wing, since in your case it looks like the US channels are out of reach, if you wish to stick with the Ottawa local channels, there's a few good choices.
You already report that you're getting VHF reception with this old antenna. This is very good as a starting point.
Since you don't want to spend too much & have a large angle between CF and HC, the cm4221hd might fit well for you.
You could combine the cm4221hd (for UHF) with your current old antenna (for VHF) using a UVSJ which is a special splitter meant for combining a UHF and a VHF antenna. Total spend would be around 50$+txs for the 4221 and 0$ for your current antenna. Not sure about UVSJ price, it is usually small price but you may have more trouble finding it locally. Of course there's extra costs for mounting brackets, masts... depends on what you already have.

Just realized I didn't post this. Some of this is the same as what flavoie said.

Wing, first of all I recommend posting a picture of your current antenna in the Antique, Used, and/or Mystery Antennas! (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=107706) thread and let the "experts" there decide if it is worth keeping and what it would be good for. BTW, how is your reception of Global on channel 6 with it?

Looking at your TVFool results, I don't think you will be able to reliably receive any of the American channels, so I would focus on receiving the locals.

Camp Fortune and Herbert's Corners are only 54 degrees apart so I would say a CM-4221 would be a great UHF antenna for you. As for VHF, you could either use your existing antenna or get something like a VIP-302SR.

The only other consideration is CKWS-TV-3 from Smiths Falls. The above setup may not receive it very well, but its future is unknown at this point so I wouldn't put too much effort into it, especially since most (but not all) of its programming is available on other channels.

Thanks guys, I'll look into those antennas.

Will I still need the VHF antenna after September??

I don't think my antenna is working at all, because I only get TVO (barely), CTV barely and CBC. But without an antenna (IE, cable stuck in the wall, or just a coat hanger) I get the exact same results!!

I suspect I could get much more with an actual working antenna out on the roof.

I'll get those pics if it ever stops raining and I get some time to get it down. Lucky for me it is summer and there is nothing on TV in the summer and I'm just very busy now, I haven't had a weekend free in over a month and it doesn't look good going forward a month.... so no rush on the antenna just yet.

I will update for sure though. Thanks!

Yes you will need a VHF antenna after September. Global and CJOH will be stay on the same channels (6 and 13 respectively) when they convert from analog to digital and CBOFT-DT will move from 22 to 9 (their analog channel number).

As for the picture, you don't have to take it down to take a picture for identifying it. The problems you are having may related to a bad cable or Balun than issues with the antenna itself.

CBOFT-DT will move from 21 to 9 (their analog channel number).

Roger means that CBOFT will move from 22 to 9.

Thanks tvlurker. I fixed it.

Hey all,

I setup a CM 4228 antenna on the second floor, outside on the roof. I was be able to get 4.1@97%;9.1@85%; 17.1@59%; and 20.1@88%( these are the strength meter reading off my plasma.) But I cannot get those 2 OMNI stations off manotick, interestly enough, the 17.1 should be the weakest one of these 3 station from manotick, any suggestions?

Oh, then i bought the CM7777 preamplifier, still got 4 hd stations ONLY, with some improvements on strength though(100% / 92% / 78% / 97%).

Cheers

Andrew

How do the analog stations from Herberts Corners come in? (14, 32, 60, and especially 65)

Andrew, where are you pointing the antenna ?
Could you create av fool report, put it here and compare with where you are pointing ?

Follow these steps, Andrew, so that we can assist you better:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=125161

Andrew, Depending on what side of the intersection you are, that apartment block next to the high school may be between you and CF. Even if this is the case I don’t believe that it is a problem since I know someone with a cheap 4 bay clone in his attic living in a house where CF is shadowed by that same apartment block, who is getting good results, even considering the fact that he is pointing at HC. (other than some ghosting on TVO (analog channel) Your main 'problem' is that you are in a (strong) 2 edge situation from HC. So you need to point your antenna at HC and keep your fingers crossed that you will get the strong 4.1 9.1 20.1 in from the side. If your antenna is outside with a clear view of both directions, it should be okay. To my mind an 8 bay is probably a bit of an overkill at your location, especially if you would like to rely on a side-lobe for CF. However, first point your 8 bay antenna at HC and take it from there. If you have only one TV hooked up to the antenna you should not need a pre-amp.

PS Should you be only interested in digital from CF then signal strengths of anything above 50% on your plasma should be ample. So you have lots of headroom to optimize your reception from HC – (I am using the signal strength indicator on a Panasonic Plasma as reference)

Thanks all!

tvlurker, all analog channels come in fussy.
flavoie, i pointed roughly @ 130 degree.
RamKat, yes, you are right. my neighbor's house right in my way if i pointed the dish to Manotick(attic-mounted), and the dish is about 10-12 feet away from her house.

so what i did was i moved it down to the backyard, mount on a 4x4 fence post, as you know i can always get very strong signals from CF(96%-100% on my plasma), so i turned the CM4228 more on the east, southeast side, got weaker signals from CF(4.1/9.1/20.1, all around 88%, ish), but that way i got cityhd(17.1) very strong @ 87%. omni1/2 around 56-60%.

I knew that most stations @ Manotick currently ouly half-loaded, due to the power changing/DTV testing issue, as for example /A\ is only outputing 47% of full power yesterday.

Cheers

Andrew

Andrew, Without a link to your TVFool (http://www.tvfool.com) report, it is difficult to give you very much advice. Could you please post the link here?

hi, getting ready to cancel my cable service, I ran this report on TVFool website:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5747d4fdf200d1

I entered 30' height assuming that an attic mount would be the easiest and "cleanest" installation, there is a conduit from the attic to the basement. So I have a couple of questions. . .

1/. Would an attic mount CM4221hd be appropriate (for local channels only).
2/. It seems that there is a 85 degree separation between CF and HC towers, can the one antenna pull in signal from both?
3/. Would I point it between the two?
4/. I would like the antenna feed to supply two devices - a stb tuner (kworld ATSC standalone tuner) and a SiliconDust HomerunHD. Would a good quality splitter be all I need?


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg

1/. Would an attic mount CM4221hd be appropriate (for local channels only).

The attic environment is a bit of an unknown, depending on what the builders have used to cover the surfaces facing the outside. Vinyl siding and standard builders grade shingles should be okay - the more metal in there the bigger the reduction in signal.

2/. It seems that there is a 85 degree separation between CF and HC towers, can the one antenna pull in signal from both?

Yes, point the main lobe (or at least a reasonably high gain part of it) to HC and use the side lobe to pull CF.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221az.gif

3/. Would I point it between the two?

Looking at the plot linked above you will probably be better of pointing the center of the main lobe south of HC

4/. I would like the antenna feed to supply two devices - a stb tuner (kworld ATSC standalone tuner) and a SiliconDust HomerunHD. Would a good quality splitter be all I need?

Depends on your attic attenuation situation - If the antenna was outside with a clear view in both directions, and you are only interested in Digital, I would have said yes. Splitting the signal will cause a 3.5 dB reduction in the signal. Best is to try it out. If the signal strength is marginal it is something that an antenna mounted pre-amp will fix.

thanks for the detailed reply, it is much appreciated. I had to look at the plot for a bit to understand that the max sensitivity portion of "side lobes" are bit behind the plane of the antenna, so I see that some where around 45 degrees south of HC should beclose to the "sweet spot".

I am designing this for digital reception only, even if it means paying a cable bill for three more months. Are any of the planned Ottawa dtv channels in the VHF band andout of reach of a bowtie antenna, I did review the faq's and the listings in TVFool butI am notconvinced that I really understand the difference between real and virtual channels - it seems that they are all in teh UHF spectrum?

Greg

Hi Greg
Global (6) SRC (9) & CTV (13) will be digital from CF in September
You'd need something extra for VHF if you stick with a 4221.

gwh_in_kanata, I disagree with some of what RamKat says.

First of all, I am not convinced the 4221 is your best choice. While it might work out okay, a better option would be the Antennas Direct ClearStream2. It has a wider beam width than the 4221.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/C2C4beamwidth.gif

Secondly, regardless of which antenna you pick, don't point it south of HC! That will put CF about 90 degrees off centre and in the deepest null. The only way to get CF in the "side lobe" (actually a back lobe) of the 4221 is to have it about 45 degrees south of HC, but if you are doing that, you might as well put it about 40 degrees North of HC (between the two) and get a stronger signal from CF and HC.

As flavoie mentioned, you will also need a VHF antenna to receive CTV, Global and SRC (post transition).

Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this question, but here goes.

I'm (still) looking at replacing a cheap yagi in my attic with an outdoor antenna. I was going to order the Antennas Direct ClearStream 4 from amazon.com when I realised it has a fairly restrictive beam width (35 degrees) whereas the CS2 has a 70 degree beam width.

My tvfool output is the following:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5747715de74a1c

The Camp fortune channels (at 10 degrees) come in fairly well off the side of my current yagi, but the Manotick Station ones (at 116 degrees) are sporadic, even though my antenna is pointed straight at it.

I don't want to trade one problem for another: namely, I don't want to buy a new antenna that will get me the Manotick Station channels perfectly at the expect of the Camp Fortune ones.

From my perspective there is a 106 degree difference between both towers, so does anyone have a recommendation? Should I go for the wider beam (but lower gain) of the CS2, or go for the higher gain (but narrower beam) of the CS4? Can I get the Camp Fortune channels off the side of the CS4, or will the rear reflector block them?

Thanks for any advice.

Paul

Another question: Is anybody else having trouble with CBC lately? It used to be my most reliable channel, but now that the NHL playoffs are on it decided to have issues. Both other CF HD channels (SRC and SunTV) still work great.

I first noticed it a few weeks ago when the picture would skip a frame every once in a while. It wasn't very noticeable.

Now, I get about 80% signal strength but every few seconds it drops to 0 and the picture and sound skip. It's almost unwatchable.

Nothing in my setup has changed since then (other than trees outside sprouting leaves, obviously...) Strange that only CBC seems affected, not SRC which is lower power to begin with.

Paul