picked up a Delhi VIP-302SR, a "relatively" small VHF lo+hi antenna at less than 5 feet, for my attic. I figured it was a good candidate for an attic install, to be pointed right at Camp Fortune. You'll have no trouble finding it in Ottawa.

Did anyone have problems with Global (CIII-TV-6) last night? Depending on the tuner, it varied from complete snow to sound with an unwatchable picture for me. I think it may have been a good tropo night so maybe I was getting interference from either CBMT or CJOH-TV-6 (Deseronto). I really need to get a better VHF-LO antenna.
I wasn't watching TV last night.
Co-channel NTSC interference would not result in "snow" on a local NTSC channel. Generally, you'd either get venetian blind interference, or see phase shifted images from the other channel.

However, a very strong ATSC signal would look like snow on top of a local signal. There is an ATSC station on channel 6 in Schenectady, NY.
Did you try scanning for new ATSC stations in case it was a tropo event?

But it's probably more likely to be a transmitter issue. Any other reports?

Same here for Channel 6 last night. No snow but that is only because my set shows a blank screen along with "NO SIGNAL".

valve

I picked up a Delhi VIP-302SR, a "relatively" small VHF lo+hi antenna at less than 5 feet, for my attic.

Yes, I have been thinking about that one. How well does it perform for Global? Also, how wide is it? The specs only say length and turning radius (4'8.5" and 5'2" respectively) and my rough calcs put it at over 9' wide, which seems awfully big for an attic (this actually seems a bit big as you would only need about 8 ½' for channel 2).

I also have a line on some channel 6 cut-channel Yagis at a good price, but I would have to have them shipped to Ogdensburg and pick them up there. It would be longer (about 6') though not as wide (probably about 5 ½') and wouldn't do VHF-HI, but will provide a better gain on channel 6, which is where I expect the problems to be.

Hi roger, i shall let you know about the Delhi, as it is still in a box right now. But I hope i'll be installing it soon !

Yes, I have been thinking about that one. How well does it perform for Global? Also, how wide is it?

Installed the Delhi VIP 302SR this week-end. Very light, easy to setup. The elements pop back to their location like an umbrella, the only thing you need to do is add your own balun and screw it to the balun terminals. Oh, there's also 2 plastic end caps. It has it's own U-bolt so all I needed was an attic mast bracket and mast.

It is indeed a bit less than 5 foot long, almost 9 foot wide in the back (minus 2 inches). While the back element is big, the rest quickly becomes shorter toward the front of the antenna. If you look at Panamark's pics of his vip 302sr, you'll notice it's only the 2 back elements that are oversized. I managed to move it around and point it roughly towards CF. I had to move it between different trusses but with the small weight of the antenna, it was easy. I know I am about 10-15 degrees off, too much north.

Reception-wise, 9,11,13 are excellent, no ghosting.
Global is good, no ghosting, but a bit grainy. I have about 25-35ft quad shield coax (to be reduced soon) then it's connected to the roof-mounted cm7777 on the VHF input. I'll see how it performs when the coax is reduced to a minimum.

I'm sure I could make it even better by better aiming, but i'm not bothering with analog reception for now, i think it's quite good as is; i think i'll only be using it next August. Attic trap is closed now !

fairiequeenArch, If we had a better clue of what you're trying to achieve, it would help. Like do you want to get WNPI and WNYF from the States ? If yes, i'd go with a 4228hd and cm7777 preamp outdoors.

I'm using a CM4228 clone mounted in my attic and pulling in the locals plus the 18.1, 18.2 and 18.3. I tried the CM4221 first and couldn't get them(pbs).

I find that pointing the antennae to get the pbs channels causes most of the analog channels to look worse.

Anyhow, I'd like to try and get fox, cbs and abc from the states. The cm7777 seems to be popular as well as the kitz. I'll probably go with the cm and report results.

Jrmclean, I think you had both, do you have a preference?

Great forum, thanks for all the info!:D

WNYF-LD (CBS/Fox) on channel 18 broadcasts with 10dB less power than PBS, from the same tower.
If adding 3dB gain by going to a 4228 from a 4221 allows you to "just get" PBS, then lowering your system noise figure by 3-6 dB by going to a low (2.2 dB) or ultra low (<1 dB) preamp may not be enough to get WNYF reliably, if you insist on keeping the antenna in the attic. Couldn't hurt to try, as the low noise amp will improve the fade margin on PBS.

If you mean CBS directly from Watertown, then you would need a VHF antenna for channel 7.

It really depends on which part of Bridlewood you are in. According to TVFool, some parts of Bridlewood can see channel 7 much better than 18 and 23 from South Colton.
And some parts are horrible for either. Posting your TVFool results will give us a better idea.

Jrmclean, I think you had both, do you have a preference?



I have the CM7777 and the KT-200. My Kitztech died after a couple months and I returned it to the US for warranty repair. While it was gone, I picked up the CM7777 and found that with the builtin FM trap my reception for locals was improved. When the KT-200 returned, I tried it out again, but it wasn't as good without the FM-trap.

Someday I may try an FM trap with the KT-200, but for now I'm happy with the Channel Master. Pulling in 28.1/28.2 is solid after dark and almost 100% during the daytime now that we're in the winter months. In the summer, it was solid all the time and I could also pull in ABC from time to time, but not reliably.

Just my opinion; the KitzTech amps are great, but you would need a separate FM-trap in this area. The CM7777 may not be quite as good at long distance reception, but it is very close and with the built in trap and the ability to mount outdoors if needed, it would be my choice.

Right now I've put the CM4228HD to the side and I'm testing out the monster AnntennaCraft Super G1483 (16 bay) from SummitSource. It hasn't "wowed" me yet, but to be fair I didn't spend much time tweaking things since it was rather cold in the attic. I'll give it more time in the spring and maybe look at mounting outside.

While it was gone, I picked up the CM7777 and found that with the builtin FM trap my reception for locals was improved. When the KT-200 returned, I tried it out again, but it wasn't as good without the FM-trap.

It could be the FM trap or it could be that the CM7777 has separate amps for VHF and UHF, preventing the strong local VHF signals from causing problems on UHF. If so, your results with the KT-200 may change in September.

Regardless, I agree that the CM7777 is an excellent pre-amp.