: ON - Kanata, Barrhaven, Nepean, West of Greenbelt - OTA
2012-01-12, 07:15 PM
We have been getting good reception for CityTV on 65-1 for the last year but for a couple of weeks now we only get the audio clear but no picture. Just an image of a little speaker in the center of the TV screen?
Then for a couple of days last week we got the picture and audio perfect on Channel 57-1. Now it is back to audio only on 65-1 and snow on 57.
Can anyone enlighten me on what may be causing this?
2012-01-12, 11:23 PM
There is configuration data that's transmitted along with the audio and video streams. Apparently some of that data is missing or bad.
2012-01-13, 01:47 PM
Please discuss that problem in the station status thread for Ottawa:
There have been plenty of messages there already.
2012-01-13, 08:18 PM
Thanks Dave. I guess they fixed it...Its all back to normal now.
2012-01-22, 06:11 PM
I'm located in Renfrew, and normally have no problem picking up CBOT and TVO. Occasionally I get CJOH, and there are a couple of french language channels that pop in and out. Tonight,however, I'm getting nothing. Anyone else having problems? Or is it my equipment?
2012-01-22, 08:50 PM
I have been getting good reception on Stations 42.1 and above.
24.1 which used to be good is now at best fair and often 4.1 fails.
since 13.1 is usually ok as is 6.1 my VHF is working and the UHF is degraded
since the fall by a lot. My location is downtown Ottawa near Carling.
2012-01-26, 11:04 PM
I am new to OTA and have spent quite some time reading this forum before cutting the cord. I live in Kanata North, Shirley's Brook area. My tvfool report is:
With an attic mounted setup - CM 7777 + CM 4228HD pointed towards HC I am able to receive all the local UHF channels. With 6.1 I had two failed attempts. First I tried a folded dipole design recommended on these forums and described here:
With this I was getting a weak signal, not being able to lock in most of the time. I then added a reflector and deflector as instructed in the design. With this setup I am able to lock the channel (SNR 22-22.5), but get pixelation artifacts quite often (about very 10 seconds).
I am looking for advice on what to do next. Is there some better DYI design that you would recommend? Or should I just shell out for a VHF lo antenna, and if so, which one would would you recommend for a attic mounted install?
2012-01-27, 09:40 AM
If you have built a proper ch 6, three element Yagi with one reflector and one director - it's going to be fairly large. Approx 5 or 6 foot long elements ? And the boom will be about that long too - I imagine.
... and you mention you've got it in the attic (?)
Any chance to give us a picture, and exact description of what you've built with some dimensions?
(yes, I took a look at the link / webside you provided ... but it would be good to see a picture or description of what you've built)
Any chance to TRY it outside at some height? See what the results are like outdoors with this antenna?
(don't kill yourself trying to climb outdoors in the snow and ice... naaa)
But the First major suggestion is an outdoor setup. In theory there should be a large improvement just by putting the antenna outdoors.
Earlier in this same Thread, on page 53, see my posts.
Post # 782 and 786. Have a look at them and try the links I provided there.
Member: Marbles00 - seems to have had some positive results on VHF with some large attic mounted loops with mesh reflectors behind them.
That might be easy to try on a Do-it-yourself test.
(and look at the other posts around on pg 53 ... one member seems to have used a CV antenna - but that is designed for VHF hi)
Ya - you might be right ... a commercially made VHF LO yagi with more gain (longer with more directors). And if you do that ... likely outdoors.
The Antenna Comparison Chart in the Forum mentions:
For VHF-LO, medium size yagi: Antennacraft Y5-2-6
For VHF-LO, Large size yagi: Antennacraft Y10-2-6
(and then there's Combo antennas, Large and medium that "do it all" but they're larger)
(cause if you're going to go to the trouble of putting antennas outdoors ... you have to think about a possible COMBO solution too, on a rotor - but it sounds like you're looking for an ATTIC install /solution / ideas for now )
What was the antenna mentioned in that other thread, specifically designed for Ch 6? Specific Channel cut Yagi. Delhi 5Y6s ? Five element Yagi designed for ch 6 ?
Or that other VHF one lots are using? Delhi VIP-302SR (?) VHF Lo / Hi (and FM if you want it)
I don't want to point you in a bad direction ...
Just a few possible ideas.
2012-01-27, 09:50 AM
Oh ya ... I should mention:
And another member simply just took some rabbit ears, calculated the optimum length for the channel of interest, extended to that length, set that up in the attic, and it worked for him.
But you may have to experiment and find the correct spot and orientation in the attic that works best. The "hotspot" for best reception of the channel of interest.
Sometimes simpler works.
Hard to imagine that simple rabbit ears would work better than what you have built - with a reflector and director ...
But I wanted to mention that ... it might be an easy test.
(Try different things with the rabbit ears, but also try and extend them out horizontally, and try that in a few different spots in the attic ... if you find a good spot - mount it and try it for awhile - see how reception is longer term.)
2012-01-27, 02:17 PM
Hi folks, I have been a passive member but I am now ready to make the switch to OTA with Netflix + Apple tv to free myself from cable.
my TV fool results (40 ft on roof)
I would like to receive all local stations + americans stations like PBS and fox.
The setup I am considering is an extreme fringe highly directionnal/ high gain antenna like CM-5020 Masterpiece Antenna aiming directly at the US stations with a preamp (the signal is -6,7 db for WCFE (PBS) and -10db/-19db for WNPI/WNYF (PBS/FOX).
WNPI and WNYF line up perfectly with herbert corner stations from my home and the Camp fortune stations are exactly 180 degrees in the opposite direction. I am certain I would get the HC station and I might get CF stations from the back lobe of the antenna? the signal coming from CF is so strong (60db) it might just come in no matter how I point the antenna.
Does this set up sound realistic in order to get both local and american channels?
2012-01-27, 02:43 PM
I tried many different combinations and i had the pixilation problem no matter what, my final solution was adding a braid-breaker. Mine is a simple loop of 6 turn of RG-6 coaxial, 4 inch diameter very close to TV input (around 10 inches). This reduced the problem to pixilation problem once every few days.
I can receive global on 6.1 with an indoor rabbit ear after this change. My current antenna is outdoor Kross 4-bay with Winegaurd AP-8700. I live in Kanata north as well, tvfool data for 6.1 is 47.0 NM(dB) , -43.8 Pwr (dbM), 0.180 KW Effective ERP. I hope this helps.
2012-01-27, 03:04 PM
Yes, the build antenna is pretty big, around 5,3 feet square. I just had to assemble it in the attic, but there is plenty of space for it. I will snap and post a photo the next time I am up there.
I looked at the design at the DIY links you pointed me to, and will investigate a bit more. From what I can see a copper tube folded dipole for channel 6 has gain of around 2.2dbi. Excuse my noobness, but what would be the gain of the twin-lead folded dipole that I made? (probably less?)
Given that commercial models have gain of around 4dbi this would help me determine if it it worth building or buying.
2012-01-27, 03:17 PM
milev_r, unfortunately you (like me) are in a bad location for receiving CIII-DT-6. While it shows up green in your TVFool report, it doesn't accurately model VHF reception. The biggest problem is impulse noise (likely generated within your home). I have a 5 element cut channel Yagi for channel 6 in my attic, but unfortunately they are out of production. You could try and add a few more directors to your antenna to see if that helps. Using a band pass filter (like a jointenna) may also help to remove off channel interference.
On failing that, about the only thing you can do is get the antenna on your roof. Not only will it give you slightly better elevation, but it will greatly enhance the signal to noise ratio by both giving the antenna a stronger signal to work with and using the roof to attenuate the impulse noise generated inside your house. I realize this isn't an option for everyone however (myself included).
2012-01-27, 03:32 PM
From what I can see a copper tube folded dipole for channel 6 has gain of around 2.2dbi. Excuse my noobness, but what would be the gain of the twin-lead folded dipole that I made? (probably less?)
Given that commercial models have gain of around 4dbi this would help me determine if it it worth building or buying.
A twinlead folded dipole should have a similar gain as a tube folded dipole. I assume that is without the reflector and director though. The reflector should add a bit less than 3dB to that and I am not sure but I seem to remember reading that one director about 1dB, so I would guess your antenna should have a gain of about 6dBi (though maybe a bit less). For comparison, my 5Y6S (http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/cutchannel.pdf) is supposed to have a gain of 7.5dBd which converts to 9.6dBi.
2012-01-27, 04:39 PM
Does this mean that an Antennacraft Y5-2-6 would not cut it (rated at 4.9db)?
2012-01-28, 08:59 PM
Just an update in case this helps someone else. I went on the attic mainly to measure if a y256 or similar antenna would fit. Cause a few of you suggested the problems might be caused by interference I thought I would try repositioining the DIY yagi. seems that moving it higher, away from the electric wiring on the floor did the trick. I still get similar SNR, but seems 100 reliable - no uncorrectable errors, so no artifacts. Thanks all for your help!
2012-01-30, 10:32 AM
milev_r, glad raising the antenna helped. Certainly getting it further away from electrical wires is always a good thing for VHF-LO. I really should do that as well (I could probably get it another foot higher).
To close the circle for other people's information, the gain Antennacraft specs for the Y5-2-6 is 4.9dBd (i.e. relative to a half-wave dipole) which converts to 7.0dBi, so in theory, it should be slightly better. Having said that, every antenna manufacturer generates their antenna specs differently and are often overly optimistic (some more than others) so it is difficult to compare between brands and sometimes even between product lines within the same brand.
2012-01-30, 02:06 PM
moving it higher, away from the electric wiring on the floor did the trick
Good news. There you go. Location can be everything.
Small changes in antenna positioning indoors or in the attic can sometimes mean alot. Finding the optimum locations (hotspots) indoors or in the Attic can mean alot.
I have gone up into the attic in the house in Kingston, experimenting with FM reception, and found similar things. Reception was best about 1 ft up from the attic floor beams. And if you try to go higher, closer to the PEAK of the attic, the reception slowly diminishes.
And of course, try to stay away from pipes and wires, vents - anything metal.
Signal trying to go through the metal siding on the outside of the house has horrible effects.
I also found placing the antenna on the side of the attic nearest where the signal is coming from - right up against that wall.
Sometimes right in the center of the attic, 1ft up from the attic floor - when the signal has to go through a slanted / shingled part of the roof.
Hard to say - must experiment. Each situation may be slightly different.
Trial and error. Indoors or in attic "all bets are off".
See how it performs in the long term. Cheers.
2012-02-02, 12:35 AM
I have been lurking around here for quite a while, but I finally put a CM4228HD/CM7777 up on my garage roof in the fall of 2011 to try out OTA. I'm located on the south side of Hazeldean in Glen Cairn and my TVFool looks good. I tried for weeks to point my antenna in a south-easterly direction, however, I could never reliably pull in WNPI. After fine-tuning for months, I pointed my antenna towards CF this weekend and I have noticed a big improvement in reception quality. My concern was that the re-pointing would have a negative affect on the channels from HC, but the signal remained high. I can pull in all of the channels from HC & CF, except for CBOFT(9)-SNR16(as indicated by my Hauppauge Signal Monitor). CFGS(34)-SNR22, CIII(6)-SNR21, & CIVO(30)-SNR20 are not as strong as all of the other channels that are received at SNR27. I now seem to have the antenna oriented in a much better direction for all channels. My antenna height is no greater than 10' as I live in an older bungalow and directly to the North there is a large commercial building that blocks my LOS to CF. Even if I raise the height another 10', I will not overcome this obstacle. I know that extra height would increase my chances of receiving US channels to the south, but I am not sure how much time I want to spend on this endeavour. Should I consider a different antenna such as the CM4221HD, given that I am no longer trying to reel in the US stations? Would something like a AD DB4e help? Would I be better off installing a set of rabbit ears for the VHF channels?
I am grateful for all of the information provided here and I have spent many hours reviewing the documentation to make educated decisions, but I am still fairly new at this hobby.
Have a great night!
2012-02-02, 07:52 AM
Hi and welcome slot47, Could you post a link to your TVFool results? It will help us advise you (we could guess from your location, but best to have the real thing).